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College Tuition and Student Loans

by kestrellyn Posted 25th Jun 2018 at 12:48 AM - Updated 12th Aug 2021 at 2:03 AM by kestrellyn
151 Comments / replies (Who?) - 23 Feedback Posts, 2 Thanks Posts
Updates:
  • New version that works with Cyjon's Semester Changes. See Hack Compatibility section for more details.
  • Interest no longer accumulates on community lots.
  • Expanded functionality after long discussion in thread
  • Added option to change tuition cost after token creation
  • Fixed a bug related to paying off student loans with grants when no payee or sponsor was selected
  • Interest should no longer accumulate in vacation hoods
  • Now possible to initialize token with 0 simoleons
  • Added option to move money around in multiples of 100
  • Added initialization options up to 80k (9,999 per semester)
  • Can now display up to 200 sims when selecting payee/sponsor or inheriting tokens
  • Fixed bug in most recent version of collegetuition+semesterchanges
  • Fixed integer overflow error that could cause an error when calculating interest for very large loans
  • Added new version compatible with Lazy Duchess's University Exam Fail Chance mod
  • Added compatibility patch for use with InTeen
  • Fixed bug with inheriting student loans when you also had student loans

Do your sims have too much money? Do you want to share the joys of student loans with them? Do you already charge them college tuition, but have to keep track of who has paid and who is in debt in a spreadsheet outside of the game? With this hack, the game will charge tuition and track loans for you.

The basic idea: each sim you wish to be responsible for paying tuition is given a token that tracks their college fund, their student loan debt, their tuition rate, and various other things. This is a token you manually assign to particular sims, it is not given out automatically at any point. Sims with a token will be automatically charged tuition at the end of every semester - if the sim has not saved enough money in their college fund to pay for the tuition, it will accumulate as student loan debt. If a sim voluntarily drops out, they will be charged tuition for the semester they didn't complete. Debt, college funds, and tuition bills are tied to particular sims rather than families, allowing your to better control who gets saddled with the debt.

To assign tokens and set up college funds, you need to buy the College Tuition Management Object, which looks like Professor Von Ball and is available from the buy catalog in Misc/Misc for 1 simoleon.



Professor Von Ball has the following interactions:





Initialize

Available to any sim without a token. You will be able to choose a multiple of 10,000 simoleons from 10,000 to 80,000. For sims who are young adults or younger, this represents the total cost of an 8-semester college education (note that you can attend college for more or fewer than 8 semesters if you get on academic probation or drop out, and thus pay a different amount over all). (Note: if you initialize a young adult or younger with 80,000 simoleons, their semesterly tuition will be only 9,999 instead of 10,000. Adults and elders will accumulate the full 80k in debt.) It is possible to initialize the token with 0 simoleons; in that case, the sim will not pay tuition, and none of the functions to move money around in "semesters" of tuition will function unless the total cost of education is changed later on.

For adult and elder sims, this amount is initialized as that sim's student loan debt (and the presumed cost of that sim's former education). When initializing adult and elder sims, you may also choose initialize the loan as a regular loan from another sim. The money will be transferred from the loaning sim's family funds to the current sim's family funds and will be tracked on the token as a debt.

Tuition per semester

This is just a static disabled option visible for young adults and younger, which shows the currently selected sim's semesterly tuition.

Change total education cost

Young adults and younger can use this option to change their total (eight-semester) education cost without having to delete the token and reinitialize it.

Add to college fund

Allows young adults and younger to add money from family funds to a college fund for this particular sim, which is reserved for paying tuition in the future. The college fund can accrue interest if an interest rate greater than zero is set, so it is beneficial to start saving early! You can add money in hundreds from 100 to 900 simoleons at a time, in thousands from 1,000 to 10,000 simoleons at a time, or add money in "semesters" - so, if your semester tuition is 2,500, you can add 2,500, 5,000, 7,500, etc. at a time.

Withdraw from college fund

Anyone can at any time withdraw money from their college fund, if they still have any. You can withdraw in the same amounts as you can add it, or your can just withdraw it all.

Pay back loans

Anyone who has student loans can pay them back from family funds. You can pay them back in the same amounts as you can add to the college fund, or you can pay them all (if you can afford it). Student loans can accumulate interest, too.

Forgive loan

You can choose to forgive all or part of your sim's loan with this option.

