Hi all! I'm still working on restarting this challenge. I'm going to play it legacy style, meaning start with one sim, and progress the family until someone is rich enough to buy the title of king from the Church. I think it will take me at least 2 years of on and off play. I'm also working on tracking sheets I can keep beside me while I play.

I've got some questions about payments;

1. How do you pay your midwives? In cash or goods? What do you charge for attending a birth, and spell casting while on the premises. It doesn't really matter to me now, since there are no midwives (yet), but I'd still like to know for future reference and to set a standard.

2. For the rules for Romance sims who have had affairs, there is no specification for the Adultery Indulgence. How much is this? A set amount or a percentage of net worth/cash on hand.

There is no set amount specified for the adultery indulgence. Following the same principle for sentencing convicts, it is up to the player to determine the market value of such things, i.e. for what penalty works within the larger economy you have established, and for how strict, or lenient, you want the system to be. It is really up to you.

What I have done for midwives is have each sim pay her how they are able. A barter system has been the best way for me to work it out.

Heh, ironically, I came up with an almost identical challenge that I've been writing for a while without ever having seen this one. Mine is a combination of the Build A City, Prosperity, Self-Sufficiency and Royal Kingdom Challenges, and its has most of the same rules and rolls as yours (even requres the same mods), but you're class system is MUCH, MUCH more in depth than mine. Mine was limited to Royals, Subroyals, Nobles, Merchants, Peasants and Gypsies.

I'm really looking forward to trying your challange out, because hopefully it'll get me wanted to finish writing mine. I've had a basic summary posted on Boolprop.com for over a year now, but I've just lost the desire to finish writing it. Maybe playing this will help. It sure sounds like a lot of work, and that means a lot of fun.

Thanks for writing this!

Modified to add: You're site reminds me a lot of Ingelis old site for Windlebridge...if you haven't checked that out, you should. It was awesome and the inspiration for me to write my own challenge. You can check that out here: http://portal.charlamov.com/windlebridge/default.aspx

My summary for my challenge is here, just in case you were interested:http://www.forums.boolprop.com/view...p?f=187&t=44966 Please remember that I never finished writing it (I can play it, because I know the rules that I'm using, but making sure it'll be fun for other people is the hard part).

Also, Inge from Simlogical took on my idea to make a class system based on inventory objects and doors. Basically, there are 5 keys (for each main class) Basically, a sim with a green key in inventory can enter through a door that contains a green key in the room behind it (you can use move_objects on to place the keys). This system essentially helps divide you're class system, so peasants won't enter royal shops. TwoJeffs and Simbology.com even updated the Visitor Controller to work with the keys, so you can make a park that would only allow Purple Key Holders (royals), or even rooms in the castle that the servants can't enter...you get the idea. The color-keys class system can be found here, and I think you'll really like it: http://www.drealm.info/simlogical/s...2_ColorKeys.htm

Lastly, ChristianLovs All In One NPC and Nanny mod allows sims to hire OTHER sims in the neighborhood to come work at their house (or make a custom new NPC). Its awesome. It has NOT been updated for AL/MG, but it works perfectly fine. Just don't assign the maid to pay bills, because apparently AL changed that code (though it may be on apartments only, I've just never risked it). Thats here: http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=286864

Hope you don't mind me linking you to all this stuff.

Wow! Thanks for all of the great info here. I will definitely check these links out when I get an opportunity. I am currently swamped with grading, but I won't forget what you've told me--it's too, too utterly delicious! I appreciate your interest, and I hope you like the challenge. It's still a work in progress, but so far it seems to hold together. I welcome your insight and any game play stories/experience you bring to the discussion. Look forward to hearing from you further.

I really need to get this started. I'm just trying to come up with an idea for it that doesn't require too much alteration, but still feels more like a VTOS than a medieval kingdom. Been working at it for weeks, and still not much- but I will get there, and when I do, I'll be starting straight away. In the meantime, I hope to see a little more activity on this thread...

- VT

Hi all!
Loved your post, challenge and links, black lace -- most interesting! Hang in there, VT, looking forward to you having the time to get into this challenge! Sadly, I've been very busy lately, too, but anyway, here is:

- Just a quick update - Very exciting news in Simbury!!! At last I have set up my noble and lower classes prisons, using the Simlogical Prison hacks/system because of my first sim charged with a crime! David Digby is a serf with an evil alignment, and When the Sheriff and his men came for David, Sheriff Yates announced that David had been charged not only with Tax Evasion for the last three quarters, but also with Bribery 2nd Class and Arson – he’d taken money to burn out the holdings of folk loyal to the Queen. David had not yet confessed the name of who had hired him to do such a thing, and fortunately,
only one peasant farm had been burned out with no loss of life before David had been caught, but the talk in the village is suspicion of it being all Lord FitzSimmons’ (illegitimate son of the dead King) doing as a way of undermining the Queen and displacing young Prince Sylvain before he is old enough to protect his birthright. Everyone knows Alcinius wants the throne at any cost and will stop at nothing to seize it.

