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Top Secret Researcher
#26 Old 28th Dec 2013 at 5:17 AM
Heh. You're just trying to take offense now, aren't you?

Firstly, please tell me where I took offense at the values displayed in this challenge.

Secondly, it's called the Sexist challenge because it's modelling an extreme version of patriarchy. In the model women have no choices. You yourself said

Quote: Originally posted by ladykelien
It only becomes wrong, when men take that choice away from us or vice versa.


and in the behavior she's modelling, men take that choice away. It's not the sims that are being sexist, but the framework based on real sexism. And she's trying to show how horrible taking away choice is by giving us a model of what that looks like.


Now, I gotta wonder why you're so defensive that you couldn't even see something as simple as that. I've known plenty of housewives, and none of them are that insistent that they're being offended by something has nothing to do with them. Makes me wonder if you're not trying to convince yourself more than everyone else. Certainly fits the other times I've seen such defensiveness.
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Lab Assistant
#27 Old 28th Dec 2013 at 5:15 PM
Who says I'm offended. I just asked if I should be offended by all of you hating on this particular challenge. My point is still valid. I am not the one upset by this challenge. To me it is simply playing the Sims in the same manner I choose to live my life. Heck in the same manner so many of the girls I grew up with were raised to live their lives. Thus why I said my choices had nothing to do with religion. Most women these days who live this life do so because they believe they were "called by god". I have no such delusions.

My so called sensitivity was to the fact that you totally misunderstood what I was getting at and apparently still don't understand. My question is why are you so sensitive to my suggestion that this challenge can't be sexist for obvious reasons. It can't prove that this way of life is wrong. Now if you had options such as the husband actually being able to tell the wife to quit her job and it happening instantly, or the option to abuse your wife, then the sexist points would be valid. But, those options aren't there so the only question left is why the obsession with sexism? There are a lot of challenges like this out there. This one put in the word Sexism and you people go nuts. It's only sexism if the man gets a say and the only say anyone gets is you. If you don't like it, don' play it.

Y'all brought the idea that the way some of us choose to live our lives must be sexism into it. You could have called this the antebellum challenge or The 1950's housewife challenge and looked at it from a historical setting. Instead you choose to suggest that it had to be sexism and take offense to the idea of playing a challenge like this. Funny how someone taking offense to the challenge itself now accuses me of taking offense at her taking offense. All I did was ask a question.

My whole point in all of this is that you must consider the impression your going to give when you open your mouth. This is a housewife challenge regardless of the Sexism title. So what are you objecting to? The title or the idea that your female Sims don't work?

If I created a challenge where a woman with the required ambitious trait and family trait was to try and balance her career with child raising and called it The Bad Mother challenge and working was the only thing she did wrong, then I would be attacked for calling it a Bad Mother challenge. But, your objection would be to the name not the choice to raise children and work. The only objection anyone should have made to this is that it was titled poorly. Go back and read the comments about how people should be upset about this challenge and see why someone might get offended. You do have the ability to see another persons point of view, don't you? I don't think your that dense.
Top Secret Researcher
#28 Old 29th Dec 2013 at 3:53 AM
You really don't understand my point of view, so you're hardly one to talk. You're upset because you see a situation where choice is not a factor - and you've said that yourself - and immediately assume that your situation - where choice IS a factor - is exactly the same. Sound about right?

Frankly, I'm not offended by the challenge because I get what the author is trying to do. However, if someone took away a woman's choice in real life and forced her to be a housewife, then yes I'd be offended. A woman choosing to be a housewife? I don't care. Someone's gotta raise the babies, and I don't want it to be me. Besides, unless we want to force all men to take care of the kids - and I think that would be equally bad, since not all men want to do it - then some women are going to have to.