Designate Payee

You can designate any living, playable, adult or elder in the neighborhood to be a particular sim's payee - meaning that they will be sent your sim's tuition money as it is paid. Unfortunately this money does not count towards total money earned/personal wealth, because apparently you can't add to that if the sim is not on the lot, for some reason. It's probably just as well, since it would make the "earn $100,000" LTW trivial. If you've set the payee to someone, you can clear the the payee by clicking the option again and then cancelling the dialog.

The payee is paid in the following contexts:
  • Tuition was successfully paid from the sim's college fund.
  • Student loans were paid back from family funds.
  • A semester grant was used to pay back student loans (more on this below).

Designate Sponsor

You can designate a sponsor (or clear the selection by cancelling the dialog) in the same way as the payee. The sponsor is a third party who is not affiliated with the university, and thus does not benefit directly from tuition payments, who will pay any tuition that your sim cannot afford, at the cost of your sim becoming indebted to them the same way they would have become indebted to the payee. This is useful if you want the payee to always be paid, even if the sim cannot afford it, or if you want a moneylender sim who earns interest on loans but does not receive tuition payments. If no sponsor is set, the payee is paid in the circumstances described in the payee section. If a sponsor is set, it works like this:

Whenever tuition is billed:
  • If the student can afford it, the money goes to the payee.
  • If the student can afford some of it, they pay what they can and the rest is paid by the sponsor directly to the payee. The student accumulates the rest as loans.
  • If the student can afford none of it, the sponsor pays the full tuition directly to the payee and the student accumulates the money as loans.

If there is no payee, the money they would get simply disappears.

When paying back loans, if the sim has a sponsor, the sponsor will receive the payment, otherwise it will go to the payee.

Borrow money

Sims who don't have a college fund can directly borrow (maybe additional) money from either their sponsor (if they have one) or their payee (if they have a payee but not a sponsor). The money is transferred directly to the sim's family funds from the sponsor/payee's family funds, and is accumulated as debt on their token.

Semester grants go to family funds/Semester grants go to college fund or student loans

This option will flip between the two possible strings when you click it. When it reads "Semester grants go to family funds", then the grants you get at the end of the semester for good grades will go to family funds as with the unmodified game - when it reads "Semester grants to go the college fund or student loans", those grants will instead go into your college fund (if you don't have student loans) or to pay student loans (if you do). The grant is processed before tuition is billed, so it can be used to pay for the same semester in which the sim earned it. Note that any student who gets straight As can pay for nearly 10,000 simoleons of tuition this way (at the expense of not having any spending money while at college). This setting shouldn't affect the semester grants' contribution to total earned money/personal wealth. They will be counted as earned either way.

Inherit student loans

If you have a sim who will die with unpaid student loans (or already has) you can have another sim inherit their loans, so that the account doesn't just disappear with the sim. You can choose any playable sim in the neighborhood, living or dead, to inherit loans from as long as they have outstanding loans. Another way you can use this is to allow a rich relative to pay off one of your sims' student loans.

If the inheriting sim does not have a token, they will be given a new one, using the same tuition rate, interest rate, and payee/sponsor as the other sim.

If the inheriting sim does already has a token: first, any college fund the inheriting sim has will be used to pay the other sim's student loan debt, payable to the other sim's payee. If that does not pay off all of the debt and the inheriting sim does not have a payee/sponsor set, they will also inherit the other sim's payee/sponsor. Otherwise they do not inherit any other part of the other sim's token.

After the inheritance, the token will be removed from the sim that was inherited from.

Note about payees and sponsors: the sim who is transferred will be the one to whom loan payments go (so, the sponsor if they exist, otherwise the payee). They will be transferred as the inheriting sim's sponsor only if the inheriting sim has neither payee nor sponsor and they inherit debt.

Set interest rate

You can set an interest rate that determines how quickly money in the college fund and student loan debt increase. This controls interest for both (since you can't have both at the same time). Interest is accumulated every night between 3 and 4 AM by everyone except young adults, who do not accumulate interest on either student loans or college funds. You can always set the interest rate to 0% (the default) if you don't want it.

Remove tokens

You can remove tokens from either the currently selected sim, all sims, or all dead sims using this option, which is always available.

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Game Compatibility

This hack requires University, and also at least one expansion that is OFB or later.

