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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#1 Old 18th Dec 2015 at 8:53 PM Last edited by grammapat : 30th Dec 2015 at 3:01 AM.
Default An invitation
I wish I could invite you all to my house, give everyone a cookie and a hug, and let everyone just vent and everything. I don't have any rules (except don't eat the last cookie, and stay out of my bed).
But we are not at MY house, we are in someone ELSE'S MTS house! So we follow their rules, or take the conversation elsewhere. I've been here since 2008, but don't remember anything like what has happened here in the last week or so. This situation MAY be unique, but the rules are the same as elsewhere. What applies here, is this:

About Dec 12, Thranduil Oropherion was banned. We can't say bad things about him (just like if he was an active member that we were mad at). Someone here may know his REAL LIFE identity, and other information about him: we can't talk about that! It's called libel, and legal action could be taken against anyone who does it (including MTS itself).

I don't remember when I started TALKING to people here, or when I started talking to T.O. {That One ?} He came here June 2010 {this is all public info}. I do remember that before he was T.O. he was FairyCakes, and about the time he changed his name, I began to think of him as my friend. I think of a lot of people here as Friend, even Family! Yea, I know it's only "electronic media", but you are not just pixels to ME! I know we all "present" ourselves in a not quite REAL way; but people do this even face to face! I presented myself as just ME: my name really IS Pat, and I really AM a Gramma. I turned 71 last August, and a few months ago my oldest grandchild became a daddy, so you know what that makes ME! I don't mind saying all this because - so what? Am I going to tell you my husbands full name, and my social security number? Of course not.
I have many fine qualities, I have a life, I have unpopular opinions - there are plenty of things I WON'T talk about. So someone else here doesn't want to tell how old they are, or wants to pretend stuff, or whatever. FINE! GOOD! My favorite game as a child was "let's pretend", and I still play it. But here's the kicker.....
When I 'play pretend' there are rules involved, and I expect people to follow the same rules. When I pretend, when I say things that aren't really true, you will KNOW it, in lots of ways. {Except, sometimes I hint at something, not really thinking people will understand or approve. Like: I'm a really right-wing Republican..Hahaha only kidding! or not}
If you tell me you can fly, whither I believe you or not, whither you REALLY can or not, it doesn't hurt anyone. If you say you are young and good-looking and SINGLE...well I don't personally care, but if you tell someone that in a PM and you are having a serious discussion...for months...that's NOT OK. If you announce on a thread that you are going to kill yourself...but you're just looking for attention, or trying to pull our chains...THAT'S NOT OK!!!

HURTING PEOPLE IS NOT OK! We all hurt people's feelings sometimes (and I AM sorry...you know who you are}, but deliberately hurting people, for whatever reason, and however you do it, is just not OK. Which is the idea behind the MTS rules, isn't it?
------------------
So there I was, in a big friendly group at this gamer-social site. Making jokes, being silly, being serious, patting the children on the head ("There there dear, it will be OK. Have a cookie"), winking at Stewart, posting pictures of cookies. And One Of Us is shown the door, and the rest of us are angry, or hurt, or confused, or all of the above. And many of the rest of us are feeling betrayed, and suspicious of everyone else, and just damned uncomfortable. The House is a disaster, and people are heading for the basement, or the door. What the hell! And we (yea, ME too) - like family DOES- start saying things about what happened, and expressing all those feeling - with some choice words. And the landlord shuts us down. Seems like the mob has dispersed.. but we are not happy...

I don't know if anyone is "out there" who want's to talk. I do think some links to information about social-media problems would be helpful. I've been watching a TV show called "catfish" - OMG who knew! Hay, I only got a home computer 9 years ago when I retired, and my first cell phone 2 years ago (and no, it doesn't take pictures or connect to the internet or TEXT!). SO for all my years, experience, and learnings, I am pretty ignorant about some things. But like my signature used to say "Ignorance is not stupiditity". And people would correct my spelling! I was trying to be funny, but it really means that the fact that you don't know something doesn't mean you're stupid. And I can be pretty ridiculous, and irritate people. When my father was dying in a hospital, my mom and I were walking the halls cracking each other up. Relatives were aghast. But that macabre humor is STILL how I deal with grief.

