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Original Poster
#1 Old 17th Sep 2022 at 6:10 PM
Default Does anyone else feel like the family asperation sims seem like Christian fundamentalists?
So I'm tweaking an old story about The Sims 2 characters that I never really finished. and as an Independent Fundamental Baptist playing the game, I've realized that the family sims who are constantly wanting to have babies and have lifetime wants of having huge families are a lot like quiverfull families like the Duggar family (who happen to be cut from the same denominational cloth as myself). Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that way?
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 17th Sep 2022 at 6:40 PM
You're never the only person who feels any given way about this game.

However, something we would all benefit from bearing in mind is: 90% of this game is in your head, and the more aware of that you are, the more control you'll have over the experience. We project things onto our sims and transform six aspirations, an array of sixty or so points across six attributes, and a lot of random AI behavior to create personalities (with the help of the training mechanism) in the same way that we take the content of fiction and collaborate with the creators to create characters. You can play a Family sim as a quiverful family if that's what you want to do, but that's far from the only thing you can do with it. There is no reason not to play one Family sim with a marry-off-six-kids or Have Six Grandkids want as a fundamentalist Christian who enforces strict gender roles, another as an Earth Mother pagan who has six children with six different partners, another as an asexual atheist altruist who just really likes taking care of people, never marries, and adopts the Newsons and the Critturs, and so on and on and on. Similarly, one Fortune sim may be a miser, another someone who gets a lot of satisfaction out of being The Provider and keeps stepping up for friends when they need a little help, another a workaholic who doesn't know what to do with their leisure time and surrounds themself with fancy things that are never Enough. One Romance sim is a heartbreaker, another makes one Grand Passion the center of their life, another is in love with love. Any aspiration can be free-spirited or hidebound, selfish or generous, kind or cruel, any gender or none, and espouse any set of beliefs depending on how they play for you and what worldview you project onto them.

And that, more than custom content or mods or anything else, is what makes this game so endlessly playable.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Mad Poster
#3 Old 17th Sep 2022 at 10:49 PM
I've always seen the game and it's inhabitants as all-American consumerists, consumed with buying, becoming wealthy and famous-as eternal social climbers who aren't satisfied with this year's model car, or that brand new house.
It reflects a time when our society was so fixated on those things (the 80's) that we forgot that the rest of the world exists.

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Mad Poster
#4 Old 17th Sep 2022 at 10:55 PM
I have romance and family sims often want to get married and have kids though romance ones are likely to delay starting their families until later and have fewer kids most of the time or have them starting a little later on after enjoying some romance as a married couple and mine use birth control if they're not ready to start families even in games like my Pleasantview game taking place in the 17th century as an Early American colonial settlement.The only time birth control was unavailable in Pleasantview was when a bad group moved in and took over forcing all couple just wanting to have romantic fun with each other to risk pregnaicies and a lot of unwanted and unloved children were born in thise times and a lot of unplanned babies were born causing families to get broken up just before they got caught up in the witch hunts and witch trials to get after that group.That happened in the latter part of the 17th century when the real history had the Salem Witch Trials and that's a dark part of my Pleasantview history.
Mad Poster
#5 Old 18th Sep 2022 at 12:45 AM
Having huge numbers of children is part of the fundamentalist Christian lifestyle, but I don't think all of those fundamentalist Christians who do that actually want to have that many kids, they've just been brainwashed into thinking they have to. Family sims actually do want lots of kids, some people are just like that and that's fine. There are probably plenty of non-fundamentalists who would probably like a bigger family, but can't have one for financial reasons, or etc.
Theorist
#6 Old 18th Sep 2022 at 2:21 AM
I never had the impression of "Christian fundamentalists" (but we don't have that many of them were I live, so maybe they're just not as present in my mind), but I have heard them described as "Stepford Wives who just want to give birth to children and sex up their husband"(why that person chose to single out female family sims is anybody's guess)

I just kinda see them as Sims who just happen to take pleasure in being in a caregiver role and who really believe in the concept of long lasting happiness in marriage and family.

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Taking an extended break from Sims stuff. Might be around, might not.
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retired moderator
#7 Old 18th Sep 2022 at 2:42 AM
No, because while some Christian fundamentals follow quiverfull not all do, and fundamentalism covers a lot more things than family size. Other groups/beliefs also have large families such as the Mormons and Muslims.

