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Field Researcher
Original Poster
#1 Old 2nd Sep 2021 at 5:50 PM
Default Just curious, why do some sim creators say not to use their sims as a base?
I don't have a horse in this race since I like creating my own sims myself, and there are plenty of face templates available out there for TS2. And regardless, I support respecting other simmers' TOU.

I just got on simblr recently and I noticed some cc creators have in their TOUs not to use uploaded sims as a base for your own sims. I don't really understand the reasoning for that. I've shared a couple of my sims for TS3 on Reddit when asked, and while I have some fondness for my little pixel people, I just don't care what other people do with them. If someone takes my sim, changes the eye color, gives them a new name, and uploads them to their own site, that would be fine.

Anyone here feel differently? Help me understand.
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Link Ninja
#2 Old 2nd Sep 2021 at 7:36 PM
I do not feel differently, I kind of just put them out there and tell anyone to go hog wild.

Uh oh! My social bar is low - that's why I posted today.

Mad Poster
#3 Old 2nd Sep 2021 at 7:45 PM
Quote: Originally posted by glowstarsinajar
. . . while I have some fondness for my little pixel people, I just don't care what other people do with them. If someone takes my sim, changes the eye color, gives them a new name, and uploads them to their own site, that would be fine.

Anyone here feel differently? Help me understand.
I admit I have extraordinary affection towards my Sims. I know that some players torture and abuse their Sims. The thought of a Sim who known nothing but love and tender care being treated like that does rather appal me. (Yes I know that Sims aren't real humans, and anyway, what happens to a clone of my Sim in someone else's game can have no effect at all on the original in my game -- unless it's by some sort of voodoo!) For this very reason I've never shared a Sim for general download. (I've privately shared Body Shop Sims a couple of times to people I felt I could trust, and then sent them with requests to look after them, like a child going away from home on their own for the first time.)

But, if someone took a Sim of mine and made a new Sim out of it, with name and appearance changed, then I wouldn't mind at all. I doubt if I'd even notice!

Actually it's extremely unlikely that anyone would ever use one of my Sims as the basis for a new Sim. Apart from their hair and their clothes, my Sims are generally pure Maxis!

All Sims are beautiful -- even the ugly ones.
My Simblr ~~ My LJ
Sims' lives matter!
The Veronaville kids are alright.
Inventor
#4 Old 3rd Sep 2021 at 3:25 AM
Even though I haven't encountered this frequently, some creators regard their sims as a part of them and care deeply for their backstory, and I can understand why they're not keen to share them to other people. I recently came across an old post on gardenofshadows about making face templates from other sims as a request, and the owner of a few chimed in and said 'please don't use my sims' faces as a base', while another owner said 'you have my permission, go wild'. So I would say it's subjective.

For example; I don't get attached to the sims I make and would happily upload them for anyone to use, I even made a townie subhood last year! But I'm a writer who makes a lot of OCs (i.e., original characters) that I regard as important, and I wouldn't be too happy to see someone use my OCs as a base for their OC, right down to the way they look, how they talk, where they came from, etc. On the flip side, when I had my simblr I got permission to make a few of my non-simmer friends' OCs from my writing discord for my neighborhood and I made it clear they're not shareable, as my friends wouldn't have been comfortable to have their OCs available for anyone else, they put a lot of effort into developing their stories. It all comes down to the individual I guess.

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Forum Resident
#5 Old 3rd Sep 2021 at 4:21 AM
Like Primavera said about writing if you wrote an essay or painted a painting you wouldn't want somebody to just change a few words or paint it a different color and call it their own would you. It's the same with sims People put time effort and work into creating these, they maybe willing to share it with you that doesn't mean you can just change it and call it your own.
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#6 Old 3rd Sep 2021 at 5:44 AM
Thanks everyone for the responses, I wasn't sure if there would be much of a discussion here!

Quote: Originally posted by Mischief Managed
Like Primavera said about writing if you wrote an essay or painted a painting you wouldn't want somebody to just change a few words or paint it a different color and call it their own would you. It's the same with sims.


For me, that analogy just kind of falls flat, because I have done all of these things, including sharing sims online, and to me it isn't the same at all. Writing and painting are much more personal to me, and they feel much more like concrete acts of creation. But what everyone wrote here does help me understand the mindset where people feel a more personal connection to their sims as a creative pursuit, or just have a very strong emotional connection, so thanks.