Hack Compatibility

This hack is mostly made up of self-contained custom objects, but it does override a few resources: BHAV 0x200C in group 0x7F17E3A4 (which controls what happens at the end of a semester) and text list 0x12F in that group, and BHAV 0x1000 in group 0x7F3FDB15 (which controls what happens when a sim drops out), and a new text list 0x12F that I created for that group. Any hack that modifies these same resources will conflict.

One that conflicts is Ancient Highway's hack that makes term papers required in order to earn a grade better than a B+ - if you have that hack, use collegetuition+termrequired.zip and make sure my hack loads after Ancient Highway's. Let me know if you discover other conflicts and I will try to accommodate them.

Another hack that conflicts is Cyjon's Semester Changes. If you use this hack, get collegetuition+semesterchanges.zip and make sure my hack loads after Cyjon's. Semester Changes makes it so that instead of having semesters, your sims pass a whole year at once and only take finals/get grants/etc. at the end of every year. With my hack and Cyjon's together, you will be billed tuition for two semesters at a time at the end of each year. You will also be billed for a full year's tuition if you drop out.

This also conflicts with Lazy Duchess's University Exam Fail Chance. If you use that hack, get collegetuition+ld_uniexam and make sure the college tuition hack loads last.

There is a conflict with this hack and InTeen. To use this hack with InTeen, download the collegetuition_inteen_compatibility patch and make sure it loads after both this hack and the InTeenimator_B package.

Problems and bugs

If you experience a situation where a sim returning from a final exam does not advance the semester and they are still listed having to take the final exam, do the following:
  1. Check the status of the student's token using Professor Von Ball: note their semester tuition, their college fund or student loan debt, their payee and sponsor, and where their semester grants are going.
  2. Enter debug mode by typing ctrl+shift+c and then "boolprop testingcheatsenabled true".
  3. Send the student to their final exam once again. After they come back, you should get a popup about an error log. Note where the game says the error log is stored. Click "reset" to exit the popup.
  4. Exit the game, and find the error log. It should be in My Documents/EA Games/The Sims 2/Logs/. Post the stack trace from the error log (the first part, before where it says "global simulation variables") in the discussion thread, along with the information you got from Professor Von Ball about the token.

Thanks!

Special note about the custom objects

The fallback GUIDs of all of the custom objects have been set to 0x0, so there should be no problems with them turning into something unexpected when you remove the hack.

Acknowledgements

The code of the following hacks helped me and/or inspired me while I was making this:

Cyjon's Loan Jar
Paladin/SimWardrobe's Checkbook
Pescado's Autonomycontrol

You must have the expansion or stuff packs listed below installed to use this custom content. Please see the post text for any exceptions.

Sims 2 University
Key: - File was updated after upload was posted
Filename - Tip: You can click the magnifying glass to see the archive contents Size Downloads Date
collegetuition+ld_uniexam.zip | Compatible with Lazy Duchess University Exam Fail Chance

Size: 68.9 KB · Downloads: 179 · 12th Aug 2021
68.9 KB 179 12th Aug 2021
collegetuition+semesterchanges.zip | Compatible with Cyjons Semester Changes

Size: 69.0 KB · Downloads: 897 · 12th Aug 2021
69.0 KB 897 12th Aug 2021
collegetuition+termrequired.zip | Compatible with AncientHighways Term Paper Required

Size: 68.9 KB · Downloads: 476 · 12th Aug 2021
68.9 KB 476 12th Aug 2021
collegetuition.zip

Size: 68.7 KB · Downloads: 1,442 · 12th Aug 2021
68.7 KB 1,442 12th Aug 2021
collegetuition_inteen_compatibility.zip | Compatibility patch for use with InTeen

Size: 601 Bytes · Downloads: 248 · 4th Jan 2021
601 Bytes 248 4th Jan 2021
Don't forget to Thank the creator after downloading! Use the Thanks button located above the screenshots above.
Basic Download and Install Instructions:

