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gdayars 9th May 2018 12:33 AM

(was responding to Gummi... )oh I thought you posted more of it. Maybe you just referred to it as existing. "get confused in my very old age" you know. 52 :P

joandsarah77 9th May 2018 12:37 AM

I do think making a contest for beginners, and for me that means "Have you placed top 3 in a building contest before?" yes-No is a great idea for another contest, but for this one is mute. I don't think there can be any other criteria as many people have never been in a contest before and their skills may vary widely, but I am not going to judge someone's skills beforehand as I don't think that is right.

I do want to emphasise again that as a judge I can only judge what you show me in pictures and words. I don't know your thought processes. If you remove a wall and this changes the look of something, say so under the picture. If you have seen sims navigate an area say so. If you have fiddled and can't see another option for something, say so. Judges are just other sim players so we judge by what we like, they are simply our opinions, we are not trained in any way. One judge may like your work another may not, that is simply how it is and why we ask for 3 judges since one judges like/dislikes is not necessarily another judges likes/dislikes. One judge hates orange another hates red/white and black diners. It doesn't really matter, only that they judge everyone the same.

Once I get this issue of my computer sorted (and I will so help me!) and everyone has had a rest I will be posting a contest. More so it will be a decorating contest with some building rather than a building contest. A makeover of Strangetown, so keep your eyes peeled.

yavannatw 9th May 2018 12:39 AM

I will be on the lookout, Jo.

By the above criteria I am definitely a beginner and likely to remain so.

gdayars 9th May 2018 1:07 AM

ok @Justpetro I had collected back a half point on one judge, but didn't realize that the other one hadn't gotten back to me at the time. the other judge thought it was clear glass or open

I thought it had been added in. so she said to go ahead and add it back so I am giving you your half point back on the toilet thing

Justpetro 9th May 2018 1:13 AM

My final word then regarding the judges: look, I have done badly in competitions before. In fact, I had some horrible scores in several competitions. I have ended up stone last in some rounds. And I never complained - because the judges were more or less in agreement. To me, it does not make sense if 2 judges give you full marks for building skills and the third one decided to deduct a lot of points for building skills for the same lot. That is why I decided to say something.
And I honestly don't think it is so hard to understand.

That was not necessary, @gdayars but thank you anyway. The contest is over, let's go drinking

gdayars 9th May 2018 1:34 AM

@Justpetro I do want to say however, that disagreeing with someone over a judging style is one thing, but the tantrum remark was REALLY not called for in reference to Gummi and the last contest. I was going back and rereading the comments, and it really hit me, that really crossed the line. As far as Gummi's judging style, in all but the last round, she did take a harder stance across the board, then she was easier this last one, but it was her first time judging, and more importantly, she did it consistently for the same criteria across the board for everyone. I realize that as a contestant things don't always seem to be fair, but I saw Gummi's criteria ahead of time because she showed it to me, and honestly, it might have been a little hard, but she stuck with it throughout the contest, til I personally stressed theme and unique the last time (as per the description of the contest ) Then she changed hers to match. And yes her scores were often lower for most people during the contest as a whole, compared to the other judges. There were occasional exceptions, but overall she did it with consistency. There were times I disagreed with more than one judge... and put my oar in, and if they could explain it by their own criteria, even if I thought it was a bit harsh, as long as it was consistent across the board, I left it be. I figured it all evened out. We had a super easy judge, a super hard judge and a middle of the road judge, and they applied equally across the board pretty much

Back to the comment however, is that this is a contest, there is no sense in going personal on anything. I realize you were upset and venting, but just realize that our judges all put in a lot of time, and all had things going on in their personal lives as well and still did this even when they were up to their necks in proverbial hot water in life. So just be aware while I can understand that things get frustrating as a contestant.... having been there... that there was nothing personal in Gummi's judging. so please don't make it personal back I believe that an apology is really in order.

Justpetro 9th May 2018 1:51 AM

@gummilutt - I apologize for my remark. It will not happen again.