Okay, so looking back through the comments... We have someone complaining that their brother actually believes that women are inferior, someone explaining how "allowed" is spelled, someone questioning the goal of one million simoleans, someone disputing which skills are manly or not, someone pointing out a difficulty with Generations' poorly thought out grounding system, people asking for clarification, and people expressing enthusiasm for playing. Then DigitalSympathies asked why someone would want to play it and explained that she doesn't want to impose an artificial framework of sexism on her game. And I pointed out that the purpose of the challenge is to make people see how bad the framework is.

And in all, the comments are directed at the REAL LIFE situations where women are forced into this role. Which you have also said is bad.

And...this challenge is "the manner in which you choose to live your life"? The rules state that women aren't allowed to develop certain skills, must be married to a certain type of sim, must prevent their daughters from attending school once they become teens and force them to do housework, and force them to get married once they become young adults. So...you or your husband do all that? Because that doesn't sound like the average chosen housewife life to me.

Actually, you should try that. Make the Bad Mother challenge; I bet nobody will get upset. For that matter, if you make it decent, I'd probably play it. If not, you'll get people telling you how mediocre your challenge is, which is NOT the same thing as disapproving of your life. Just wanted to make that clear.
Lab Assistant
#29 Old 29th Dec 2013 at 6:40 PM
Message from a lurker: GUYS. IT'S A CHALLENGE NOT THE START OF A ZOMBIE APOCALIYSE ! Sorry for the caps, but can we all just be nice and get along? I'm not saying any of you are wrong, but I'm just saying everyone should try to not be at each others throats.

BTW the challenge is well thought out (in my opinion)
Lab Assistant
#30 Old 30th Dec 2013 at 5:26 PM
I agree Ihaveanawesomebro, My issue was never with the challenge itself. I started this out asking an honest question based upon the comments to the challenge. Should I be offended. I never said I was offended. My offense was never to the challenge. I started it yesterday. Admittedly I have played previous Legacy's similarly so I am getting a bit bored already. But the game play for it runs smoothly enough.

I never said people shouldn't play this challenge. I never said there was anything wrong with this type of game play. It was after reading the comments that I decided I wasn't really sure what people were saying and I was trying to get clarification. Should I be offended? It was the comment about replacing race with gender and see how you feel about playing this challenge that really got me. The comments were starting to make me feel as though they felt that any woman who choose to stick to traditional gender roles was in fact touched in some manner. At first I was sure that wasn't what was being said. It couldn't be. But, the more comments I read the more I wondered. So I asked... Should I be offended? I never expected anyone to be offended by my asking if I should be offended. I hit a nerve apparently. I'm not sure what that nerve was... Apparently I offended by suggesting that what was being said, not in the challenge, but in the replies to it, could be taken as an attack on someone's chosen lifestyle. Had the response to my question not felt so much like an attack, I would have said what I am saying now. Your all caps were not offensive. Being told I obviously have an issue because I asked if I should have an issue, was a bit unwarranted. All she had to say, was no that isn't what we were trying to say... Instead she attacked me for trying to get clarification.

If she had said, Yes that is what we are saying... I would have said okay, I am offended and walked away. That is all I would have said. Had she said, no we are talking about men who won't let the women in their lives live any other way and it is against their will... Then I would have said, Okay not offended but maybe watch how you word things so that you make them a bit more clear. What I wasn't expecting was an attack simply because I suggested that perhaps someone might be offended by the responses to this, So I responded in kind. What I should have said is what I said in my second response and in this one.

I apologize for mishandling the trampling I received for such a question. I never expected that someone could get so offended over my pointing out that they way they were wording things could be construed as an attack on the very people who choose to live that way.
Top Secret Researcher
#31 Old 30th Dec 2013 at 7:51 PM
...You considered my first response - which explained that we were talking about the men and not the housewifery, which is what you wanted - an attack?
Test Subject
#32 Old 16th Feb 2014 at 12:53 AM
I'm having a bit of fun with this challenge, no I don't approve of sexism but experimenting with it is fun. Here's a little optional rule I gave myself when doing the challenge:
-female sims cannot wear pants
-female sims cannot wear short dresses/mini skirts