1. Download: Click the download link to save the .rar or .zip file(s) to your computer.

2. Extract the zip, rar, or 7z file.

3. Place in Downloads Folder: Cut and paste the .package file(s) into your Downloads folder:
  • Origin (Ultimate Collection): Users\(Current User Account)\Documents\EA Games\The Sims™ 2 Ultimate Collection\Downloads\
  • Non-Origin, Windows Vista/7/8/10: Users\(Current User Account)\Documents\EA Games\The Sims 2\Downloads\
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  • Mac x64: /Library/Containers/com.aspyr.sims2.appstore/Data/Library/Application Support/Aspyr/The Sims 2/Downloads
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151 Comments / Replies (Who?) - 128 Feedback Posts, 21 Thanks Posts
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Theorist
Original Poster
#51 Old 28th Jul 2018 at 11:42 PM
Well, that's nothing to do with this mod, but here's an idea: put this file in your downloads folder, and run HCDU. Most probably the mod that causes this will be the one that conflicts with this file (TEST.package).
Download - please read all instructions before downloading any files!
File Type: zip TEST.zip (941 Bytes, 8 downloads)
Site Helper
#52 Old 30th Jul 2018 at 12:12 AM
That was very kind of you to whip up for me! Thank you.

Unfortunately, HCDU showed no conflicts with that package. I had been worried that it must be something hidden in the parameters that HCDU doesn't check...ugh, though, to have that confirmed.

So I did the 50/50, and based on half a dozen restarts after restoring each time from save, only one mod set so far seems to reliably be correlated with my no-customers bug whenever installed: PBK's Fetch Water.

That actually doesn't make any sense either, for some reasons I'll spoiler here---only for anyone who's curious anyway, because those aren't relevant to your mod. The good news here is that based on my 50/50, your mod alone does not cause the no-customers bug, and even if it is somehow involved in the complex interaction that seems to be causing it, that all seems pretty specific to my game and my particular mix of mods, so unlikely to happen to others. Thus, I have gone back to edit my first mention of that in this thread to make that clearer earlier for other readers! Really appreciate your help with the matter.



Edit to add: so far, what I can say from actual playtesting of your mod is that the token does indeed seem nice and stable, even with mods being yanked out and put back in. Thank you, thank you, thank you already for making a finance mod that does that.
Theorist
Original Poster
#53 Old 30th Jul 2018 at 9:56 PM
Well, it is failing when it tries to get shopping tokens, so if you have something that modifies shopping tokens that might be a place to start? Does that hack cause the error when it's the only CC installed? If not, you could try a 50/50 always leaving that hack in.
Lab Assistant
#54 Old 31st Jul 2018 at 4:58 PM
I have a dumb question, dumb because I'm in the middle of rebuilding my downloads folder after a reinstall (Leaner! Cleaner! Shinier!) and can't test right now. For years I have used Simsky's Faster University Education with no conflicts. Does it change the same BCON and BHAV functions as Cyjon's Semester Changes? Do I need to use the Semester Changes version? Does it include compatibility with AncientHighways Term Paper Required mod?
Theorist
Original Poster
#55 Old 31st Jul 2018 at 6:41 PM
I use that mod too, and none of the versions of this hack (or term paper required) should interfere with it. Semester changes might interfere with it, since I believe it does change semester length. I didn't notice any interference while testing, but that could just be because I have the faster uni mod set to set semesters to 48 hours (which is the same time scale semester changes uses).
Site Helper
#56 Old 31st Jul 2018 at 8:35 PM
Kestrellyn, thanks for your continued willingness to help me with my strange mod conflict issue.

I've decided that for now, I'm going to just pull Fetch Water entirely from my game. Next year, when I'm able to play in a bit more leisurely way, I'll start troubleshooting with it again, in the ways you suggest, since it's required for a number of their sets. Meanwhile, since resource management is a big part of what's fun for me in the game, it's actually not inconsistent with my playstyle that a founding resource of a subhood might just disappear---I'll enjoy playing through the repercussions of that for now. (And in the meantime, I guess if that bug still crops up again, then I'll know I've got even more work to do when troubleshooting again next year.)

But this way, I'll be able to enjoy the game now and save what time and energy remains to me with it in order to do a good job of observing how your mod is working.

In that regard, one thought I've had is that it might be nice to be able to change the per-semester tuition cost of university on the fly. For my hood, I'm thinking flexibility to make it more expensive would be welcome in certain cases (teen decides to pursue a science-heavy uni education that might cost more; some subhood or another stops subsidizing it for their residents...maybe because they're no longer rich with a particular resource that made them so comfortable formerly, heh; family that only planned to send their kids to the cheaper uni suddenly hits a good chance card and can afford the more expensive school). And it might be pleasant to make that happen without having to withdraw the funds and then re-initialize for each sim involved.

But...I'm also open to that being more trouble to code for you than it's really worth, and obviously I already can manage to do it manually as I just described.