So I apologize if I seem to me disrespectful of people (some of whom have every reason to be a lot more hurt than I AM). We each have different issues here, and have different ways of dealing with it. I respect each of you, and send you my fondest regards.
Your loving, if slightly bazaar,
Gramma Pat.
=====================
P.S. because there still seems to be confusion about the intent of this thread...THIS THREAD IS
1) For those of us directly involved in the Problem, a place to compare notes, or wounds, or opinions, or anger - need I go on? The Victims & their Friends.
2) A place for people to ask "What the F happened" (innocent Bystanders)
3) A place for people to ask "Did something happen?" (the mildly Curious)
4) A place to share information (links) about how to avoid the Problem in future; the links TELL you what the Problem was! Use your heads, Nuboos, information is ALL OVER the site!

Namaste... or "go"
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Mad Poster
Original Poster
#2 Old 18th Dec 2015 at 9:07 PM
I will be gone most of Christmas week, going to Idaho to see my daughter and grand kids. Hope Santa brings you nice stuffs, Merry Christmas {or whatever greetings apply}

Namaste... or "go"
Mad Poster
#3 Old 19th Dec 2015 at 2:43 AM
Have a wonderful holiday, Pat, and a relaxing visit with your daughter and grandchildren. Well said vent. I've been thrown and I've only been a bystander and I'm upset, too. We can talk more when you come back.

Addicted to The Sims since 2000.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#4 Old 19th Dec 2015 at 5:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VerDeTerre
Have a wonderful holiday, Pat, and a relaxing visit with your daughter and grandchildren. Well said vent. I've been thrown and I've only been a bystander and I'm upset, too. We can talk more when you come back.

Maybe you can share this thread, a number of people have asked about it. Frankly, I don't know how much good it will do. And I DO want to find some links...

Namaste... or "go"
Mad Poster
#5 Old 19th Dec 2015 at 11:46 AM
I'll add it to my signature for a while. I've told some people, but I think people are feeling sketchy about stuff....not your fault. Trust is gone.

Addicted to The Sims since 2000.
Banned
DELETED POST
19th Dec 2015 at 3:17 PM
This message has been deleted by Aaron4Ever. Reason: Wait, wait, its a vent.
Top Secret Researcher
#6 Old 19th Dec 2015 at 6:10 PM
I do sense a bit of the apprehension going around.

But the holidays are near and I hope that everyone can find some sort of peace with the events that have transpired.

A hug and a kiss to everyone here at MTS. Thank you for making me feel welcomed when I didn't have an outlet for just about anything.

@grammapat Keep being a lovely human being, and enjoy the Christmas week with your babies and your babies' babies.

Not-so-daily TS2 downloads @ my simblr.
Mad Poster
DELETED POST
Original Poster
19th Dec 2015 at 8:45 PM
This message has been deleted by grammapat. Reason: put this somewhere else
#7 Old 19th Dec 2015 at 10:12 PM
I hadn't witnessed it but when I found out what happened I thought to myself, "Wow, and he seemed like a nice user." I guess I don't care if people lie about themselves on the Internet as long as they aren't douches about it...and TO was definitely a douche about it.
Forum Resident
#8 Old 20th Dec 2015 at 12:43 AM
I was gobsmacked at the scandal too. I might have puffed up my own reputation at times, and obviously left out actual details, but some of it is the truth. The parts about me being a layabout with computer games on the brain who takes too much from real life to put in said games.

Avatar model: Shi Gaik Lan / Atroxia "Jade Orchid" Lion (Source: Dynasty Warriors 8 Empires).
The Four Stars (Table of Content)
Mekageddon, the Interactive Story. (Remake Discussion) (Dev Tumblr)
Mad Poster
DELETED POST
20th Dec 2015 at 12:53 AM
This message has been deleted by HarVee. Reason: Better perspective, better mind.
Theorist
#9 Old 20th Dec 2015 at 1:00 AM
It's a pity the discussions and vents about the subject were cut off the way they were. That boring thread was deleted before I could read the responses after my last post there and then we had the six closed threads. I can understand that writing personal info about other people (f.e. there are innocent people attacked by people, because of sharing the same name as such creeps) is forbidden and the amount of thread used for vents and discussions, but I still would have loved to see a thread about it to be open about this subject. Especially looking at the mix of members at MTS. Only protecting and warning the rest of potential victims should be already enough reason, not to mention helping and supporting his victims, both known and maybe unknown.