happy simming!
Test Subject
#33 Old 16th Feb 2014 at 2:42 AM
Ok, first of all I'd like to say I'm sorry for all the hate the creator has gotten, and seriously sims aren't real! They don't care if you force them into "roles"! And if they did, what if you force them to be athletic and they always wanted to be a doctor hmm..? Anyways now that's out of the way I would like to say that I love the idea, I think I'm going to try this after I finish another challenge that I'm testing out. I'm really picky about my challenges, because I like things with a story that aren't something like: they can only use a bathroom once a day or they have to work out for 25 minutes no more no less. Cuz when that happens I'm like "Wha?! Why does it have to be so complicated?!" So ya...
Field Researcher
#34 Old 20th Feb 2014 at 5:18 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ladykelien
I'm sitting here as a stay at home mother of 6 who homeschools, doesn't drive because even with my glasses my eyesight and depth perception aren't good enough, wondering if I should be offended that so many of you think my way of life is offensive. Does my husband stop me from working? No. We both agreed that once we had kids one of us would stay home and he had the ability to make more money than I could.


Wow LadyK. I have a similar situation (although somewhat different). I too have a vision problem that prevents me from driving but I am the breadwinner for our family. Most of my married life my husband has been a stay-at-home dad and I have the utmost respect for it (I wish our roles were reversed, I'd rather stay at home).

Unfortunately, some will always be interested in challenges demeaning women or men. If it's got a REALLY good storyline behind it and it doesn't go too far, I am OK with it. Otherwise, really not my taste.
Field Researcher
#35 Old 20th Feb 2014 at 5:50 PM
Reminds me a little of the Sims 2 Rights of Women challenge. I built an entire neighborhood on those rules; I liked the progressive nature of that challenge. If I was more mentally energetic, I'd adapt it for Sims 3.

Edit: Or I'd find that someone's done it already on the official forums...and maybe decide to brave the official forums and see how that all worked out.
Mad Poster
#36 Old 20th Feb 2014 at 6:28 PM
Frankly, I like this challenge. Sometimes, I like to create characters, and not just necessarily in the Sims, that have opinions vastly differing from my own. Thus I created a huge family of about 80% horrible, horrible people where the vast majority of the men have ideas summarised as such in the OP. Based off the fucking nutty Quiverfull "branch" of Christianity, but at risk of starting a totally unnecessary religion derail, I'll not expand. But long and short of it is the rules outlined in the OP reminds me of this giant family of utter shit stains, and I'd be interested in playing a game like this.
Lab Assistant
#37 Old 18th May 2014 at 10:07 PM
I want to play this it seems SO interesting!!!
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#38 Old 19th May 2014 at 2:50 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Dat_sims3_girl37
can you try to have the girls learn "manly skills" in secret EXP: if a man/boy sees her trying to learn the skill the challenge is over


Good idea!
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#39 Old 19th May 2014 at 2:51 PM
Quote: Originally posted by 1259e
Ok, first of all I'd like to say I'm sorry for all the hate the creator has gotten, and seriously sims aren't real! They don't care if you force them into "roles"! And if they did, what if you force them to be athletic and they always wanted to be a doctor hmm..? Anyways now that's out of the way I would like to say that I love the idea, I think I'm going to try this after I finish another challenge that I'm testing out. I'm really picky about my challenges, because I like things with a story that aren't something like: they can only use a bathroom once a day or they have to work out for 25 minutes no more no less. Cuz when that happens I'm like "Wha?! Why does it have to be so complicated?!" So ya...


then I hope it isn't too complicated! ^^
Thanks for playing!
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#40 Old 19th May 2014 at 2:52 PM
Quote: Originally posted by youcrAzy
I want to play this it seems SO interesting!!!