My adult borrower sim (the one who borrowed a sum from another sim to take his family on vacation) has paid off all of his loan now except the interest. I deliberately wanted him to remain in debt only due to the interest on the original principal; yours is the first mod ever to allow my sim-sim loans to periodically (and reliably) accrue interest (instead of only once, which is how Monique's mod did it, and to do so regardless of the family funds balance at the time---one downfall of Inge's Mortgage Shrubs was that they would only charge their fixed amount of interest every day when it wouldn't set the family funds to a negative balance). And yes, I can see there's no particular reason why your mod would differentiate an interest-only balance from any other type of loaned monies. I'm just reveling in being able to have them accrue interest, not to mention interest on interest, so much more realistically now!

(Edited to add: sorry I keep forgetting to "mute" my signature here. Also FYI, I should be getting to the YA households again soon. I'm also hoping to have somesim need to inherit somesim else's loan soon, thanks to RNG on military service deaths...and I've been exploring as well how I can use your mod to stand in for child support due. More on all that later.)

*Ongoing TS2 informational projects (come on by to contribute, get info, or spectate!): (1) the SimPE Preservation Project and (2) Conflict Tracking for the 3t2 Traits Project Mods
*Need a Pescado mod? Use his hack directory: in the first post, find the link for your latest EP, then go in hacks/
Theorist
Original Poster
#57 Old 31st Jul 2018 at 9:37 PM
I'm glad everything seems to be working for you! It wouldn't be too hard to make it possible to change tuition rate, and I'm pretty sure I know how to make it stop charging interest on hotel lots, although I can't actually test that at the moment.
Lab Assistant
#58 Old 1st Aug 2018 at 1:04 AM Last edited by croiduire : 1st Aug 2018 at 1:20 AM.
Thank you for the checking on Simsky's Faster University Education mod for me, even though my initial question was sorely lacking in clarity. (I need to remember that nouns are good! )
For the record, I may have trouble writing intelligibly, but I do know better than to install two mods (Simsky's Faster University Education and Cyjon's Semester Changes) that do the exact same thing. I just needed to make sure that Simsky's mod didn't conflict with yours in the same way that Cyjon's does (or did before your latest revision). I appreciate your patience!
Theorist
Original Poster
#59 Old 2nd Aug 2018 at 1:59 AM
I finally found some time to actually look at the faster university education mod, and it appears that it does not actually modify any of the same resources as Semester Changes so it shouldn't conflict in the normal meaning of the term, but I believe Semester Changes will take priority in determining semester length, as that was my experience in testing.
Lab Assistant
THANKS POST
#60 Old 2nd Aug 2018 at 6:14 PM
I finally got around to playing my uni hood, and seeing this mod in action. I love it and haven’t had any problems with it in my heavily modded game. It’s simplified the financial process of college for my sims tremendously, and I no longer have to worry about making sure my sims grants are deposited correctly. Thank you!
Site Helper
#61 Old 3rd Aug 2018 at 1:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kestrellyn
It wouldn't be too hard to make it possible to change tuition rate


Yay! That would be very useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kestrellyn
I'm pretty sure I know how to make it stop charging interest on hotel lots, although I can't actually test that at the moment.


Oh, I should have said: it doesn't charge interest on hotel lots now, so you don't need to change anything if that's how you want it. (I haven't tried vacation homes, though I think one family's about to buy one.) My vacationing borrower came home with the same balance that he left with; the interest he accrued on his sim-sim loan occurred during the first couple days after he was back in the regular hood.

No further problems or oddities to report as of yet. My uni-in-the-main-hood "dorm" students both had it behave as expected this rotation, and it also accrued interest correctly for not only an adult student loan holder in the same household but also for the college funds of the three teens living on the lot (accompanying their older brother, who's their guardian because they're orphans).

I should belatedly clarify that the one time when I had that student in my test hood (Graal) who couldn't complete his semester, I also had recently installed Abortable At-Class, by Dizzy. Unfortunately, I didn't see whether the student actually left and was brought back---he may have gotten to the portal much faster than I expected, but my camera focus was elsewhere. However, what I can say is that it was not the first time he'd tried to go to the final; I canceled the first so he could have coffee.

Therefore it's also possible that the error only occurred because that hack was involved. And that happens to also have been the only situation in which I used the hack's functionality to cancel a Go to Class push that was for a final, not just normal class.