Quote:
People put time effort and work into creating these, they maybe willing to share it with you that doesn't mean you can just change it and call it your own


So this helps too - when I think of "using sims as a base," maybe because whenever you make a sim, you aren't starting from scratch, you always have a face that you alter and then call your own creation. So maybe I'm picturing more changes than what others are thinking when they say "use as a base." Sort of a ship of Theseus question. If you change every aspect of a sim, is it the same sim? If it's not, then at what point does it stop being the same sim? How about if I tried to make a sim that looked exactly like yours, had all the same personality, etc., but I did it just by looking at pictures, or from my own memory? (to be clear, these are hypotheticals, I'm not interested in actually doing this.)

Another aspect of this is that I can be literal-minded to a fault sometimes, so I kind of assumed it also covered playing with your sims privately, and not only uploading them and claiming as your own. And I didn't see why any reasonable person would care so much about that and still upload their sims knowing that they have no way to know if someone's doing as they ask.
Former Hamster
retired moderator
#7 Old 3rd Sep 2021 at 6:06 AM
The only sim I have up for download is my Robin Williams "inspired" sim. (Let's be honest, it's him even if that's not what I named him, lol.) I DO ask that people not change him because of who he's supposed to be. I literally grew up watching Robin Williams and when he died I felt like I lost a friend. So I made the sim and I'd rather he stay just like he is, and I think I did a pretty good job with him too. That nose!

If I were to ever upload any other sim, I wouldn't give a hoot what anyone did with them.
Field Researcher
#9 Old 3rd Sep 2021 at 5:15 PM
This kind of discussion happens everywhere from time to time. I once interacted with a computer programmer who said 'my source code is never available for download because there is no such thing as free software and other people should do their own work'. At the same time, there are plenty of programmers that make their source code freely available under a "some rights reserved" license or even as "public domain" so others can make suggestions, changes, even continue the work after the original programmer passes on.

Quote: Originally posted by Aspersim
I currently don't understand the question? , why have sometime up for download if you tell people you cannot use it for private usage?
I think the discussion here are creators that say it's OK to download their Sims/objects/etc., but they don't agree to having things like the clothing those Sims are wearing be changed and/or using something like a custom piece of clothing or skin tone on another Sim.

I personally haven't shared anything for upload (I don't think I have the ability to make clean enough files for upload), however I have uploaded screenshots before where I'm like 'here's the house I built to play this bin family, feel free to copy as a template'. I personally feel that Sim games are EA's, not mine. But others might feel that what they created for the game is their own, others are allowed to add it to their own game as-is under the creator's terms.

As far as Sims-related things go, I try to either avoid or minimize use of 'don't do your own stuff to characters you didn't create yourself' and especially 'don't take/upload screenshots of my characters/my sim clothing/my objects', that way if/when I'm like 'here's a screenshot of the Sim I'm talking about' someone else won't say 'hey that's my face preset/hair' or whatever.
Mad Poster
#10 Old 3rd Sep 2021 at 5:27 PM
I think what's meant is that they don't want you to for instance use the exact same face on the sim and reupload with just a couple things changed, like the clothes or hair. And perhaps not use the full sim as-is and take full credit for them in some or another way. If they're not okay with people using the sims for playing with or taking pictures of them, or using the sims for playing with genetics in CAS/Bodyshop or ingame, then they've probably misunderstood how people play their games these days.

The only things that are unique on a downloaded sim would be the face (if it is actually unique and not a default or preset or mix of presets by someone else), plus any CC the creator made for that particular sim that they haven't uploaded elsewhere than with that sim (or any other of their own creations). These items are probably the items they don't want uploaded elsewhere.
Mad Poster
#12 Old 3rd Sep 2021 at 7:15 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 3rd Sep 2021 at 7:30 PM.
Sometimes with downloaded sims it's not easy to keep track of which sim was downloaded where, and who made which sim, because unless you have a sorting system for sims in your Downloads folder, there's really no telling ingame which sim is which in the bin. If you play around with genetics and CC, things get even messier. If you only put EAxis items on a sim, there's only the face to go on. I struggle enough with keeping track of who's my own sims...

Most of the time I'm interested in the face or CC, but not really the full sim as-is. I rarely use downloaded sims as-is in my game. I'll change their CC to suit my game, and usually they'll not be particularly recognizable when I'm done with them. I'll basically treat them as an extra face template. I won't upload a sim if I've used a downloaded sim as a base (because I don't see the point of that since the original sim exists, and I very rarely upload sims anyway). I don't have any qualms against taking pictures of these sims in my game, though - half the fun for me is taking pictures.
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