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Kribensis
27th Sep 2009, 6:55 PM
I'm torn on whether this thread is appropriate for the patterns forum, so if it's not -- move it with no worries. I sort of thought it was though, because this is an issue only with patterns.

I'm figuring that anyone who releases TS3 lots to downloaders knows this scenario: you're working in CAS, and you find the perfect pattern for something. You visit a lot of content sites (if you're like me, 20 or 30)... but you simply have no way of knowing where this pattern came from. How do you track down the name to give credit?

Short of keeping some sort of manual list of stuff, or having a photographic memory, has anyone worked out a way of putting names to patterns? I don't think I am, but am I missing something in the game?

It's literally getting to the point where I don't download that many patterns anymore because I know I'm going to forget where they came from and then accidentally use them in a lot that I release here.

Zeero
27th Sep 2009, 10:21 PM
Omg, I know what you mean, I had to completely re-pattern my whole castle lot because I didn't know where the rock and fabric pattern I had used came from. There should be a little box when you put your mouse over the pattern that tells you some info or AT LEAST the name of the pattern file. Right now I'm seriously considering deleting everything I downloaded and downloading only stuff from creators I know from MTS to stop the headaches.

Loverat
28th Sep 2009, 10:37 AM
Thats the exact reason I haven't built anything for public consumption yet - don't even have a utility we can use to view the thumbnail in a package (like S2CPI) - at least you could use that to run over all the pattern packages until you found the ones you used. I do keep everything in pattern/creator folders but it ain't helping =| *kicks EA in the junk*

fluttereyes
29th Sep 2009, 11:51 PM
I did start a thread to see if anyone could work out how to put something to identify on the thumbnail but it can't be done. For this reason i've taken to making my own patterns for everything I need.

I really think an agreement should be made whereby we can all just use patterns freely, like we did with terrain paints in TS2. I would be fully willing to allow people to use any patterns I make with no credit. In fact I might start the ball rolling on that and start putting it in my downloads. If we could just agree and allow each other to just use the patterns, which really, only take a few minutes to make, life would be easier for everyone.

I just got fed up trying to work out which belonged to who so I deleted the lot of them. It's more work for me but at least I know I only have myself there and nobody can get miffed if I don't credit them.

Please pattern makers, just agree to allow people to upload patterns with lots, I'll do it first. I'm making a set of patterns as we speak and they will be up for inclusion in any downloads with no credit required when they're finished.

There will be some who will do it and some who won't. if you always make sure to only download patterns of those who allow it, then there's no problem.

Let's sort this out once and for all, terrain paints should be the same.

In fact, I'll give you all permission to use any patterns from prettysims in your lots and no credit required, just upload them with your lots if you like them, lol, if you like them.

EDIT* Done, I have now put a disclaimer on my patterns on my site and will do so on all future patterns. They can be freely uploaded with lots as long as the lots are going on free sites.

Will any other pattern and terrain paint makers join in with me on this?

DF patterns = distribution friendly

Loverat
30th Sep 2009, 4:43 PM
Heya Flutter =) Thats the best idea I think - especially when 95% of patterns made are *converted* from some other source/texture anyway - I can't see the majority of peops creating them from scratch ;) Textures I *made* for Sims2 recolouring were generally a mish-mash of existing textures I had downloaded - I'm guessing my Sims3 won't be much different. Besides, free sharing is GOOOOOOD.

Funny you should say about ditching downloaded patterns & just making your own - I am just about to do that very thing myself as I can already feel my stress levels rising just thinking about trying to keep track of creators while building. Also leaves more space for objects - Can't wait to find out how much CC I can have before the game explodes =)

Now if ALL object creators would just put their damn names on their stuff........

Kribensis
30th Sep 2009, 4:53 PM
Flutter, I completely agree.

HystericalParoxysm
30th Sep 2009, 4:55 PM
Even with that you would still need to know which files they are to include them. Permissions/credits aren't so much the issue as identifying which of the umptyjillion .packages you have contains the pattern you'd used.

They SHOULD have tooltips. In fact, all of them DO have tooltips with name and creator name (including the game's patterns themselves) - they just don't show in-game.

fluttereyes
30th Sep 2009, 5:04 PM
I agree that most of the patterns are just coinverted by other sources and the original creator of the patterns isn't usually mentioned. I do mention the original creator on my site as it's their work. I also write to them and make sure they are happy for me to do this with their patterns. One of the things I can't understand is the reluctance of some to allow people to freelyh use something they got from somewhere else anyway.