Btw, I would advice all to read the link in the sign of VDT, an useful article about this subject.
Mad Poster
DELETED POST
20th Dec 2015 at 1:05 AM Last edited by HarVee : 20th Dec 2015 at 1:17 AM.
This message has been deleted by HarVee. Reason: Better perspective, better mind.
Mad Poster
#10 Old 20th Dec 2015 at 1:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarVee
If it to serve a reminder to everyone, then they're practically reminding every victim of this incident every time a victim goes to off-topic section. It is practically equivalent of reminding a traumatized child of their traumatic past, and is really only disrespectful to the victims of this particular incident.
I'm unclear which trauma you are referring to, the one involving a predator or the one involving being silenced by the mods? The people who were affected by the deceiver want to talk about it. Talk relieves the stress and allows us to make sense of the events that happened.

One thing that runs through my mind is the idea of someone "practicing" and becoming more threatening over time and with each subsequent target.

Addicted to The Sims since 2000.
Spice Pony
#11 Old 20th Dec 2015 at 4:03 AM
While I'm still not entirely clear on what exactly went down, and I'm not likely to ever be, what I have gathered of it tells me that that is for the best. Was it before or after this fiasco that the Random Bollocks thread of the time was discussing some past site drama of some infamy? This seems kind of like that, only to those of us on the fringes of it, it might as well have been before our time. Seriously, I didn't even know anything was going on until the mods cracked down on the off-topic threads. This whole episode has been surreal. In retrospect, though, I think that even before it happened, there were hints that something wasn't right.

In any case, I've not much to say on the subject, so I'll likely contribute little further here. Still, it's nice to have a place for clarification for those who are still fumbling in bafflement.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#12 Old 20th Dec 2015 at 7:32 AM
As far as a time-line (if that is what you are talking about...?) Over two years ago a woman here left in shame?pain? because of him. I only SUSPECT that more have left. FOR THE SAME REASON SOME ARE LEAVING NOW. In the past it never was even public, but people were hurt and couldn't bare to even be on this site anymore. THIS time some of us started talking, rather than just leaving. AND THAT "gossip" (which was actually NOT gossip) spread. That WAS a good thing! Because at least he was forced to leave here. I happen to think something more "REAL" should be done to protect the public...but that may yet happen. In the mean time, a sense of general betrayal and mistrust has fallen on many of us. The moderators, as Keepers of the Peace, stepped in. End of problem. Sorry, so NOT. And now we are being reminded (by mods and others) that this site, our conversations, and our relationships here, are all just play, make-believe, and shouldn't have any more importance than a movie that we don't like the plot of. Um...

Namaste... or "go"
Mad Poster
DELETED POST
20th Dec 2015 at 7:48 AM
This message has been deleted by HarVee. Reason: Better perspective, better mind.
Mad Poster
#13 Old 20th Dec 2015 at 11:34 AM Last edited by VerDeTerre : 20th Dec 2015 at 11:45 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarVee
...You know, one himself is not quite sure at this point. But one is glad you all have decided not to let the mods suppress you and not let Thran's actions get the best of you all.


Pat wanted a thread where we could talk about it and ran it by the mods first. Don Babillon helped her set it up. We have to be careful how we talk, but we can talk. Thank you for setting this up, Pat.

Addicted to The Sims since 2000.
Mad Poster
#14 Old 20th Dec 2015 at 2:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grammapat
The moderators, as Keepers of the Peace, stepped in. End of problem. Sorry, so NOT. And now we are being reminded (by mods and others) that this site, our conversations, and our relationships here, are all just play, make-believe, and shouldn't have any more importance than a movie that we don't like the plot of. Um...