@gdayars, apologies to you as well. I do realise that judges put in a lot of time and effort.

gdayars 9th May 2018 1:52 AM

Thank you

gummilutt 9th May 2018 2:15 AM

Thank you. We're cool

On the topic of contest design and all the feedback about how it was run and decisions made, I think it's important to keep in mind that hosting is seriously stressful. I don't think it really comes across in the topic just how stressful it is. Thread moves fast, time flies, and ten different people are pulling you in ten different directions, forcing you to make decisions all the time on all kinds of stuff. I don't think it really came across just how hard gdayars worked to try and make sure you all had a good time and that you all felt felt encouraged to keep going. She's just about the nicest person you'll ever meet, which is really the reason things like extensions and edited scores happened. Because she wanted everyone to have a chance and to not lose points over small things, and she sympathized with all the madness that's happened to a lot of the judges/contestants. It all came from a place of love and inclusion

joandsarah77 9th May 2018 2:53 AM

@Justpetro I am the judge that just gave you back the half point. At the time I didn't connect the overhead bathroom pic to the side one thinking that is was clear glass. I think looking at it again now that the 'clear glass' is actually shine from the light. I was dealing with my dad in hospital then home with a fractured hip and was also looking after my mum so I was kind of distracted. (They are both good now)

For the most part I have been the middle of the road judge, but not every time, I have also been the 'tough' judge a few times. gdayars did her best to 'Americanize' my spelling lol, to make it harder to tell.

Kukamuukaanmuka 9th May 2018 3:33 AM

:lovestruc Huge Congratulations to Maxon!!! Job well done indeed! :lovestruc


and lol, thanks @yavannatw , I did indeed win something the most expensive lot :P

AND maybe also the "one who is allways VERY late" title

But yes, I am glad I was just a playalong, and loved the every lot what has posted here. And wish very much that at least some of them would be up for download (what arent allready <3 )

And for judges, it must be hard job, and actually... thank you @gummilutt that I actually did NOT needed to fill you in I was prepaired to do so , but Gina would of had a too time consuming job to "Americanize" me, than with Jo And not to mention to correct my neverending typoes :D


Best wishes,
Ellu

CatherineTCJD 9th May 2018 4:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Charmful
Cat, I might be drunk on fermented juice, or you might be - but didn't you win this contest that was a building contest that ended just last year?? I mean, I judged it...I know this wasn't just a dream...but it was a very complex building contest at that! I'd definitely call you an advanced builder


LOL! You're right! I think I was the only one left though... Does that really count? Last one standing wins? I guess it does... but I'd like to win one because my builds were actually worth it, not because I could hold my breath the longest.

ETA:
No - I went back and reviewed - there were 4 of us who stuck it out to the end: ForeverCamp, Petro, Porkypine, and me.
That contest took 5 months - no wonder I can't remember it very well. LOL! So, I wasn't the last one - I did actually build something worthwhile. Thank you, Charmful, for reminding me. I see I'm the same age as GDayars - I wonder if we've both got swiss-cheese disease?

Freelala 9th May 2018 4:46 AM

This was a wonderful contest, and I had a really good time participating in it. CONGRATS to maxon on a well-deserved win. Thank you to the judges and my fellow contestants, and a BIG thank you and a pint to gdayars who made it all possible. We have certainly had our ups and downs on this journey. You've done well. All of you. Drinks for all.


Charmful 9th May 2018 4:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by CatherineTCJD
LOL! You're right! I think I was the only one left though... Does that really count? Last one standing wins? I guess it does... but I'd like to win one because my builds were actually worth it, not because I could hold my breath the longest.


Fair enough, 1 of 4 left in that contest; JustPetro was left too! The remaining four all had formidable builds and skill. But hey, this contest had seven contestants left by the end. So it's a mix of holding your breath *and* build skill.

joandsarah77 9th May 2018 4:50 AM

@Freelala You would be a beginner in my book.

CatherineTCJD 9th May 2018 5:00 AM

Woah! Ninja'd by a lot of ya'll! I ETA'd my last post - sorry for the confusion

gdayars 9th May 2018 5:02 AM

That is an interesting idea! the mentoring contest! I will suggest that to the next victim er "host"

:P

gazania 9th May 2018 5:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by CatherineTCJD
LOL! You're right! I think I was the only one left though... Does that really count? Last one standing wins? I guess it does... but I'd like to win one because my builds were actually worth it, not because I could hold my breath the longest.

ETA:
No - I went back and reviewed - there were 4 of us who stuck it out to the end: ForeverCamp, Petro, Porkypine, and me.
That contest took 5 months - no wonder I can't remember it very well. LOL! So, I wasn't the last one - I did actually build something worthwhile. Thank you, Charmful, for reminding me. I see I'm the same age as GDayars - I wonder if we've both got swiss-cheese disease?