I do make some of my own too, I haven't uploaded any yet but the same thing goes, they are DF and free to use

I've started to put my site name on fences, stairs and other stuff I make as well as putting the disclaimer on the site. If we only have patterns from creators we know are (DF) Distribution Friendly, (made that up haha). Then we know we don't have to worry about naming and linking for terrain and patterns.

Its then just up to us to make sure we know which patterns to include. My suggestion there is to have a folder for sets of patterns and only use one or two sets in your creations, that way you know which ones to include with your upload.

It's really just down to the creators to say who will join me in allowing patterns and terrain to be DF. Personally I would use the patterns of DF friendly creators but if they don't want to share freely, then I won't use them. That makes it pretty simple in my eyes.

I tend to make a set of patterns for each lot I make and only have that set an maybe one other in my folder, as I zip my patterns by bundle, it's just a case of uploading the two bundles to ensure downloaders not only have the patterns included but some others to play with.

I'm thinking of limiting these bundels to say, sets of six, that will mean not burdening downloaders with too many.

Feel free to use any patterns I made now and in the future, I already have a disclaimer on my site and will put one on my profile here too. My patterns might not be the best in the world but they are free to use freely in lots.

Best way to go about spreading the word of DF stuff is to use patterns from people who are DF and mention it in uploads of lots containing the DF patterns, that way other creators will join in on it. It's so much easier to write the patterns are included and distribution friendly than to list them all.

This should and will be a personal choice for creators if they want to join in or not.


Heya Flutter =) Thats the best idea I think - especially when 95% of patterns made are *converted* from some other source/texture anyway - I can't see the majority of peops creating them from scratch ;) Textures I *made* for Sims2 recolouring were generally a mish-mash of existing textures I had downloaded - I'm guessing my Sims3 won't be much different. Besides, free sharing is GOOOOOOD.

Funny you should say about ditching downloaded patterns & just making your own - I am just about to do that very thing myself as I can already feel my stress levels rising just thinking about trying to keep track of creators while building. Also leaves more space for objects - Can't wait to find out how much CC I can have before the game explodes =)

Now if ALL object creators would just put their damn names on their stuff........

fluttereyes
30th Sep 2009, 5:11 PM
Even with that you would still need to know which files they are to include them. Permissions/credits aren't so much the issue as identifying which of the umptyjillion .packages you have contains the pattern you'd used.

They SHOULD have tooltips. In fact, all of them DO have tooltips with name and creator name (including the game's patterns themselves) - they just don't show in-game.

It's easy enough to just use one or two pattern sets in a lot then you don't have to worry about that. Lessening the sets to say 6 at a time will make that easier. Keeping good folders with seperated ets in them that you are not using will also help.

What we should have is different to what we do have and we have to work with what we have right now. I never, ever intended to make a pattern at all, yet I found I had to to save this trouble. Meaning I have had to recreate patterns other people probably already have done.

It's the easiest answer to the whole puzzle. patterns and terrain should be DF

Gangreless
30th Sep 2009, 7:43 PM
I don't know how much this will help you guys out, but, all my work is free to steal without giving me credit. I also categorize all my patterns as Miscellaneous to make them easy to find.

Kribensis
30th Sep 2009, 8:06 PM
Even with that you would still need to know which files they are to include them. Permissions/credits aren't so much the issue as identifying which of the umptyjillion .packages you have contains the pattern you'd used.

They SHOULD have tooltips. In fact, all of them DO have tooltips with name and creator name (including the game's patterns themselves) - they just don't show in-game.

Good point.

I'd be happy if I didn't have to worry about giving pattern credit on lots I upload, but being able to package custom content along with the lots would be even more ideal. And yet, as you point out, would be a whole new problem. I easily have 600 individual package files in my /mods directory at this point.

Heck, let's go one step further. The custom content implementation of TS3 is terrible. Just... terrible. It's so bloody unwieldy. Why the hell are there two kinds of content files, with only one being tracked in the launcher? What is this, a beta? CC should autopackage with lots. It should exist in one filetype flavor. Sharing should all take place in-game, like Spore, with an in-game browser. Yeah, I'd like flying cars too.

fluttereyes
30th Sep 2009, 10:26 PM
Gangreless well done for joining in on this, it's time something was done about it. It's hard for everyone.