*Ongoing TS2 informational projects (come on by to contribute, get info, or spectate!): (1) the SimPE Preservation Project and (2) Conflict Tracking for the 3t2 Traits Project Mods
*Need a Pescado mod? Use his hack directory: in the first post, find the link for your latest EP, then go in hacks/
Theorist
Original Poster
#62 Old 3rd Aug 2018 at 1:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by natboopsie
Oh, I should have said: it doesn't charge interest on hotel lots now, so you don't need to change anything if that's how you want it. (I haven't tried vacation homes, though I think one family's about to buy one.) My vacationing borrower came home with the same balance that he left with; the interest he accrued on his sim-sim loan occurred during the first couple days after he was back in the regular hood.


Oh, interesting, I guess Hotels fail the "Lot - Is Liveable?" test. I wonder if Vacation homes are considered Liveable. There's one lot zoning constant in that test that isn't labeled, so I don't know what it is. It could potentially be "Vacation home" zoning, or it could be something else. Are you sure your sim was at the hotel between 3 and 4 AM?

Quote:
I should belatedly clarify that the one time when I had that student in my test hood (Graal) who couldn't complete his semester, I also had recently installed Abortable At-Class, by Dizzy. Unfortunately, I didn't see whether the student actually left and was brought back---he may have gotten to the portal much faster than I expected, but my camera focus was elsewhere. However, what I can say is that it was not the first time he'd tried to go to the final; I canceled the first so he could have coffee.

Therefore it's also possible that the error only occurred because that hack was involved. And that happens to also have been the only situation in which I used the hack's functionality to cancel a Go to Class push that was for a final, not just normal class.


Without looking at that hack, I believe this is probably just a coincidence. Making the action cancellable shouldn't affect the function that is run at the end of the semester, and the fact that deleting the token fixed it indicates that there was some corruption of the token that happened.
Site Helper
#63 Old 3rd Aug 2018 at 3:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kestrellyn
Oh, interesting, I guess Hotels fail the "Lot - Is Liveable?" test. I wonder if Vacation homes are considered Liveable. There's one lot zoning constant in that test that isn't labeled, so I don't know what it is. It could potentially be "Vacation home" zoning, or it could be something else. Are you sure your sim was at the hotel between 3 and 4 AM?


Yes, I am. My households always go for 7 days, though sometimes I send them home after 5 or so. And I do often have them on community lots during the vacation, but I am sure that this household spent at least 2 overnights at the hotel. However, I don't mind checking by sending another group; more evidence is always better. And it would be cool to send a different type of borrower or fund owner. I'll see if I can find a household with a good variety to send, or perhaps my uni dorm can go once someone else graduates and ages up with a balance one way or the other (and doesn't yet have to leave campus, thanks to Lamare's YA mod suite).

Ah, yeah, I'd meant to tell you a little more about general hotel and vacation home lot behavior since I think you said you don't have BV installed; glad you reminded me. I'll spoiler all that since it's definitely OT.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kestrellyn
Without looking at that hack, I believe this is probably just a coincidence. Making the action cancellable shouldn't affect the function that is run at the end of the semester, and the fact that deleting the token fixed it indicates that there was some corruption of the token that happened.


Good, I'm glad it didn't end up being info that changed the issue completely, since I still should have mentioned it earlier! Still watching for it.
Theorist
Original Poster
#64 Old 3rd Aug 2018 at 9:28 PM
Hmm, maybe Lamare can make it possible to age, advance pregnancies, and have babies on vacation lots and hotels? I would definitely be interested in that if I do wind up installing BV. The not-aging thing really wouldn't work well with my rotation.
Theorist
Original Poster
#65 Old 4th Aug 2018 at 11:08 PM
Ok, it's now possible to change total education cost without deleting the token first.
Site Helper
THANKS POST
#66 Old 5th Aug 2018 at 7:34 PM
Yay, thank you!

I'm thinking about writing up a run-through (maybe to start my journal here?) for how I use this mod after I've played as much as I can with it---because I seem to be coming up with lots of, er, alternative uses for it. (The possibilities of which I remain so grateful to you for!!) Will keep you posted. I'm not willing to tear myself away from the game to do it, but I'll have months of time after this when I won't be near my gaming setup anyway.

Field Researcher
#67 Old 19th Aug 2018 at 8:08 PM
What happens if a YA graduates with a positive balance in their college fund (ie they put in/gained in interest more than the total cost of their education)?