I was in a contest here (way, way long ago, and it apparently got sucked up in the Great MTS Disaster of 2010 or so) where only two of us finished. I won. The other person, obviously, came in second. Everyone else dropped out. Still, even though I don't think that achievements were around back then, as far as I'm concerned, I won. (And ... don't snicker too loud, please ... it was a decorating contest. A holiday one. OK ... you've seen my decorating efforts and can snicker a little!) If you stick out a contest all the way through, and you're the last of, let's say, three people, you came in third. Period. I think part of these build contests are endurance contests, too. It can be easy to come up with one build; challenging if you have to come up with four AND make a deadline. I can admit in the last two contests that there were times I looked at the requirements, and all that came in my head for days was "...........???"

And yes, I understand that judges' opinions can vary. But I also agree that it can be confusing if one judge likes something, one judge doesn't, and the third judge is split down the middle. Maybe that's the bane of a judging system. I see it on TV as well in shows such as "Chopped". One judge may think a contestant chef uses too much garlic, one thinks it's just the right amount of garlic, and one can't get enough garlic. I know how that chef feels ... darn it, how much garlic is considered a good amount? This can really be a problem if the featured ingredient is garlic. I'm not sure how to fix that. Maybe I should watch some more "Chopped" episodes.

One thing I'm thinking from this contest ... I visit faaar too boring places. I built my lots with the thought that these would be places I might actually see. I imagined places people review on TripAdvisor or AAA. "I stayed at Bill's Bungalows while going to my niece's wedding. The banquet was constantly stocked with fresh food 20 hours a day, and though the rooms were dated, they were clean and cozy, and had obviously been well-maintained. The housekeeper, though, really doesn't have to clean the shower while I'm on the toilet! Clean has its limits. And darn it, those aren't bungalows! Three and a half stars".

Now that's another interesting concept for a contest ... make a TripAdvisor-like place and use reviews to describe it. But if I would be a dismal judge, I'd be worse as a host!

I think my doctor will be OK my having just a nip of wine at the fermented juice bar.

joandsarah77 9th May 2018 6:21 AM

Cat you won that! I forgot. I still haven't decided if mine will be a beginners contest, it's mostly decorating.

gdayars 9th May 2018 6:28 AM

Cat yeah that swiss cheese disease I refer to it as the "my brain went on vacation and all I got was this lousy tshirt" condition.

joandsarah77 9th May 2018 6:40 AM

*Hunts for t-shirt.* memory is so bad she can't remember where she put that dang t-shirt.

justJones 9th May 2018 8:22 AM

I also have a contest in mind...but it's not build or decorating... I want to run a second cycle of Making Headlines. But heaven knows when, because as mentioned above, hosting is a helluva job. Still better than judging though, imo. I rarely judge my own contests anymore. Too much stress. So kudos to you all (judges and hostess).

joandsarah77 9th May 2018 8:59 AM

I had heck more work hosting but somehow still like it over judging. It's probably because I enjoy making up rules and unveiling things.

gdayars 9th May 2018 9:10 AM

I actually, once I recover, would like to have a baby/toddler photo contest. For all games.

gazania 9th May 2018 9:30 AM

One thing I would like to see would be an informal contest or a mini-contest. Not necessarily any judging or winners. Simply a prompt and a challenge. This might also help beginners get their toe in the water.

Yes, no more than one or two rounds. And while the three hours might indeed be a problem (and yes, that was my idea), 24 or 48 hours might not.

Problem is, where would that go? If in Challenges, those usually have a long list of rules. I would keep the rules simple. It's not really a Contest if there are no judges or scores. If in the Lots section, it probably would get lost. There are times where you hear crickets there for months. Admittedly, though, that would be the best place of the three to put it.

For instance, going back to Bonny Bungalow: You have been tasked to make over Bonny Bungalow for a vacation house. Pick one type of hood ... mountain, tropical/beach or Eastern ... and design the house to fit in with the aesthetics of the hood. Budget no more than 25 Simoleons. CC is fine, but should be no more than 6 items (recolors not included in the 6). You can add an extra floor if you can keep that in-budget, but the total must not exceed the 25K. You can modify the foundation or outside walls, as long as you stay in budget. You must finish by 6 PM tomorrow; your client is impatient!