I am writing a story of all these and other doings in the kingdom of Simbury, and hopefully it will be ready soon for your reading pleasure! Happy Friday and Happy Renaissance Simming everyone!
Cheers, Vllygrl

It's not a matter of not having time, Vllygrl - just that I'm still trying to think of an idea. I've never tried to VTOS a challenge this detailed before! Thinking of something that fits is a lot harder than I expected. I'll get there... somehow.

By the way, looking forward to reading more of your story. How close are you to getting it finished?

- VT

edit: Still trying to think; still failing. I hate to say it, but I'm stuck! Anyone here got any tips for coming up with an idea?

Vllygrl, I love your updates--I can't wait to hear more of the story!

Nuidyaforever, my idea for this challenge comes from Shakespeare's King Lear, actually. The problem comes down to insecure leadership, court intrigue, secrecy, and Machiavellian cunning. Hence the opening for the lower classes to rise and the old, upper class aristocracy to fall. There should be some sort of instability in the monarch to allow for the birth of self-interest, capitalism, etc to emerge.

For my second start, I have devised this story line to begin: King Harold, the second son of a strong monarch, King Edgar, is brought to the throne out of desperation when his older brother unexpectedly dies just after being crowned monarch. Harold, the more athletic and lascivious of the two brothers never expected to rule. He had been made Duke of (??--still working out place names, sorry) just after he came of age. He squandered his inheritance in gambling and drink and married--against his father's wishes--a woman he was merely infatuated with. Harold's wife was the youngest daughter of a lesser lord, hardly the match for a King's son--even if he would never be crown prince, she was no match for a Duke. Her father, Lord Rochester of Brentwood, an Earl, was, however very wealthy, and very ambitious--and his support bankrolled Harold's gambling debt, and while simultaneously relieving his own mounting concern over providing a suitable match for his youngest of five daughters. Harold's union with Lady Larissa produced two children, a boy and a girl. Harold soon lost interest in his marriage and his conjugal visits to Larissa's palace in Hampton grew fewer and farther between as he chose to spend his time in Applemere carousing through a whole host of casual mistresses. Several years passed in this fashion as Harold actively avoided any contact with his brother's court.

Meanwhile, his older brother, Edward I, had joined with a foreign princess, Queen Margaret the Fair, whose union secured the interests of Warwick in the East, bringing an end to a longstanding rivalry between the countries of Warwick and Andover. However, after years of marriage, Edward I's union to Margaret failed to produce any progeny, though the country enjoyed relative peace and prosperity under his benign rule assisted by his father's loyal duchy and partially owing to Edward's strict adherence to the country's faith. Edward built the church and resisted enclosure of private lands, preferring to keep the peasantry well fed and relatively prosperous. In return, they gave their undying devotion to him and their strength in the fields. The relationship between Edward and Harold, while never wholly amicable, grew increasingly strained as the two brothers differed on nearly every major policy of state and faith.

Though Harold was by no means a scholar, he befriended a number of young nobles whose university experience led them to question the scholasticism of the ages. From them, Harold absorbed a certain irreverence for tradition, which shone in him as arrogance and disrespect for authority. He openly mocked his brother's rule and distanced himself from his father's loyal advisers, choosing instead to surround himself with poets, musicians, and philosophers whose modern ideas cast suspicion on the sacred beliefs and cultural inheritance of the past. Harold became a favorite with young, educated nobles who idolized him as a free thinker. Some even thought to start a conspiracy to put him on throne. Harold loved the attention, but knew their praise was empty. His strength lay in his arms, not his mind, and his true love in life was drink and women, not affairs of state. He found his place outdoors, in sun and air, on horseback and in the hunt, not at court in musty meeting rooms, surrounded by pedantic, supercilious old fools peering over heaps of scrolls, their watery eyes gazing out of shocks of unkempt white hair. Give him a tankard of ale, a stout horse, and a lusty wench, and Harold was a happy man. He didn't need responsibility, or so he thought. But then, he never thought he would rule.

Until, that is, Edward sickened. The plague was the great equalizer. When it arrived, many worthy people fell. Edward was among the first to die. Then, his good wife Queen Larissa. Without an heir to the throne, Edward's advisers began seeking a suitable monarch to put on the throne. All energies of the state resisted Harold--though the birthrights were his. Some factions sought to place his son, a boy of twelve, on the throne before him, reasoning that Harold, who kept his castle separate from his family's anyway, was an absentee of the court. Young Phillip would be a better ruler for the people, they reasoned, having been raised at court. However, Harold's popularity among university scholars and modern thinkers was not to be underestimated. Immediately upon his brother's death, Harold found he had a large following of intellectuals and artists who wished to see him placed on the throne, and though he never saw himself as a ruler--in fact, he'd actively avoided any such responsibility most of his life--something in his blood awakened a deep desire to be monarch. A monarch of a new world, a world of his own making.