♫Cuz I don't have a home in this life, I have to roam. Got nowhere to lay my head, so I'll follow you instead, and set my gaze on the place I'm going to. Til then I'm homeless, but I'll roam with you...♫

My Simblr: http://natteryaktoad.tumblr.com
Theorist
Original Poster
#68 Old 19th Aug 2018 at 11:25 PM
Then they will maintain that positive balance as an adult. They can withdraw it whenever they like, or leave it in there to accumulate more interest. However, they won't be able to add more to the fund once they graduate.
Site Helper
#69 Old 31st Aug 2018 at 10:03 PM
Long time no write, and I'm sorry, kestrellyn; life got much busier, much faster, than I anticipated. But I've squeezed in a bit of time to escape play here and there, and I've certainly not forgotten you or this mod. Now finally, finally, this weekend (specifically, Saturday or Monday), I should have time to write up all my findings from my play (and paste them, ha) here.

The highlight, which just happened yesterday, is that I saw that corrupted-token bug again! I've never been so excited to spot a bug before, heh. I captured the stack trace (plus, I did a few iterations of token settings/presence once I found it to see if it changed the stack trace any [not that I'd know, but you will, I'm sure], in case that was helpful; I'll describe in detail when I post the various stack traces generated, or just will type the description of each into the file for each). So I'll have that for you also when I finally write. I'd be so happy if that would help you quash that bug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NatteryakToad
What happens if a YA graduates with a positive balance in their college fund (ie they put in/gained in interest more than the total cost of their education)?


@NatteryakToad Some of my good-with-money sims have been taking advantage of that, because although others of my sims have access to interest-earning savings vehicles (Monique's computer's saving accounts), not all are "allowed to" (headcanon). So those sims sell all teen and YA date gifts, for example, and stash all that and any other money they can in their "college funds" to take advantage of that window of time, the only time in their lives they will be able to open an interest-paying account. Of course, since they're good with money, they won't touch that stash until they really need it---like to help buy their first home (most of my sims don't buy their first homes until they've lived with family or roommates for a while after uni anyway; my hood is very expensive to live in). If they have, say, a YA fiance(e) who graduates sometime after they do, that means they may also be able to stash some of their first-job earnings in that person's account. Of course, funds only earn interest after the owner is no longer a YA, but in the case of these sims who'd never earn interest otherwise, several days or a couple weeks worth of interest is far better than none. (I use longer lifespans.)

Similarly, some of my sim parents who (headcanon, again) are "good with money" but also don't have access to personal savings accounts that pay interest will stash excess family funds in their children's college funds until the kids start uni. They can withdraw those funds (as legal custodians of their minor child) to help the family out, or if the family fortunes go well, can leave them as a "trust fund" for those kids.

All this is inspired by what's possible with various tax-sheltered savings vehicles available under the US tax code (though it's sort of a frankensteining of a few different options), so I don't see it as unrealistic.

*Ongoing TS2 informational projects (come on by to contribute, get info, or spectate!): (1) the SimPE Preservation Project and (2) Conflict Tracking for the 3t2 Traits Project Mods
*Need a Pescado mod? Use his hack directory: in the first post, find the link for your latest EP, then go in hacks/
Theorist
Original Poster
#70 Old 31st Aug 2018 at 11:55 PM
Great, looking forward to your report! Hooray for long weekends!
Site Helper
#71 Old 4th Sep 2018 at 6:41 PM Last edited by natboopsie : 4th Sep 2018 at 6:43 PM. Reason: clarity
As usual, I'm getting back here later still than I had thought! (Long weekends are a mixed blessing that way, heh.) But as promised, I've brought the stack traces and details from my most recent spot of that can't-finish-the-semester bug.

I've written up the details and included them just before each stack trace; the stack traces themselves are both in the same file, the PoorSally one attached. I thought it might be easier to use them that way. So, there are two error logs included in the attached file, each for a different but failed try of getting Sally to finish the semester. I also succeeded in the end at getting her to complete the semester, with a new token re-added; I describe that trial (C) at the end of the file.

First, some overall notes about the background of the main-hood uni student, Sally:



To jog your memory, the first and only other time a YA of mine had this bug (can't finish the semester), it was a uni-subhood YA, Graal. However, his token had not had nearly the amount of processing that Sally's had in the past; it was just set-and-forget as far as I was concerned. You have never seen the stack trace for Graal because, well, I panicked and never generated one, only deleted his token and got him correctly progressed that way.