I now have to focus on the fun task of trying to adapt to a personal situation, and sadly (or fortunately for those of you blessed with me in their contests), I don't think I could enter long-term contests as a contestant for the time being. Shorter mini-contests might be more up my alley. Seeing some of the situations here, perhaps it might be others' as well.

If there is a place where this is already done, please let me know. I know that there is a forum where there is a monthly build challenge sometimes (that's the one where I got soundly beaten, but yeah ... the other entries were better!) That one simply had first, second, third place. But I was thinking more informal than that.

Oh, and where ARE my manners? Congrats to maxon!

joandsarah77 9th May 2018 9:51 AM

@gazania I would suggest a social group. People who were interested could join, and do builds as they felt like it/had the time. Any contest that goes in this forum is always official.

Justpetro 9th May 2018 11:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Charmful
Fair enough, 1 of 4 left in that contest; JustPetro was left too! The remaining four all had formidable builds and skill. But hey, this contest had seven contestants left by the end. So it's a mix of holding your breath *and* build skill.


I was. I ended third Actually, I could probably convince Jo that it is not a real third place since there were only 4 contestants left. To me, though, just having lasted for the entire duration of that contest makes me feel as if I earned that 3rd place and I am quite proud of that.

Edit: @Charmful - I had no formidable building skills when I entered that contest. I learned most of my building skills right there And Phaenoh was one of the most patient people - telling us in detail what is wrong and what should be changed (and I still smile at the memory of the ridiculous wall paper ). Before that contest, I think I could make a roof higher with CFE and used MoveObjects on - both of those I learned during the Monopoly contest.

In the Monopoly contest, there was a round where we had to build an apartment and there was a 3 floor building. Some contestant asked if it would be allowed to lower the bottom floor's wall with CFE. My reaction was: You can do that? Googled CFE (I literally knew zilch about building cheats when I entered that competition). Contest host: No, you can't. Me: Deep sigh of relief.

yavannatw 9th May 2018 11:26 AM

There is a group for Maxis makeiver, using same foundation - not extending outwards. Doesn't see much activity, sadly.

joandsarah77 9th May 2018 1:32 PM

See, there is always and I do mean always something that gets overlooked when setting contest rules. In fact, it's an unwritten rule that your rules will be tested by the wheels falling off them at every turn. I was saying to Gina next contest I will make very KISS (keep it Simple Stupid) and said, 1-3rd place, what could be easier... *scrunches up that page and tosses it away*

Justpetro 9th May 2018 1:45 PM

Keep it Straight and Simple aka KISS - an actual (tiny) political party here

justJones 9th May 2018 2:45 PM

Actually @gazania, that is something I've given some thought to before and considered if there was a way I could work it into the challenge forum. Because you are correct, it would not currently get approved there. But it's something I've had a little conversation with a couple other staff members about. And something I may still try to add, a sort of Tumblr style challenges thing. Short build prompt type things and/or sim prompts or something.

And yup, @Jo, I've hosted I'm not actually sure how many contests, but plenty, and still have to fiddle with rules, at least a little, every time

Yvelotic2001 9th May 2018 2:56 PM

I only have a few minutes before class, so I'll leave my (somewhat) thorough review of the contest for a later occasion. For now, congratulations Maxon for winning and congratulations to contestants and playalongs for some really good builds!
Thank you judges for taking the time to judge and thank you gdayars for hosting an interesting contest.

justJones 9th May 2018 4:55 PM

Pssst... @gazania... over here It's almost what you wanted, though no deadlines.

gazania 9th May 2018 5:14 PM

(Perks ears.)

Oh ... ? I will probably not enter every one, but this looks quite interesting indeed.

Question, though. Can you use CC, as long as you attribute?

justJones 9th May 2018 5:27 PM

That would depend on the individual challenge. I would assume most would allow unless they say otherwise. Also since it wouldn't be an upload, just pics, credits wouldn't be required.

Oh...or do you mean if you make a challenge involving say, a custom lot, that would be ok too and yes, would require credit.

CatherineTCJD 9th May 2018 7:34 PM

Good morn- erm... afternoon.

GDayars and Jo - I searched all night for that T-shirt. It must be in the laundry... or in the 'outgrown' pile.