But, of course, Harold has no idea what he has unleashed.

That's it for now--I am working on picture taking and getting it up on the website--soon! (If the kids let me near the computer, that is)

I was actually referring to setting rather than plot - that's the hard part, finding something that fits in with the challenge while still being a VT Original Setting. After all, I play to get away from Earth, not to recreate it. But you have given me something to think about, and despite not liking history in general I do like your backstory. How long did it take you to come up with all this? Well done for all of it. I probably wouldn't have the attention span to create a challenge like this.

Not that I'm going to let that stop me saying: VT requesting permission to adapt. Being a dice-rolling maniac myself, I love a lot of the ideas you've come up with for this, and I'd like to create a variation on this challenge for my main 'hood. Of course it would be a 'very loosely based on' because the 'hood I have in mind couldn't be less like medieval Europe if it tried. It's called Tuima Orakandli, home of the Nuidya tribe (who I took my username from, not the other way round- it will be four years old on April 16th!). The Nuidya don't have a class system, just a chief and council (all elected, by the way) and they tend to dislike strict rules, although they do have a strong code of honour. So like I said, it would be a very loose adaptation. I have a few ideas for things I'd like to add to make up for the lack of class-based anything there, but I'd just like to make sure the creator of the original challenge is OK with me using it as a base for something of my own. I don't intend to post it anywhere yet, but if I decide to I wil definitely give you credit.

As for settings for my attempt at the original challenge, I'm actually starting to think I might be able to come up with something now. Maybe I should just stop rambling on and go think. Thanks again for giving me something to work with.

- VT

Ah, I see--I didn't understand VTOS. I don't mind your adapting the challenge as long as you credit me with the original. I'd like to hear more about what you're considering since the class system is integral to the spirit of the Warwickshire challenge--that is, of course, not to say that an adaptation might retain other elements and lessen the importance of hierarchy. I am just curious, I think. Good luck with your thinking. I hope to hear more soon.

Sorry - I do tend to automatically use my personal Simming jargon all the time and forget that the rest of the world won't know what a 'VTOS' or a 'TIMU list' is. (TIMU stands for Things I Might Use, by the way- a list of elements of other challenges that I like and might be able to incorporate into other 'hoods. My latest TIMU list has quite a few elements of the Warwickshire challenge on it, which is what inspired me to adapt it.)

Speaking of which, I'm not really that sure what I'm planning for my adaptation. It's three in the morning where I am, my brain is full of dancing mice and everything's hilarious. I have a few ideas, but it's just a matter of stringing them all together and making sure everything makes reasonable sense. Which is a tall order at three in the morning.

I will also be doing your original challenge, I just need to come up with a good setting, like I said. Again, it's 3AM, so I think I'll have to sleep on it, but I'm getting there.

- VT

I just wanted to drop by to say I've go t the prologue and first chapter of The Tale of Warwick posted on my site now--under storyline. If you're interested, check it out. I'd love to have your input!

That... was... brilliant. And this coming from someone who isn't that big on history! It made me want to find out more about it. When will the next chapter be up?

- VT

Hi Everyone! Anyone still playing this challenge?

I think I'm on my 5th attempt, and I'm FINALLY happy with (feeling attached to) the sims I have in this family. It sounds weird, but I figure if I'm going to be spending so much time controlling their lives, I have to at least "like" them.

I started with Artemis Crane, he was quite lonely for the first few years before I added a mod that forces sim walkbys every hour during the day. He married Brandi LeTourneau, but she died after a miscarriage in the second trimester. His second wife is LaShawn Cameron, and she's had 2 full term pregnancies (a set of twins and a set of triplets) and one miscarriage (for which she was imprisoned) producing 5 children, one of whom died in infancy.

LaShawn and Brandy both came with HUGE dowries (inventories FULL of crap! Pianos, poker tables, hot tubs, bbq's etc) so the family was able to open a home business selling produce quite early.

Are there any time requirements for how long a family has to be at a particular level of Bourgeois? I know the stated requirements is Cash on Hand not less than %25 of a family's net worth, but he DID get all that dowry money...

Either way, I'm tired of farming. I'm going to upgrade the family to 'Middle Bougeois' and open a home business selling pottery and candles! Pottery wheels for everyone!

How are your games going?

There is no set time limit for any of the class stations--it just comes down to money and status, i.e. good old fashioned "power," though to get to the top, it will involve a bit of who you know, too. Sounds like this round is going well for you. I am still playing: this is my second attempt. All details and storylines, etc are on the website.

Hi everyone! Just wanted to let you all know I've restarted my blog with the new family I'm playing.