You certainly can play and pretend that family sims are Christian fundamentals because this is the beauty of sims 2. It's a sand box life simulator that allows you the player to decide what the game will be.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Instructor
#8 Old 18th Sep 2022 at 3:17 AM
I don't think of family sims as being like any group of people in real life, I just think of them as family sims. And their aspiration is just one part of who they are as a person - there's their daily and lifetime wants, their hobbies and interests, their general look, and all those things they do autonomously that play a part in how I see them. I have never played a family sim as a Christian fundamentalist because I don't feel good about having real religion in my game. I'm a Christian and to me it gets really weird and uncomfortable seeing sims mess up faith by being sims .
But I have once played a cult challenge, where all the members of the cult had rules for how they could live out their daily life and I had more family sims than other sims in the cult because they just seemed to function better there. They were supposed to stick to certain moral rules regarding marriage and woohoo and the firstborn in each family couldn't take a job or get a family of their own until all the children in the family were teens.or adults. They had to do a lot of the household work while their parents were at work or out trying to gain new members, so I just always made the oldest child a family sim to make it easier on them.
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Original Poster
#9 Old 18th Sep 2022 at 4:11 AM
Quote: Originally posted by FranH
I've always seen the game and it's inhabitants as all-American consumerists, consumed with buying, becoming wealthy and famous-as eternal social climbers who aren't satisfied with this year's model car, or that brand new house.
It reflects a time when our society was so fixated on those things (the 80's) that we forgot that the rest of the world exists.

The 80s was also the era of Jack Hyles, Jerry Falwell, and the Moral Majority, further supporting my theory.

Also, I can tell you as an IFB myself there most certainly are fundamentalists who actually want that many kids. I've run into high school age girls in church who go to public school and haven't had completely sheltered lives but have no interest in things like college or careers and are all about getting married and having a huge family. I wouldn't say it's the norm even in IFB circles (certain cults on the other hand...), but it's definitely a thing.

But I see Peni's point, I probably see it that way because that's the lens I look at the game through, being an IFB myself.
Theorist
#10 Old 18th Sep 2022 at 11:13 PM
Let's not forget that Family teens still can roll wants to go to College, and that Family Sims can have a LTW to graduate 3 children from college. Now I haven't played in a while, but don't they also roll wants for their children to do well in school and for their children to go to college?
So it's not like Family Sims are generally dis-interested in education.

Quote: Originally posted by bnefriends
being an IFB myself.

Sorry, I'm not American and English is technically my second language. What's an "IFB" in this context?

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Taking an extended break from Sims stuff. Might be around, might not.
Mad Poster
#11 Old 18th Sep 2022 at 11:45 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Orphalesion
Let's not forget that Family teens still can roll wants to go to College, and that Family Sims can have a LTW to graduate 3 children from college. Now I haven't played in a while, but don't they also roll wants for their children to do well in school and for their children to go to college?
So it's not like Family Sims are generally dis-interested in education.


Sorry, I'm not American and English is technically my second language. What's an "IFB" in this context?


I am American and had to reread the first post. IFB, I assume is Independent Fundamental Baptist
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retired moderator
#12 Old 19th Sep 2022 at 12:28 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Debby1957
I am American and had to reread the first post. IFB, I assume is Independent Fundamental Baptist


Thanks. As an Aussie I also had no clue although I assumed the F was Fundamental in some form.

"I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives." - Unknown
~Call me Jo~
Mad Poster
#13 Old 19th Sep 2022 at 1:33 AM
I'm sure there's people of all stripes, fundamentalist or not, that want large families. That's a thing, too.
Forum Resident
#14 Old 19th Sep 2022 at 2:34 AM
I don't see sims as having a religion, so for me, Family sims like to have lots of children just because. They value a stable, life-long marriage and have a strong sense of connection to one's relatives. This is a general interpretation; of course individual sims vary within this aspiration.
Scholar
#15 Old 19th Sep 2022 at 12:22 PM
I just found out from watching Season 4 of Stranger Things...


I enjoy pairing aspirations with unlikely characters and finding story there. All of my Family Sims seem to be quite different. Not all of them want a lot of children either. For some of them, "family" means more than just their own spouse and children.

Brandi Broke is a fierce single mom who always puts her children first and sacrifices for them. She may be strict she loves them unconditionally and genuinely wants them to succeed on their own terms.

John Burb is the kind of laid-back fun dad who would rather stay home and play with his kids than do anything else, including having a career.

Cassandra Goth has always idealized family and thinks just having a family will make her happy, so she pursues that single-mindedly without giving a lot of thought as to what she really wants or who she wants to have that family with. Unfortunately, being married to Don, she will probably come to a rude awakening.