I woke up with "Beginners" still running around in my brain. Discussed it with hubster over our morning coffees. And feel I must voice my concerns one . more . time...

The thing of it is: you can't police a contestant's background. You just can't. Therefore, it is not 'fair' to limit/bar contestants. (You may be able to get away with limiting contestants in more advanced levels by having prerequisite contests that they must have placed in the top 5 (or whatever). BUT, I think that is too cumbersome, and many wouldn't bother.)

There is absolutely no way to set completely equal/level terms that determine a beginner builder AND find a group of 10 to 15 of them who are interested in committing to a contest.

The solution lies with the judging. You can control how the judges judge - I'm not talking about each judges personality and what they bring to the table themselves, that must remain subjective and is why 3 judges are necessary. I mean the criteria/guidelines that they are expected to judge by. Isn't there a breakdown somewhere of what's considered beginner building techniques, intermediate level techniques, and advanced techniques? A beginner contest should center around those 'beginner' techniques. If a contest is geared for beginners - no one should be marked down for building a simple build that meets the round's requirements - likewise advanced techniques should not get extra consideration. If a contest is geared toward intermediate builders - each build should be required (and it should be stated in the contest rules) to have a little CFE in it somewhere, or be marked down for the lack thereof. Advanced level contests should have even more build techniques expected in each build; determined and stated plainly in the rules, of course.

I think a lot of unnecessary bad vibes and stress can be eliminated if the judges criteria/rubrics/guidelines sheet was posted for all to see - before building starts. AND, if each judge introduced themselves in the beginning of the contest by stating what else they will be looking for in each build, if they have any little pet-peeves to watch out for, etc.

Justpetro 9th May 2018 8:10 PM

There is no way that one can ever be 100% sure if a contestant is a beginner - I do agree with that. Yet trust has to be involved. And some of the simmers have been around on MTS long enough so that most of us know where we would classify them.

The alternative is very easy - do not call it a beginner's contest to begin with. Just say the contest is open for anyone.

The Monopoly contest was open for everyone and beginners was never mentioned. I thought it may teach me something about building, and that is why I entered. And it did teach me enough to qualify for the Urban Revival contest, where you actually had to have done something before the contest in order to qualify.

Edit: I feel I have to say this. Cat - for all her complaining about orange - has always, in my view, been quite fair, even when I presented her with very a very orange picture story in a contest as well as a rather orange house (Knowing full well that she does not like it) much later And she likes orange drinks

gdayars 9th May 2018 9:03 PM

Well hmmmm valid points... I think a bit more thinking will have to be done on this subject. Perhaps we should offer simple, intermediate, and complex style building required, and that way if a beginner wasn't ready for complex they could stick to the other versions. and like you said, just not give extra credit for going beyond the style it was designed for (except complex) However, if a beginner wants to enter a complex style one, they have to realize no one will give them a break because you are a beginner.

CatherineTCJD 9th May 2018 9:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gdayars
Well hmmmm valid points... I think a bit more thinking will have to be done on this subject. Perhaps we should offer simple, intermediate, and complex style building required, and that way if a beginner wasn't ready for complex they could stick to the other versions. and like you said, just not give extra credit for going beyond the style it was designed for (except complex) However, if a beginner wants to enter a complex style one, they have to realize no one will give them a break because you are a beginner.

Thank you. YES. I'm mashing the 'agree' button over and over again .

Cheers, Petro - I'm having an orange martini in honor of your build. I remember it well.

yavannatw 9th May 2018 10:16 PM

A beginner could be classed as someone who hasn't entered a building contest before. Simple. Open to all should not be stated as beginners.

Justpetro 9th May 2018 11:10 PM

I don't think anyone who feels that they could win a more complex competition would enter as a beginner. And some players may prefer the challenge rather than being in a beginner's competition as well.

Of course, I don't know, but in flower arranging, you often see new faces entering the intermediate or advanced categories - nobody has to start as a beginner, but once you have won enough arrangements in a competition (and that is any competition in the country), you have to move on. And some of the newbies do well, since they have been learning flower arranging from a mother or an aunt or attended some courses in their areas. Some may also take a bit long to win and actually decide that they think they are ready to go to the next level. That is allowed.