Happy Simming!!

http://warwickshirebycococure.blogs...og-this-is.html

I think i'll give this a go but first I'll read through that google doc.
It sounds fun and challenging!

It looks like you have a good start this time! I'm loving the pics

Digit198801--good luck with the challenge--be sure to post pics of your progress. I love reading sim stories.

How did you decide what the starting families Aspiration/Sign/Turnon/off's would be? Did you choose randomly?

Yes. I randomize everything. I think it does say something about rolling for aspiration, and I would do the same for the others in the founding family. However, that is really up to you. The challenge operates according to a different logic than the legacy challenges do, so your founding families are yours to decide upon. After that, born in game sims should have their aspirations and turn on/offs rolled for to ensure randomness and variety--especially since this is a key factor in determining life paths for both males and females.

You know what that means? Problem time for VT.

I'm busy with another project right now and will be until next week, but I want to start on this challenge as soon as possible. Only thing is... I have major issues with rolling for aspiration. It is the one thing I will not use dice for. I refuse to give a Sim an aspiration that I don't think is right for them just because a little cube of plastic says so. That's just one of the many reasons I hate legacies... although I do always leave the turn-ons/turn-offs as the random ones that show up when they become teens. I do use a variety of aspirations, but I just don't roll.

So, any way I can get around this? In most challenges that say 'roll for aspiration' I can just ignore it, but with the life path thing, I don't know what to do about it.

(That and still struggling with the setting! This could take a while.)

- VT

VT, you bring up a valid point here. I hate to think about anything in the challenge as being a hard/fast rule. They are more guidelines for play--they provide a structure for you to work within so that you can see the kind of variety and results that should create an interesting world. Soooo, do we have to roll for aspiration? Nope. We don't. If you want to hand select aspiration, that should be fine. Though, I would guess that many players are not so careful about reading their sims' personalities as you are VT, which is why I still think it's a good suggestion for most players to let this be randomized.

BUT (and this is a big one), we should roll for what happens after aspiration is determined--i.e. do all of the life path rolls. Not every family asp. female will become a wife--19/20 will. But that 1/20 chance does exist for that girl to go on to a second roll and become a spinster, or even a third role to become a governess, and a fourth role to become a midwife. This allows for variation among aspirations--so that aspiration does not determine one's fate solely. These are the roles that really count in the challenge. Not only because they give you some unexpected surprises in the storyline, but because they also are designed to realistically simulate the probability of a person becoming those other possibilities. And so you don't have every girl running off to seek a position at court, and you don't have a midwife lodged in every house and hovel in the village.

Hello Everyone ,
Sorry I haven't posted for such a long time -- I had spring break away from my computer for a couple of weeks and then the back to work re-entry was turbulent, as always! Anyway, in the meantime even without my computer, I have still managed to entertain myself simwise and slip in a few moments with Mom's computer to catch up on reading blogs! Here's what I was able to do: read through the updated rules which I had printed off, thank you, M3g7e, I like the tweaks! I also had time to think through a few details of this challenge to their logical next steps, revise my tracking sheets, tease out more of my storylines, follow this thread, and read all of M3g7e's and Coco's new blogs/stories,love them! I am still working on writing my collection of tales for this challenge, and need to take more pics before I am ready to post any. Also, I need to make a decision about where to post them, either here on the MTS stories bbs, a blog of my own, or a new webiste, as my old one was too weak and wobbly to handle the number of chapters in my longer stories. Eternally, I long for more time to both play my game and write my stories. Oh well, one day . . .

Anyway, just wanted to say hi! I am still out here lurking, playing the challenge, and haven't forgotten about all of you!

Cheers, Vllygrl

I usually roll aspiration for all my sims, but like M3g said, I use the ruleset more as "guidelines". I don't count RFP or CFP, and I don't give my sims good/evil alignment. I like to roll because otherwise all my male sims will be knowledge and all my female sims will be family. The randomness of the dice allows me to create more storylines for characters.

Ex. I have a female sim whom I've prerolled for (something I almost never do, but did this time for planning), and it turns out she's going to be a romance sim (GASP!!). I'm happy because I never create romance sims in my game, but for this situation it will work. Rather than roll again, and likely send her to a convent, I'm going to keep her at home and try to fulfill her wants as best I can. Once she's created enough drama and scandal, she'll be re-purposed to something more useful for the neighbourood.

VT - I use a combination of methods for choosing aspirations. I roll the aspiration for new CAS sims, but for in-game sims, on their teen birthdays I prefer to choose their aspiration based on the tendencies and personality traits I can kinda tease out when the sim is in childhood by closely watching their wants that come up -- that way, it seems like the aspiration is more "true" to the sim's personality because it comes out of the sim's "actual" development during gameplay. Then of course my storyline follows that.
Cheers, Vllygrl