Anyway, in all my other recent play in the main and uni subhoods involving the tuition tokens, there were not surprises other than this one. Both my subhood and main-hood unis had several new graduates each, and all went as expected: accounts or family funds were accurately credited, and no other students besides Sally had any trouble finishing their semesters. Yay!

I didn't pay careful attention to the accrual of interest in day-to-day play, but my pre-YA sims all seem to be having it credited as I expect. Same with interest accruing on sim-to-sim loans as well as on student loans with no payee (which I consider to be direct from the government): no problems that I have noticed.



Last but not least, about smaller increments.

Download - please read all instructions before downloading any files!
File Type: txt PoorSally.txt (7.0 KB, 6 downloads)
Theorist
Original Poster
#72 Old 5th Sep 2018 at 2:42 AM Last edited by kestrellyn : 5th Sep 2018 at 3:01 AM.
Well, no token corruption, it was just trying to pay the payee the 0 simoleons of grant money your sim received, which is silly, but normally harmless, except that there being no payee or sponsor set caused the function to return false, which I for some reason forgot wasn't an error when I was writing the grant-handling function. Anyway, that's fixed now, and it also catches the situation of there being no grant money, so that it doesn't spawn a silly notification telling you that 0 simoleons went to pay student loans or whatever. Everything you did with the token was totally fine, the only thing that caused the problem was unsetting the payee and sponsor, which shouldn't have.

Regarding loaning smaller amounts - would it work to have an option to initialize with 0 simoleons, at which point you can set a sponsor or payee manually and borrow in increments of 1000 from the existing menu as you prefer?

Also, I think I found a way to ban interest from vacation hoods entirely without changing EP requirements, but I can't test it since I haven't actually installed BV yet. Can you try it out and tell me if it works?
Site Helper
#73 Old 5th Sep 2018 at 1:38 PM
Thank you for your explanation of what was going wrong with the tokens! Very interesting, and I'm glad it was fixable! It's important to me to be able to switch to different payees and sponsors as refinancing (and perhaps later, political maneuvering) occurs.

Oh, yes, initializing with 0 simoleons would be fantastic! I don't know if that would make redundant the bit where you can choose to make it a student loan or a loan from another sim...on the other hand, I suppose even with that, it's possible some folks might want to be able to initialize student loans at 0 anyway so they at least know that's what they were thinking for that sim---especially now that we can change the initialization amount on the fly.

I will be delighted to test the vacation-hood interest accrual in the current version! I regret to say it will have to be just one family, rushed through one vacation, but I can take them to their vacation home for a night, ensure they're on a community lot around 3 and 4 am, and also check them into a hotel to spend those late hours on another night. (You can check into a hotel even when you own a vacation home, and even when you have been to the vacation home during the trip.)

So I'll post again in a day or so to let you know what happened with that test!

*Ongoing TS2 informational projects (come on by to contribute, get info, or spectate!): (1) the SimPE Preservation Project and (2) Conflict Tracking for the 3t2 Traits Project Mods
*Need a Pescado mod? Use his hack directory: in the first post, find the link for your latest EP, then go in hacks/
Theorist
Original Poster
#74 Old 6th Sep 2018 at 2:53 AM
Ok, it's now possible to initialize with 0 simoleons. No worries about the dialogs, it simply skips those in that case.
Site Helper
#75 Old 7th Sep 2018 at 1:13 AM
Vacation-hood test results: the change works! My vacationing couple spent 2 nights at their vacation home, 1 night on a community lot (massages helped keep their needs up) and 1 night at a hotel. They came home with her (the only one I gave a token to; she had previously graduated main-hood uni before I had your mod at all, so I initialized her first token prior to sending them away---he's never had one at all, since he never went to college and that all happened before this mod too) having the exact same loan balance as before. Hurray!

FYI, I did not test with payees and sponsors; she had neither.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kestrellyn
Ok, it's now possible to initialize with 0 simoleons. No worries about the dialogs, it simply skips those in that case.


I really appreciate how you think of all these details. Sadly, I've now completely run out of time to play, but I'll look forward to checking out that new feature when I can once more! And in the intervening months, as I said, I probably will write up and publish some thoughts on how I've been using your mod for all sorts of financial purposes. I think it needs more exposure. Thanks for being so willing to tweak it!
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