There has to be trust, though, and personally, I don't know why anyone would pretend to be a beginner - it is probably nice to win a building contest (I don't know ), but it is not as if you are going to go home with a bag of money or going to be promoted or get a new job or something when you do. And I think most normal people would like to feel that they deserve the win.

So I think a rule like Jo suggested (placed 3rd or higher before) is actually a good start just to have something to work on. I really do not think it is necessary to make it too complicated; decide on a definition for a beginner and stick to that. Not everyone may think it is perfect, but you can never please everyone - as long as the decision is made and then kept to, it will be fair. And as long as nobody who is actually defined as a beginner, being forced to take part as a beginner, I don't think there will be too many unhappy players.

Edit: not entering a building competition before - I am not sure that is fair, since some competitions are easier than others, but it could also work. As I say, once a beginner is defined, just make it a rule and stick to it.
.

joandsarah77 10th May 2018 12:11 AM

@Justpetro That's a much nicer option. I'm not a fan of the word stupid which is why I always refer to our other sims 2 thread as silly questions.

@CatherineTCJD Since Sarah is only 16 she doesn't qualify for a t-shirt. *Takes it back and tells her to stay in her own closet* Actually she wouldn't be caught dead in my closet well unless she was pinching a scarf.

I still like my idea of beginner contests. Perhapes though it needs to be amended to say the contest must have ended with at least 5 contestants. Added to that I would also say a person must not have had a lot featured. Both of these can be checked upon and doesn't just rest with the persons' honesty.

Justpetro 10th May 2018 12:28 AM

I like ending 3rd or higher in a competition - and since I was the one that ended 3rd when there were only 4 contestants left, I can assure you that I have no intention of taking part as a beginner I worked very hard in those last rounds and I received very high scores and I think my 3rd place was earned I was joking when I said earlier that I could talk you out of that - I never had any intentions to

joandsarah77 10th May 2018 12:35 AM

That's fine Petro, but I still think it's a valid point that the contest has to end with more than 3 people and 5 seems like a decent number. If I do a real beginner contest maybe you might like to be a judge? The contest that I am planning right now will be open so mute point.

This beginner contest is on my list and ideas are formulating. :D

Justpetro 10th May 2018 12:41 AM

I am afraid to be a judge, but then, sometimes one has to take up a challenge too, so yes A beginner's contest would be a good place to start, I think, as a judge too .

joandsarah77 10th May 2018 12:45 AM

You get a badge for it... I think for that contest judges would be more between judge and mentor.

Justpetro 10th May 2018 12:53 AM

Hehe I would have done it anyway, but a badge sounds good!

Charmful 10th May 2018 1:46 AM

I had the fever to host, so I wrote up a template but then I realized...I don't want the stressssss just. quite. yet.

CatherineTCJD 10th May 2018 1:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by joandsarah77
Since Sarah is only 16 she doesn't qualify for a t-shirt. *Takes it back and tells her to stay in her own closet* Actually she wouldn't be caught dead in my closet well unless she was pinching a scarf...

OMG!!! Proof that my brain is seriously Swiss Cheesed ATM! Ya know, when I typed 'Sarah' I thought it felt strange. Duh, of course I know you are Jo *how embarrassing!*

I want to host a contest - but I'll wait until Jo's done her next one

justJones 10th May 2018 2:25 AM

*cackles maniacally at all the silly people who think they want to host a contest*

Just kidding, sort of, lol. Obviously, go for it. I just always think I feel like hosting one and then by the end of the second round I'm like "Oh for the love of Christmas! What was I thinking?!" But it's good to see so much potential life in the contest forums. I don't suppose any of you folks ideas are for contests for all three games are they? Because that would be great! I can't remember the last contest that was for only 3 or 4 (I don't think there's actually ever been a just 4). There are definitely more ts2 contests than the other two games, so contest for all three are always nice.

Charmful 10th May 2018 2:47 AM

Mine could probably extend to the other games - It's based on on color pallettes, designs, and images

maxon 10th May 2018 3:18 AM

Quote: Originally posted by yavannatw
A beginner could be classed as someone who hasn't entered a building contest before. Simple. Open to all should not be stated as beginners.

