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Original Poster
#1 Old 8th Jan 2022 at 4:00 PM
Default Good news for TS3's shadow distance!
Hey everyone. You might recall some threads I've been posting in a similar vein.

I'm making a new one for this because I think it's something a whole lot of you will appreciate. For those not following LazyDuchess on tumblr, they're now working on this for TS3! It's still a WIP at the moment, but LD mentions possibly working it into an ASI mod once it's complete, similar to Smooth Patch or the Shader Framework hosted on their tumblr.

https://lazyduchess.tumblr.com/post...i-managed#notes

You have been chosen. They will come soon.
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 9th Jan 2022 at 5:53 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Jathom95
Hey everyone. You might recall some threads I've been posting in a similar vein.

I'm making a new one for this because I think it's something a whole lot of you will appreciate. For those not following LazyDuchess on tumblr, they're now working on this for TS3! It's still a WIP at the moment, but LD mentions possibly working it into an ASI mod once it's complete, similar to Smooth Patch or the Shader Framework hosted on their tumblr.

https://lazyduchess.tumblr.com/post...i-managed#notes


Yessss

Miracles are still being worked 13 years later!

(And yet this is proof of how frustrating TS3 is, it was always a hair away from being perfect.)
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#3 Old 9th Jan 2022 at 9:21 PM
The development team already said in interviews that TS3 is intentionally the way it is for the sake of allowing the majority of the fanbase to play the game. Which means without increasing the system requirements so much that the game would need nothing less than a gaming desktop/laptop. Also, if I remember correctly, TS3 was in production from 2004-2009. Yes, as soon as TS2 came out, TS3 was already in the beginning stages of development. How do I know that? Because I looked up the A.I. designer's, Richard Evans, profile and saw that he worked with EA on TS3 during that time.

Another thing worth mentioning is that shadows can take a lot from the GPU and is why TS3 has a shadow limit for performance reasons.

TS3 is not meant to go beyond whatever that limit or limits is/are. Especially for those who do not even have dedicated gaming hardware to support it, but either way it's also about the limitation of the game engine. Personally, I do not have any issues with shadows as I'm more concerned with actual meaningful gameplay than just how pretty something looks at the possible cost of performance. To me, TS3 is a very beautiful game as is, despite its outdated game engine/graphics.


Perhaps this video can help some who are not so computer savvy. And no I don't consider myself, but I do know at least the basics and the rest I learn from someone's else's knowledge showing the work so I can see for myself and trial and error learning as I go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW2m14vzFM8

Previous Game: Batman Arkham Asylum GOTY Edition (100% riddles completed; now I know why I've always been fascinated with The Riddler, lol.)

Next Game: Batman Arkham City GOTY Edition
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Original Poster
#4 Old 9th Jan 2022 at 9:42 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Deshong
The development team already said in interviews that TS3 is intentionally the way it is for the sake of allowing the majority of the fanbase to play the game. Which means without increasing the system requirements so much that the game would need nothing less than a gaming desktop/laptop. Also, if I remember correctly, TS3 was in production from 2004-2009. Yes, as soon as TS2 came out, TS3 was already in the beginning stages of development. How do I know that? Because I looked up the A.I. designer's, Richard Evans, profile and saw that he worked with EA on TS3 during that time.

Another thing worth mentioning is that shadows can take a lot from the GPU and is why TS3 has a shadow limit for performance reasons.

TS3 is not meant to go beyond whatever that limit or limits is/are. Especially for those who do not even have dedicated gaming hardware to support it, but either way it's also about the limitation of the game engine. Personally, I do not have any issues with shadows as I'm more concerned with actual meaningful gameplay than just how pretty something looks at the possible cost of performance. To me, TS3 is a very beautiful game as is, despite its outdated game engine/graphics.


Erm, yes. I know it was probably for performance reasons in 2009. And I didn't say that that TS3 is an ugly game without this. Far from it.

But I don't see any harm in doing something like this either for a completely optional mod. The way LazyDuchess goes about making them show up for longer distances could possibly be more performance friendly than just straight up making them stretch out farther. I can't really say without knowing what method they're using to do so.

If it's optional like this is presumably going to be, and someone has the hardware to utilize it - I don't see any problem with something like this at all. It's no different than turning down options in the options menu, which even EA recommended to do if your system was underpowered to play the game. If this ended up causing performance issues on someone's setup, just simply uninstall it.