Pollination Tech #9 is the goofy, clueless, but loving sitcom-type dad. Jenny Smith is mom to everybody, not only her own kids but also their friends and all the other hapless Sims like Nervous, Lola and Chloe, and her own brothers.

Albany Capp is the traditional, conservative father figure. He wants to be a provider and has rejected the Capps' dirty money. His wife stays home with the kids. They aren't religious but he would say they have strong values, so he's closest to the fundamentalist type. His family is a reflection of him, which is why Miranda rebels.

The Montys value the Monty family name above all else. If you're a Monty, you're loyal to your family first. Romeo switched his aspiration to Family in college after deciding he wanted to carry on the Monty tradition and be the family heir.
Mad Poster
#16 Old 19th Sep 2022 at 9:37 PM
I suspect that some of my family sims in my Pleasantview game are just going to want to have a stable home life and start a family with children while others would want a large family with lots of children.One factor that affects what is a large family and what size is a small family is the economic state of the tow overall.The average family sizes in tough times tend to be smaller and most couples would start families much later and have fewer children when time are hard and when things are going well larger families started earlier are more common.There will always be a few not having children or getting married and some who only have one child late in life because they struggled for too long and weren't able to have a child until late in life.
Field Researcher
#17 Old 20th Sep 2022 at 12:06 AM
There's no religion in the Sims, unless you put it in.

My take is that Family Sims enjoy Families for what they are. Some Sims want to breed like bunnies on MDMA, but other Sims I have played are cool with one or two, and have lots of quality time and interaction. Most of them are pretty faithful and committed, and are in it for the long haul, for better or for worse.
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Original Poster
#18 Old 20th Sep 2022 at 10:09 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Orphalesion
Let's not forget that Family teens still can roll wants to go to College, and that Family Sims can have a LTW to graduate 3 children from college. Now I haven't played in a while, but don't they also roll wants for their children to do well in school and for their children to go to college?
So it's not like Family Sims are generally dis-interested in education.


Sorry, I'm not American and English is technically my second language. What's an "IFB" in this context?


To clarify, fundamentalists aren't always disinterested in education, in fact there are numerous colleges in the US that were started by fundamentalists, such as Pensacola Christian College, Bob Jones University, Liberty University, Crown College, and Maranatha Baptist University. I was referring to a specific person. And the others are correct that IFB means Independent Fundamental Baptist.
Forum Resident
#19 Old 20th Sep 2022 at 10:28 PM
Quote: Originally posted by bnefriends
So I'm tweaking an old story about The Sims 2 characters that I never really finished. and as an Independent Fundamental Baptist playing the game, I've realized that the family sims who are constantly wanting to have babies and have lifetime wants of having huge families are a lot like quiverfull families like the Duggar family (who happen to be cut from the same denominational cloth as myself). Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that way?


hmm well, I am walking on eggs, but , you've got a skewed opinion due to your own background. You probably pointing fingers on something, s the sims is underground know as a parody of the American Way of Life, especially the first games of the series, but we don't really know if we can discuss about this,we can find many reasons to tell "you are right" , just because this lifestyle is sharing by so many other religions worldwide and cultures.

To me , as not American, and Lay, that's not a problem. Because playing with life deals with playing with people who wants big families and people who dislike Children, like in real life, there is not a religious thing, but plenty of families truly want to have a big families and there is not only / not often a religious purpose.
I do not feel the same as you, I am sorry.

I speak French only. If my statements are harsh, rude for you, that's not intentional. I just think Different due to my Language and my Culture.
But truly, I am open-minded than you think of.
Mad Poster
#20 Old 21st Sep 2022 at 6:45 PM
Some people want big families, some want small families, some want no kids at all and some don't want to be married, in a relationship - whatever. Let them be. I like to play big families in sims because they are more challenging. And more fun. Although some singles also have been challenging, It is a game. Your sims can remind you of whomever you want them to remind you of - it is called imagination
(Africans believe in huge families - children are the real wealth, not money, and elders are seen as wise - and, yes, I live here).
Theorist
#21 Old 21st Sep 2022 at 8:21 PM
Quote: Originally posted by bnefriends
To clarify, fundamentalists aren't always disinterested in education, in fact there are numerous colleges in the US that were started by fundamentalists, such as Pensacola Christian College, Bob Jones University, Liberty University, Crown College, and Maranatha Baptist University. I was referring to a specific person. And the others are correct that IFB means Independent Fundamental Baptist.