That would have made me a beginner for this contest - it's the only one I've ever entered. I still think asking people what level they'd like to go in at would work - as long as we all agree to accept whatever level it is.

yavannatw 10th May 2018 4:39 AM

Yeah, it's trucky. But I think we know who the experienced builders are.
As I said before, I will forever remain a beginner if you have to get in the top 3 to get beyond that. I can't see myself winning anything.

joandsarah77 10th May 2018 7:17 AM

Not if the top three can't enter, then it would be a new top three from those who are more intermediate.

Karen Lorraine 10th May 2018 10:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by justJones
*cackles maniacally at all the silly people who think they want to host a contest*

Just kidding, sort of, lol. Obviously, go for it. I just always think I feel like hosting one and then by the end of the second round I'm like "Oh for the love of Christmas! What was I thinking?!" But it's good to see so much potential life in the contest forums. I don't suppose any of you folks ideas are for contests for all three games are they? Because that would be great! I can't remember the last contest that was for only 3 or 4 (I don't think there's actually ever been a just 4). There are definitely more ts2 contests than the other two games, so contest for all three are always nice.
It is quite hard to host a contest for all three games, I have done it. You need a judge from each game really as well. It's also quite hard to find joint contests on the forum.

Justpetro 10th May 2018 10:50 AM

You are making it too complicated again. (@maxon; @gdayars; @yannawatw; @joandsarah77)

A beginner is defined and anyone who meets this definition is allowed to enter as a beginner - NOT forced. If you think or know you are good enough for intermediate/advanced, you can enter there. (We do build because it is a challenge after all).

A beginner has to move to intermediate after winning or placed in the top 3 - but can move to intermediate any time when feeling ready to do so (same with intermediate).

Now (sorry for bringing up flowers again ) - in flower arranging - the system has worked for years. Of course when there is a new face, nobody knows what the person is already capable of - but most of them do go to intermediate right away if they are good enough, and even to advanced/open. And you can win the beginners only once anyway, then you have to go to the next level. It is simple, it works and I have never heard complaints about the system.

Edit: Although I regard myself as intermediate - I would probably enter the advanced category, because, personally, I would prefer being challenged over winning and a sticker (and I may not win the intermediate anyway). But there are true beginners out there, and they see how the winning entries look, and they do not think that they would stand a chance against some of the top builders here, so they will never enter; and they are unhappy about anyone being allowed to take part when a contest is called a beginner's contest and top builders are allowed to enter it anyway. And in my opinion, a beginner's contest, besides giving a beginner a chance to win something, would be a very good learning curve for new builders or players who want to improve their building skills.

There are often questions on the forum about how to improve building in games, especially from newer players (the UC is still given out and we still get brand new ones) - that would give them an opportunity to learn as well eg: http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=611587

AndrewGloria 10th May 2018 2:38 PM

I have a habit of wanting to post to contest threads just after the thread has closed, so I realise I'd better be quick if I want to post in this one (where I haven't even played along). May I also beg your indulgence by turning the topic back to Cat's magnificent rendering of the Alamo, and the effect it had on me of reawakening some very early childhood memories. (I saw the 1955 Davy Crockett film probably even before I started school.) I refer back to posts on pages 51 and 52 of this contest.

Firstly may I say, Cat, that your first picture of the interior of the mission church is, IMHO, the most convincing picture of a Sims building I've ever seen. On first seeing it I thought it must be a picture of the real Alamo mission church. Only when I saw the next picture, with a Sim in what was recognisably the same church, did I realise it musty be your Sims church. Where did you get the "arches" you used for the roof vaulting?

Quote: Originally posted by Peni Griffin on 26th April 2018
All this contributes to the thing I love best about living in San Antonio, the sense of history as daily life and daily life as history.
I like to think that my Sims feel the same way about Veronaville. That's why they put up with the sometimes considerable inconvenience of living in a 400-year-old house.
Quote: Originally posted by Peni Griffin
I can't help it, truly. Just be glad I made my saving throw against telling Crockett's death story, which is far far more complex and tragic than it is in the movies. That's standard for Texas history - fiction tends to simplify it and make it far less interesting and meaningful.
Oh please Peni, tell me how my childhood hero really died. I saw the Disney version before I started school, so I think I'm ready to learn the truth now. (I must say that, aged 4 going on 5, the Disney version quite impressed me. How else would I still remember it?)

Peni Griffin 10th May 2018 3:27 PM

The Story of the Alamo is way, way off topic, especially now that the contest is over; so I'll PM you soon, Andrew.

