I was wondering if the "controller" modded NPC objects are safe? I see a lot of really cool CC objects that are actually NPC's such as the surfing interaction or certain robots that will zap the deviants or such. Now I know some NPC's are dangerous to make selectable, especially object ones (Grim Reaper etc), do these fall into that category? Is it safe to get rid of them later on or will that cause corruption unless you do clean up in SimPE?

I haven't seen anything in instructions included with any I have downloaded, but I did notice Paladin's attack robot I couldn't delete right away once I placed it (said I couldn't pick it up). But if I turned it on, then off, I could pickup/move/delete. Could this leave extra data I need to clean out with SimPE? I didn't save after I placed it so I know nothing has been added to the neighborhood data yet.

The NPC objects are not considered safe to remove from your Downloads folder without cleaning up the references first. It's basically like improperly deleting a sim from a neighborhood.

If you want to remove the object:
Someone (can't remember who) said that if the NPC item and the object come separated, you can keep the NPC item in your downloads and remove the object, which should in theory go around the problem.. Haven't tried this, so can't give any guarantees it'll keep anything safe.

So whether or not they're safe, I guess comes down to whether you plan to keep the items around, and/or whether you know how to remove sim references properly.

If you just want to test out the items, you can make a test game (a bit risky with just a test neighborhood - simply make a full copy of your "The Sims 2" folder in Documents, and use one as the backup, you can keep the "copy" name in the back so you know which is which. The one with the original name is the one the game will read) and see if the items are worth it.

That is what I was afraid of. Anyway to know how to find the references to zap before deleting/removing it? I am guessing they are different for every controller/object/NPC

Custom NPCs come with their own character file, which you generally put in your Downloads folder. While it is in the downloads folder, you should treat it as an untouchable NPC, although messing around with them won't corrupt your actual game, just that character file in Downloads, which is a problem because that character file is being used by every one of your neighborhoods. If you move the character file into the Characters folders in each of your neighborhoods and take it out of Downloads, I believe at that point it becomes a regular sim that has a unique character file and set of data in each neighborhood and there's *probably* no problem with modifying it, although if you start doing creative things with those sims the mods they came with probably won't work right. Regardless, you cannot remove the character file from neighborhoods where the NPC exists, just like you can't remove any other character file from a neighborhood.

Other objects that might come with a custom NPC are just objects, you can delete or do anything else with them just like you can any other object.

Now that you mention it, I think I saw somewhere a mention of putting them in the characters folder. I can't remember where though. So, if the object has two files, it likely can't be deleted? I wasn't thinking of 'selecting' them or doing anything odd, just deleting later on if I decided I didn't like it and remove it from downloads. But sounds like once it is in there you don't want to do that. It is interesting that these NPC objects don't have warnings in their instructions. Or at least I haven't come across one yet that said "Don't delete or select or use other than intended or it will nuke your neighborhood."

I think a lot of the objects were made before this was widely known, so the warnings came at a later point. Some of the creators of these objects may still not be aware of the issues.

You just can't delete the file that is the character file. Probably one of the files is a character file, and the other file is a regular object or controller. The latter can be deleted. You can check which one is the character file by opening them in SimPE, and probably one of them will contain character data like Age Data, for example, that one is the character file. If you delete the controller, the mod will probably cease to function and the NPC will no longer appear in the neighborhood, but it will still be there in the default family so it won't cause any problems for the neighborhood.

Well I would zap both (or was planning on it then thought I had better ask before doing after reading many of them are NPC's), but only after I removed it from the lot and all instances of it in the neighborhood. But it sounds like the character data is still going to be referenced somewhere and might cause issues down the road.

Hmm I wonder if Hoodchecker could find and fix this?

@kestrellyn
Will any NPC that one wouldn't want to delete/remove from Downloads always have Age data in it? I have several that say they are controllers or even NPC but when I look inside I don't see any Age data or some other character traits. But perhaps I missing something?

I would expect them to have Age Data, but I don't know for sure that all of them do. Also, while I think a lot of early NPC creators called their NPCs controllers, controller in general just means an object that runs a script, which is in many cases not an NPC. Which mod is it?

For the actual NPC character file, removing all instances of the NPC is not good enough to be able to delete it. You shouldn't delete it at all.

Well several of paladins' objects would seem to be NPC's. His robots for example, and being old, I doubt this problem with NPC's was known at the time. The the surfing interaction one I linked above is an NPC for certain.

Well the problem I see is, it could be a NPC and no way of really knowing if there isn't a certain way of telling in SimPE. And then you might delete/remove a mod without knowing causing your hood to go boom later on.

Another BIG problem I see is you find one mod that has a conflict with another mod. So you remove the one, not realizing it has a NPC in it.

At this point I'm not going to do any more mods as if I run into a conflict or problem (or just don't like it) I am taking a huge risk in removing one. This is a shame as I find half of the fun of Sims 2 is playing with mods and the game under-the-hood (in safe ways). At least until I find a way to fix a deleted mod NPC situation.