You may be on to something here.

As I was lurking around here this morning, I had a scene from the movie Meet The Fockers running through my head. It was the part where Robert De Niro is talking to Ben Stiller about the circle of trust and if a person breaks the trust, they are kicked out of the circle.

Mud tracking as it was recently explained to me means that drama from one site is dragged here which happens quite a lot. Most of it flies under the radar with a few exceptions. Hi! *waves*

Trust cannot be fixed by applying more layers of reasons not to trust a person. If MTS is deemed as nothing more than a place for fun and games with no real meaning behind any of it, then there is no reason to fix the problem. It is a interesting conflict of interests. Behave but don't take things seriously. I see this being a problem in the future, but people reap what they sow.
Theorist
#15 Old 20th Dec 2015 at 4:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grammapat
As far as a time-line (if that is what you are talking about...?) Over two years ago a woman here left in shame?pain? because of him. I only SUSPECT that more have left. FOR THE SAME REASON SOME ARE LEAVING NOW. In the past it never was even public, but people were hurt and couldn't bare to even be on this site anymore. THIS time some of us started talking, rather than just leaving. AND THAT "gossip" (which was actually NOT gossip) spread. That WAS a good thing! Because at least he was forced to leave here. I happen to think something more "REAL" should be done to protect the public...but that may yet happen. In the mean time, a sense of general betrayal and mistrust has fallen on many of us. The moderators, as Keepers of the Peace, stepped in. End of problem. Sorry, so NOT. And now we are being reminded (by mods and others) that this site, our conversations, and our relationships here, are all just play, make-believe, and shouldn't have any more importance than a movie that we don't like the plot of. Um...


This makes me actually very sad. Of course, people leave sites all the time of whatever reasons (life changes), but this may never be the reason.
Instructor
DELETED POST
20th Dec 2015 at 4:52 PM
This message has been deleted by pizza.
Theorist
#16 Old 20th Dec 2015 at 4:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizza
I considered leaving, then thought, why the hell should I, especially for those reasons? I've done nothing wrong. So unfortunately you're stuck with me yaaaaay


We're glad you stayed and he left. Like it should. For the people who left because of this:

Mad Poster
Original Poster
#17 Old 20th Dec 2015 at 8:53 PM
Had to laugh at video. Not the same thing at all....EXCEPT those of us who have feelings for others here, who consider some them our family, and others our friends - we don't want to see you hurting. And if being here brings up memories that HURT, well, do what you NEED to do. And I know others who are CONSIDERING leaving, for reasons related to the "feel" of "our house" now. Like creepy and mean and dangerous. (Personally, ALL these apply to me, and I've sorta tried to leave a few times - and I may yet)

So the video IS related, in the sense that we (a number of us) are holding our hands out to you: don't go away, stay, even STAND (if you understand THAT meaning!). We are not the ones whose business it should be to try to restore the good vibes at MTS, but we are the ones WHO CARE, because we care about each other IN REAL LIFE WAYS! What verdeterre says (go look), but I hope we CAN heal this double-wound. The wounds created by That One, was made worse by the Management, and now WE make it worse. Sort of like when Al-Quada strikes - if we all fear them, run from our homes, distrust each other, hate everthing...THEY WIN!
P.S. Am I pissed at Management? Not really - they are reacting with typical Business Practices, which I always see as "follow the procedures, don't get involved, move on". Not actually helpful for the Community Based organization we THINK of them as. Yes, I was Sacramento DHA representative on CBOs in Sacramento County, and I know how they operate. If MTS sees itself less a CBO ("lets work together, this is about people and feelings"), and more a business ("It's not personal, it's just business") that is THEIR right. Like hating someone who doesn't agree with you, who is a "harmless idiot" -- don't waste your hate, or your breath.