Kribensis, if you have seperate build mods folder then there's no issue. I move stuff in and out of there as I need it. I don't need everything I have in every build, especially patterns. Like I said, organise your stuff and now that oothers are joining up on the DF thing, it should be a lot easier for us all

Kribensis
1st Oct 2009, 2:36 AM
Oh man, it would be agony now. I may have to though, because I don't PLAY much anymore... the way I use the game is build lots and upload em.

I'm ok with the really obvious ones, like some weird metal pattern... you're not going to forget that. But the stuff like "that stucco that was slightly better than the stucco that comes with the game" ... and is probably named something like 0453245_dingleberry.pattern ... ugh, man.

fluttereyes
1st Oct 2009, 12:42 PM
Oh man, it would be agony now. I may have to though, because I don't PLAY much anymore... the way I use the game is build lots and upload em.

I'm ok with the really obvious ones, like some weird metal pattern... you're not going to forget that. But the stuff like "that stucco that was slightly better than the stucco that comes with the game" ... and is probably named something like 0453245_dingleberry.pattern ... ugh, man.

I deleted all of those that only had numbers. Now I rename them if I see that. You do know this is your own fault for being so untidy dontcha hahaha.

Bite the bullet like I had to and delete them all. Then download what you really use again and get a filing system going. Remember sims 2 when all the folders were bloated and we couldn't find a thing? Well this game will be worse with the added problems of patterns

Kribensis
5th Oct 2009, 9:49 PM
It doesn't matter if one has a file system with patterns (not that it's a bad thing - it just doesn't help with this particular problem), because unless you know what pattern goes with what title / creator -- in CAS and in-game -- you're still stuck.

My solution now is to keep a running tally with a small screenshot and a label in an online notebook. Evernote (http://www.evernote.com/) is pretty good for that, because you can get a browser extension that lets you right click on an image and dump it into a note.

Probably kinda excessive for most people, but I'm a little ADD about things like this :p

And on that note, I just have a question: what .package and .sims3pack viewer / browser does everyone like? Is there one that is a consensus now? I tried Merlin, and it proceeded to ruin my .package content. Makes me a little leery to try Jfadetool (same developer).

Ideally I want to find something that lets me look inside any package or sims3pack pattern file and see what it contains. I don't need to use it to install -- I just want to look inside.

fluttereyes
7th Oct 2009, 2:32 PM
I use the one delphy made. If I'm understanding what you're looking for. Mostly though I just open it right up with s3pe and look at the files in a folder.

I don't know if you understood what i emant with the patterns. I have a seperate build mode folder. Each time I'm about to build I put what I meed in that folder just before the build. All of the patterns and cc have their own folders so I move them as I need them. It completely limits the amount you have to wade through, gives a quick load of the game and generally makes it easier to know what's in a lot.

I have a notepad in the main folder I store them in and it's a list of where everything came from complete with links and creator, this makes it easy to just cut and paste when uploading my lots.

After my build I clear the folder, then just put in what I need for my next lot, and so on

Kribensis
7th Oct 2009, 4:14 PM
Oh, I gotcha. Yeah, that wouldn't work for me. I don't always know what I'm going to use ahead of time. It's more visual for me.

I'll try s3pe for pattern viewing.

fluttereyes
7th Oct 2009, 4:27 PM
For pattern viewing, I thought you meant packages. You can open the .package with s3pe and the view the pattern with Delphy's pattern maker or the tsr one. Lol, you like to make it hard for yourself.

I try to use new stuff in my lots each time so it's easy for me. There are only a few items that I include in all my lots and I know them by heart now haha.

If you come up with a good system let me know.

I wish someone would come up with a way that cc would be included in the lot and we only had to give thanks

Kribensis
7th Oct 2009, 5:29 PM
Oh - I sort of said both in different posts, didn't I. I mainly need pattern viewing. Want to make sure I understand you; I'm going to extract files out of the .package with s3pe and then view them with the pattern-maker? That IS unwieldy. I would only do that in emergencies. (lol pattern emergency)

fluttereyes
7th Oct 2009, 9:15 PM
Not sure how else to do it to be honest. I just use s3pe and photoshop photoshop for everything, lol. I tried Melrin for installing package and it messed up. Didn't know it was a jfade tool though, I thought it was a tsr. I'm thinking there's a package viewer on here though, that Delphy made one or maybe Peter.