Thanks! It is fun! :'D But very hard, I recommend using dragon valley if you have it. xD
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#41 Old 19th May 2014 at 2:53 PM
Quote: Originally posted by BL00DIEDHELL
Frankly, I like this challenge. Sometimes, I like to create characters, and not just necessarily in the Sims, that have opinions vastly differing from my own. Thus I created a huge family of about 80% horrible, horrible people where the vast majority of the men have ideas summarised as such in the OP. Based off the fucking nutty Quiverfull "branch" of Christianity, but at risk of starting a totally unnecessary religion derail, I'll not expand. But long and short of it is the rules outlined in the OP reminds me of this giant family of utter shit stains, and I'd be interested in playing a game like this.


Haha? I don't quite understand most of what you said but as long as you are having a lot of fun I don't care! ^^ Thanks for playing!!!
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#42 Old 19th May 2014 at 2:57 PM
Quote: Originally posted by ladykelien
I agree Ihaveanawesomebro, My issue was never with the challenge itself. I started this out asking an honest question based upon the comments to the challenge. Should I be offended. I never said I was offended. My offense was never to the challenge. I started it yesterday. Admittedly I have played previous Legacy's similarly so I am getting a bit bored already. But the game play for it runs smoothly enough.

I never said people shouldn't play this challenge. I never said there was anything wrong with this type of game play. It was after reading the comments that I decided I wasn't really sure what people were saying and I was trying to get clarification. Should I be offended? It was the comment about replacing race with gender and see how you feel about playing this challenge that really got me. The comments were starting to make me feel as though they felt that any woman who choose to stick to traditional gender roles was in fact touched in some manner. At first I was sure that wasn't what was being said. It couldn't be. But, the more comments I read the more I wondered. So I asked... Should I be offended? I never expected anyone to be offended by my asking if I should be offended. I hit a nerve apparently. I'm not sure what that nerve was... Apparently I offended by suggesting that what was being said, not in the challenge, but in the replies to it, could be taken as an attack on someone's chosen lifestyle. Had the response to my question not felt so much like an attack, I would have said what I am saying now. Your all caps were not offensive. Being told I obviously have an issue because I asked if I should have an issue, was a bit unwarranted. All she had to say, was no that isn't what we were trying to say... Instead she attacked me for trying to get clarification.

If she had said, Yes that is what we are saying... I would have said okay, I am offended and walked away. That is all I would have said. Had she said, no we are talking about men who won't let the women in their lives live any other way and it is against their will... Then I would have said, Okay not offended but maybe watch how you word things so that you make them a bit more clear. What I wasn't expecting was an attack simply because I suggested that perhaps someone might be offended by the responses to this, So I responded in kind. What I should have said is what I said in my second response and in this one.

I apologize for mishandling the trampling I received for such a question. I never expected that someone could get so offended over my pointing out that they way they were wording things could be construed as an attack on the very people who choose to live that way.


I know how you feel, I had to take down a thread because of the way I "worded" things. Its kind of insane. >.< Thanks for your comments, I appreciate them! ^^
Mad Poster
#43 Old 19th May 2014 at 4:14 PM
Quote: Originally posted by emmyzrulz
Haha? I don't quite understand most of what you said but as long as you are having a lot of fun I don't care! ^^ Thanks for playing!!!


TL;DR is basically "I made characters like this ages ago, and if the creator doesn't share those sexist beliefs there's nothing wrong with dabbling with those ideas in fiction".

(Also instead of making a bunch of posts in a row, you should really use the edit function. Just a heads up. )
Field Researcher
Original Poster
#44 Old 20th May 2014 at 2:52 PM
Quote: Originally posted by BL00DIEDHELL
TL;DR is basically "I made characters like this ages ago, and if the creator doesn't share those sexist beliefs there's nothing wrong with dabbling with those ideas in fiction".

(Also instead of making a bunch of posts in a row, you should really use the edit function. Just a heads up. )


Oh, Wow I didn't know you could do that! Yay! That is going to be awesome xD
But thank you, No i certainly don't share any sexist belief, I find it disturbing and honestly, I probably will redo this challenge just because its the first one i created and it could use some "tweaking" O_O
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