Namaste... or "go"
Theorist
#18 Old 20th Dec 2015 at 9:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grammapat
Had to laugh at video. Not the same thing at all....EXCEPT those of us who have feelings for others here, who consider some them our family, and others our friends - we don't want to see you hurting. And if being here brings up memories that HURT, well, do what you NEED to do. And I know others who are CONSIDERING leaving, for reasons related to the "feel" of "our house" now. Like creepy and mean and dangerous. (Personally, ALL these apply to me, and I've sorta tried to leave a few times - and I may yet)

So the video IS related, in the sense that we (a number of us) are holding our hands out to you: don't go away, stay, even STAND (if you understand THAT meaning!). We are not the ones whose business it should be to try to restore the good vibes at MTS, but we are the ones WHO CARE, because we care about each other IN REAL LIFE WAYS! What verdeterre says (go look), but I hope we CAN heal this double-wound. The wounds created by That One, was made worse by the Management, and now WE make it worse. Sort of like when Al-Quada strikes - if we all fear them, run from our homes, distrust each other, hate everthing...THEY WIN!
P.S. Am I pissed at Management? Not really - they are reacting with typical Business Practices, which I always see as "follow the procedures, don't get involved, move on". Not actually helpful for the Community Based organization we THINK of them as. Yes, I was Sacramento DHA representative on CBOs in Sacramento County, and I know how they operate. If MTS sees itself less a CBO ("lets work together, this is about people and feelings"), and more a business ("It's not personal, it's just business") that is THEIR right. Like hating someone who doesn't agree with you, who is a "harmless idiot" -- don't waste your hate, or your breath.


That was actually the reason for me to post it (''Why don't you come back? Please hurry, Why dont you come back? Please hurry...Come back and stay for good this time''). It was not mentioned in a funny way or so, but just the fitting song and parts of its lyrics.
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#19 Old 21st Dec 2015 at 1:31 AM
And YOU that are disagreeing - without posting what you are disagreeing WITH... I will ignore.

Namaste... or "go"
Guest
#20 Old 21st Dec 2015 at 4:43 AM
I knew the guy, as much as anyone could "know" someone on a form where you use handles and can pretend to be someone else. Which is, I suppose, to say I didn't know him at all. His on-line persona and who he really was were quite different.

I liked who he appeared to be. I think many did... he seemed quite popular.

I could PM him when bad things happened in my life, he'd lend an ear .

I got a heaping share of contempt when I stepped right in on it with my not knowing what was going on amid all the PMs and all going about. As if my being ignorant of events was my damnation. I feel guilty for not seeing it, and stupid for not following the "man code" of honesty. I donno... I struggle with that one; Not telling you who I am is one thing, but I won't lie and say I am someone else. Part of that "code" is not to tolerate those who aren't honest.

I don't know exactly what he did and I don't want to know. I know it was bad and I'm not saying it wasn't bad.
I don't know what the moderators, administers and the website owner said to people and with only a few exceptions to whom they spoke, other than they were trying to avoid a lawsuit.
I felt like I do when a couple I know goes through a divorce... I've known boys who seem to be okay among men but then they really are abusive husbands. I could tell stories...

For me the worst is, I don't trust most people here anymore. I don't know who people are, or what they are capable of doing. I see a name I've never seen before and I wonder... who is this?

I worked long hours for over 30 years, and I had a "support" group at work. I could vent. Towards the end before I retired, I found myself in a group of people I didn't know... no one I would talk to, and most who would slip the knife in my back job wise if they thought they could get ahead by doing so... and I have things I need to let out and that's why I was so addicted to the Off topic forums on MTS. I would come here and say it, get a little feedback now and then. Now? I feel I said too much and was too personal with people most of whom probably are the good people they seem to be, but a few may be total predators that lord knows what they are capable of doing.