The surfing mod has a file with NPC in the name that has an Age Data, so I don't see the confusion there. SimWardrobe's stuff requires OFB, so I would guess they use the regular EA robot NPC. NPC character files are not going to conflict with anything else, just like character files in your neighborhood don't conflict with anything else.

No confusion at all with the surfing mod. I knew that has a NPC file and it has age data. I was just giving it as an example of something with a NPC character that if I had to remove the mod then what. But of course I now see this was a bad example as the NPC is separate and could be left in downloads while everything else was removed without issue.

You should generally be able to predict whether something has an NPC. They're used to move sims or objects around the lot. Like a bicycle mod, or farm animals that walk, or paladin's robots. Some mods create an npc that you can see, like the bonehilda mod.

I've never seen an NPC where this doesn't apply.
https://modthesims.info/showthread....293#post5259293

Nothing wrong with NPC mods, just don't remove the NPC. This also goes for multi plant sim or PT mods.

Thanks omglo, that is what I was looking for. I knew there had to be something definitive that said NPC inside the package. So it is under object data then in the resources it will often say NPC but even if it does not, click on it and in the object data editor, the far right for type will be PERSON if it is a NPC correct? I did find a few controllers that said "sim type" but I assume that isn't a NPC.


I didn't say there was anything was wrong with NPC mods. The problem could be if you didn't know there was a NPC inside it, and you had two mods conflicting and needing to remove one (and you removed it without knowing causing your hood to go boom).

Also, if the NPC is part of the main mod and not separate, then you have a problem is my thought. Hence trying to figure out the definitive way how to tell if a mod has a NPC inside it so I don't add/remove one by accident, and if there is some way to remove it anyway if needed. I am sure it would require SimPE and a long process as it does for removing Sim's (and of course risky). But still possible.

Like I said to you in the other thread, I've never heard of overrides being packaged together with an NPC character file. If you have *any* example of this at all of this happening, feel free to link it.

You asked if they were safe in the title, I was answering that.

I have not ever seen or heard of a conflict with an NPC mod and can't imagine one. If someone pulls the download then you are back to does this or does this not matter? I learnt it did matter from Mootilda many years back RIP, so I am sticking with that since she isn't here to say she changed her mind. If other people want to go with Chris Hatch or someone else's take that deleting sims is fine is up to them.

On older uploads you might not know if the item contains an NPC as creators back then didn't know about the dangers of deleting sims or saying it contained a sim. You can check the files for 'npc' or the word 'controller' but if the content in question moves about the lot assume it contains an NPC and treat it accordingly.
Most NPC mods work like the NPC remote control car. If you watch how that runs around your lot that is being controlled by a game based NPC. Same with the games bird.

Deleting sims from the bin is different than deleting character files from the neighborhood, including character files containing NPCs. Deleting character files is not safe, and will corrupt your neighborhood.

All controllers aren't npcs and Simtype files aren't npcs. That's a different thing.

Yes I found that out near the start of this thread. I figured Simtype was different but wanted to confirm.

@joandsarah77
I should have titled the thread better. Yes I found out the age makes a difference with the mods as they didn't know back then. Which is why I wanted a definitive way of telling if a mod had a NPC in it. You can't go by the name 'controller' as some do and some don't. The only for certain aspect is to dig into it with SimPE. Which I am happy to do, now I know what to look for.

@kestrellyn
I don't have any example of one no, but anything can conflict. I am not talking about the NPC itself, but what it does might conflict with another mod that has a NPC inside it. And perhaps you liked the one without the NPC better and wanted to kill the one with the NPC. Most have the NPC aspect as another file than the scripts making it easy to 'disable' it but some may not. Especially older ones, hence the asking how to disable those and what to do. And I know deleting from the sim family bin is far different than deleting character files. There are safe ways (although risky, laborious, and debated) to delete normal sims, so I was wondering if there was a similar way for NPC mods.

Why I was asking is not because I was having the problem but looking ahead, finding older mods that aren't labeled as they didn't know and trying to plan as best I can so I don't get bit in the backside by something that was totally avoidable.

Thank you all for the info. I was hoping there was a possible removal method, but at least there are ways to determine if a Mod has a NPC (preferably before installing) and disable one later on without removing the NPC part if needed.

No, it's not true that "anything can conflict". If the package has no overrides, there's pretty much no way it can conflict with anything else. If it's a static object, like an NPC, or a couch, or whatever, it doesn't "do" anything and can't conflict even ideologically, unless you consider it a "conflict" to have modern furniture installed at the same time as medieval furniture, or something.

Yes, I should have been more specific. Anything active can conflict if it is trying to do the same thing or similar (accesses the same areas) and you forgot that another mod did that. Or forgot you had it installed. And no I certainly wouldn't consider odd fashion design choices to be 'conflicts'.