CatherineTCJD 10th May 2018 5:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by AndrewGloria
...Firstly may I say, Cat, that your first picture of the interior of the mission church is, IMHO, the most convincing picture of a Sims building I've ever seen. On first seeing it I thought it must be a picture of the real Alamo mission church. Only when I saw the next picture, with a Sim in what was recognisably the same church, did I realise it musty be your Sims church. Where did you get the "arches" you used for the roof vaulting?

Thank YOU, Andrew

For the Gothic arches I used these: http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=388188
and these: http://themedievalsmithysims2.blogs...ess-pillar.html

gdayars 10th May 2018 5:55 PM

Actually at this point I think the whole thing is about ready to be closed but have kept it open so we could discuss the beginner contest concept.

Otoh.... I would like to know how he died too so feel free to tell it here @Peni Griffin or add me to a pm :p

I won't close it till this weekend just so we can iron out the contest stuff and what people think about beginner concepts. After that if we need to discuss it further perhaps a thread somewhere else or a social group for contests would be good?

Peni Griffin 10th May 2018 8:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by gdayars
Actually at this point I think the whole thing is about ready to be closed but have kept it open so we could discuss the beginner contest concept.

Otoh.... I would like to know how he died too so feel free to tell it here @Peni Griffin or add me to a pm :p


Only because the host asked:


gdayars 11th May 2018 2:21 AM

Santa Ana was a barbaric individual with no honor.

AndrewGloria 12th May 2018 2:41 AM

Thanks Peni! If anything, your information has given me a higher opinion of Davy Crockett than I had before. But it's lowered my opinion of Santa Ana. I don't think I'd realised just how unpleasant a character he was.

Contests? I think the one I enjoyed most was the Monopoly Game Town contest, the only one where I was a full contestant rather than a play-along. I liked financial side of it. I liked working to produce designs that would produce a healthy return for the construction company. For me too, my decision to make two of my favourite Sims, Andrew Jones and Julian Moltke from Veronaville, the directors of the company, greatly increased my enjoyment, because it meant that I was working for them, and I could imagine meetings with them where we discussed design points and company policy. And at the end it was a bonus to be able to share the company's closing balance of over 400,000 Simoleons between them. if d_dgjdhh (or anyone else) ever runs a similar contest, it might be an idea to give a bit more weighting to the build quality, as I sometimes felt that the scoring gave a bit too much advantage to bean-counters and box-tickers like me over master builders like Jo.

joandsarah77 12th May 2018 2:56 AM

I'm no master builder Andrew! Intermediate I would say lol. I hope you might like the contest I am doing up now Andrew, the Strangetown makeover. If I can get my smooth edges back so I can take some pictures.

gdayars 12th May 2018 3:47 PM

I can take pictures if you like Jo.

Duine 12th May 2018 4:36 PM

Doubt I could ever be a judge, I'd probably give the highest score to everyone for showing us how far the game can be taken. If it's ok, I have a suggestion for a contest. This could be a teaching type, since not many seem to be creating for it. Using Mootilda's Lot Adjuster, and/or or CC mini lots (I think it's more the LA) and creating 1 to 2 level homes, while utilizing space to give sims comfortable, yet efficient homes. I use these almost exclusively and have learned how to make them with no routing problems, very high environment scores, low cost to buy, yet furnished with skilling objects and furniture for 1 to 8 sims living comfortably. A contest like this could be a great way for others to learn and the award could be something on the idea of a 'teacher' type sticker. The limit on cost to build could be according to how much simoleans would be gained from Create A Sim. Could start at 1 or 2 sims, then 3, 4 and so on. To be fair to contestants, probably no CC.

Haven't attempted the lot adjuster, that's on my future list after I get moved, finish up some medical testing and get 2 needed surgeries. I'll then be able to afford a few fixes on the pc and get back to playing. (:

joandsarah77 13th May 2018 7:02 AM

Quote: Originally posted by gdayars
I can take pictures if you like Jo.


Thanks Gina, if I don't get this fixed by the end of next week I will take you up on that offer.

maxon 13th May 2018 12:49 PM

I could help on that sort of contest Duine but I couldn't host since I have little experience of taking part in and judging contests.

gdayars 13th May 2018 11:31 PM

About to be closed Happy Mother's Day!


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