Nah, I was just writing that in response to what you said about the girls from church you know who have no interest in college, just marriage and babies. To that I answered that Family Sims often do have an interest in education, especially when it comes to the education of their kids.

I see those family Sims as the kind who want to spend their "golden years" as matriarch/patriarch of a large, successful extended family where each of their children has found the corner of the world that makes them happy and then they all gather back "home" for a family reunion or some such.

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Taking an extended break from Sims stuff. Might be around, might not.
Instructor
#22 Old 23rd Sep 2022 at 10:59 AM
I never saw that but I'm also not an American. I rarely get the 'have 10 children' want from family sims. I usually give them 3 kids, they want more for a while and then stop wanting. I see them more as those family channels that are rather conservative than extremely religious.
Mad Poster
#23 Old 23rd Sep 2022 at 8:10 PM
Quote: Originally posted by bnefriends
To clarify, fundamentalists aren't always disinterested in education, in fact there are numerous colleges in the US that were started by fundamentalists, such as Pensacola Christian College, Bob Jones University, Liberty University, Crown College, and Maranatha Baptist University. I was referring to a specific person. And the others are correct that IFB means Independent Fundamental Baptist.


I live in the South of the USA which is considered the Bible Belt and I have never heard of an Independent Fundamental Baptist. I've heard of a Baptist and Southern Baptist but not an Independent Fundamental Baptist. So what's the difference?
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Original Poster
#24 Old 20th Dec 2022 at 1:03 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Debby1957
I live in the South of the USA which is considered the Bible Belt and I have never heard of an Independent Fundamental Baptist. I've heard of a Baptist and Southern Baptist but not an Independent Fundamental Baptist. So what's the difference?


I just saw this, since your post was around the time Hurricane Ian hit and I wasn't on here due to utility outages. This may answer your question a little: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Baptist. IFBs are a diverse group, but are generally very old school. Most of us are either King James Only or at least Textus Receptus only. Many of us are big on singing old hymns during worship service instead of more modern music, though to me that is more of a preference than some sort of hard doctrine (to some it is hard doctrine). IFBs usually eschew things like alcohol, tobacco, drugs, and gambling. IFBs may dress conservatively (with women wearing dresses and men wearing suits to church, sometimes extending this beyond just in church), though I've definitely seen IFBs girls wear short-shorts to church, so that's far from a hard and fast rule. There should be an emphasis on "independent" here, the beliefs vary from church to church and in some cases from person to person. This is where I go to church, for reference: https://www.fbcnorthport.org/

I hope that answers your question.
Mad Poster
#25 Old 20th Dec 2022 at 11:30 AM
Not to me. I don't see the aspirations as meaning that is the ONLY thing that matters to that sim, more that it is a theme which is central in their life - they can (and in my game they definitely do) have other interests, drives and ambitions aside from their aspiration.

IRL there are people who have a yearning for children, who always imagined themselves becoming parents, for the experience, who love babies and toddlers, who think a full house is the best thing ever - that's a family sim to me.
There are people who follow fashion, who always need to keep on top of what's hot, who like celebrity gossip, who wouldn't be seen dead with last year's brand, who are concerned with keeping up appearances - that's a popularity sim to me.
There are people who are ambitious, gain gain gain, work hard, financial security is what makes them feel safe. Those are fortune sims to me. They're not always flashy with their wealth. Sometimes they hoard it.
There are people who feel powerful when they are desirable. They want people to want them. They have a high sex drive and few inhibitions. They may be controlling. That is a romance sim.
There are people who are curious. They want to understand the world. They like to read and watch documentaries. They are knowledge sims.
And there are people who don't take life too seriously, who do what feels good now, have modest dreams. Those are pleasure sims.

Most people are a combination of at least two, which is why secondary aspirations are great. If I could add aspirations to the game, I'd add the following:

Creative - people who just want to make life beautiful, tell a story, create music. They have a deep and sometimes spiritual soul. It can be torturous sometimes.
Kindness - people who can't bear the thought of suffering and want to make everything better. They try to protect the environment, they are kind to animals, they try to help people and do good.

I wouldn't want to add so many as for example in Sims 4, but I do think those two are missing.

I also think if you're experiencing the game as repetitive with as soon as you get one bonus/child/conquest the game wants you to do another, try slowing down. You can still have your sims work towards goals, but more slowly.

I use the sims as a psychology simulator...
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