As a rule, it is unwise to write anything of substance here. Some of the things I said were really stupid to share, and I see how it could have been used against me.
Forum Resident
DELETED POST
21st Dec 2015 at 7:36 AM
This message has been deleted by Flaygor. Reason: tired of all this
Mad Poster
Original Poster
#21 Old 21st Dec 2015 at 8:27 AM
Stuart & Flaygor: I know where you're coming from. I wonder now at things I have said about my personal life, and MYSELF personally.. it seemed like a good idea at the time. There is no one in RL I can talk to except my daughter, and I can't talk to HER in person EITHER, and feel like I burden her too much. People have sometimes said stuff I didn't deserve; oddly, a few of those now act friendly... did they forget what they've said? But MOSTLY, there IS a certain "separation" talking to people here; we ALL say things we wouldn't say to Real Life people who we knew so casually! So I take it with a grain of salt when someone seems testy or snarky with me - maybe they're just having a bad day.
Um, I sound conflicted, don't I? "I like you guys/I want to talk to you"; "I don't trust anyone/you're mean to me"; "I was trying to be funny but you got mad at me". It's a fine balance isn't it, trying to be friends vs trying to be safe.
Even this: Flaygor, you've been here as long as me, but I don't remember ever seeing you before....dum dum DUM! And you're in New Zealand. Then again, I had to ask my husband three times today when the neighbors were coming over. My mind...slippage.

Namaste... or "go"
Mad Poster
DELETED POST
21st Dec 2015 at 8:39 AM
This message has been deleted by HarVee. Reason: Better perspective, better mind.
Instructor
DELETED POST
21st Dec 2015 at 9:48 AM Last edited by pizza : 21st Dec 2015 at 10:04 AM.
This message has been deleted by pizza. Reason: I'll post this another time. Not ready yet
Mad Poster
#22 Old 21st Dec 2015 at 1:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaygor
In the last week I've had to suffer the embarrassment of someone I thought was a friend twice publicly infer that my posts were sexually offensive, then listen to someone who should be reported waffle on about how men my age and divorced have impotency issues and then have that same person try and make offensive alternatives for the name Stuart! My real name. Not funny. Where's my apology? (And yours too I guess)

But I will suck it up and carry on because they don't know me and how they've upset me with their unfunny comments, and I believe there are far more people here who do like and respect me and want me to continue.
I hope
Thanks for letting me get that off my chest.


I'm sorry.

If it means anything, you're my favorite person around here. I tease you out of fun and it's never mean-spirited. And I would totally ask you "What's shakin', Bacon?" to your face with a smile and would wait for a answer.

Unlike you though, sometimes I need a time out from this place for a host of reasons. Anytime I disappear, it is never because of you. Just saying....
Instructor
DELETED POST
21st Dec 2015 at 2:04 PM Last edited by pizza : 21st Dec 2015 at 2:47 PM.
This message has been deleted by pizza. Reason: All done onwards and upwards
Mad Poster
#23 Old 21st Dec 2015 at 3:50 PM
I don't think grammapat and pizza need to apologize to anyone or justify themselves. Just because this happens to a lot of people doesn't mean it's not upsetting- just because this started on the internet in the ether realm doesn't mean it's make-believe.
There are telltale signs that somebody isn't for real, but we might not see them especially if that person has been around the forum for a while which he was..
I keep typing sentences that I then have to delete - I don't care about getting banned, but I don't want to mess up this group since it belongs to gp. So there's more I would say but I won't.
Instructor
#24 Old 21st Dec 2015 at 4:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseCity
I don't think grammapat and pizza need to apologize to anyone or justify themselves. Just because this happens to a lot of people doesn't mean it's not upsetting- just because this started on the internet in the ether realm doesn't mean it's make-believe.
There are telltale signs that somebody isn't for real, but we might not see them especially if that person has been around the forum for a while which he was..
I keep typing sentences that I then have to delete - I don't care about getting banned, but I don't want to mess up this group since it belongs to gp. So there's more I would say but I won't.


Thank you RoseCity
Mad Poster
#25 Old 21st Dec 2015 at 4:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseCity
I don't think grammapat and pizza need to apologize to anyone or justify themselves. Just because this happens to a lot of people doesn't mean it's not upsetting- just because this started on the internet in the ether realm doesn't mean it's make-believe.


I agree. I think what has happened over the past week or so is just a symptom of bigger issues that for whatever reason have not been addressed. I come here lately and get the feeling that there is a group of white elephants in the room that nobody wants to address.

Sticking true to my theme of the upcoming new year, this isn't my house, so I need to drop it and move on.
 
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