You have been chosen. They will come soon.
#5 Old 10th Jan 2022 at 5:41 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Deshong
The development team already said in interviews that TS3 is intentionally the way it is for the sake of allowing the majority of the fanbase to play the game. Which means without increasing the system requirements so much that the game would need nothing less than a gaming desktop/laptop.


That's funny because it caused two of my much later computers, made after the game came out, to dangerously overheat.
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Original Poster
#6 Old 10th Jan 2022 at 5:56 AM Last edited by Jathom95 : 12th Jan 2022 at 6:48 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by BlackjackGabbiani
That's funny because it caused two of my much later computers, made after the game came out, to dangerously overheat.


Did you happen to enable Vsync in your graphics control panel on either one? Just wondering. It's basically a requirement for TS3 since the FPS can shoot up into the 100s and massively overwork your graphics card.

You have been chosen. They will come soon.
Mad Poster
#7 Old 10th Jan 2022 at 9:37 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Deshong
The development team already said in interviews that TS3 is intentionally the way it is for the sake of allowing the majority of the fanbase to play the game. Which means without increasing the system requirements so much that the game would need nothing less than a gaming desktop/laptop.

It may have been made that way to allow people with potatoes to run it in 2009, but here we live in 2022 where even the slowest laptops on the market currently can run 256x256 shadow maps rendered at far distances from the camera.

Because the earth is standing still, and the truth becomes a lie
A choice profound is bittersweet, no one hears Cassandra Goth cry

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#8 Old 10th Jan 2022 at 5:04 PM Last edited by Deshong : 10th Jan 2022 at 5:53 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Jathom95
Erm, yes. I know it was probably for performance reasons in 2009. And I didn't say that that TS3 is an ugly game without this. Far from it.

But I don't see any harm in doing something like this either for a completely optional mod. The way LazyDuchess goes about making them show up for longer distances could possibly be more performance friendly than just straight up making them stretch out farther. I can't really say without knowing what method they're using to do so.

If it's optional like this is presumably going to be, and someone has the hardware to utilize it - I don't see any problem with something like this at all. It's no different than turning down options in the options menu, which even EA recommended to do if your system was underpowered to play the game. If this ended up causing performance issues on someone's setup, just simply uninstall it.


When I state I think TS3 is beautiful is not referring to that I think you think TS3 is an ugly game, but rather inputting my own opinion and an explanation of why that is. It does not matter to me whether you or anyone thinks TS3 is an ugly game though I would agree to disagree.

Yes, an optional mod as all mods are, but the point I'm trying to make is that LazyDuchess may have a gaming computer who is creating mods that some people do not even have the system requirements for. I'm wondering why is there not system requirements for certain mods that use the CPU and/or GPU. Some wonder why TS3 performs so badly and just blame the game because some are not knowing that mods can cost CPU/GPU usage to use them. Which adds more of a workload on an outdated game engine and a 32-Bit application at that, where memory with TS3 can easily become a problem as the developers have said TS3 is a mostly CPU intensive game. But specially concerning the GPU, such as high-poly custom content, see how well that runs regardless of a gaming computer or not.

Why even install a mod just to turn down the settings when usually when one installs mods, it is to enhance the game whether visually or gameplay wise? I suppose I'm thinking of mods such as Minecraft real-time raytracing but then again, those mods have system requirements to let people know what you need to be able to run it as intended so there is no confusion. People should not have to guess what works or not and it would be ideal to already have the information they need before downloading something that could do harm to their computers because they don't know any better about checking GPU/CPU/Motherboard/SSD/HDD temperatures and all that.

"Your system might be set up to run your favorite games, but that doesn't mean everything will run smoothly when you start adding mods. Here's what you need to know about how mods affect performance, and the essential hardware you need for a premium modding experience." - https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...urces/mods.html

That above applies to all games and their modding communities. But I rarely see anything in TS3 modding community taking care to educate those who download their GPU-intensive cc, or CPU-intensive mods, etc. Some love to blame TS3 for all their problems instead of looking at their negligent attitude of not even understanding the basic fundamentals of using mods while keeping in mind the health and longevity of their computer to keep running smoothy and efficiently.


Quote: Originally posted by BlackjackGabbiani
That's funny because it caused two of my much later computers, made after the game came out, to dangerously overheat.


You are responsible for understanding what your computer can handle and what it can not. You are responsible for checking the temperatures, looking for cooling solutions if needed and overall taking care of the health of your computer.

I have not ever had TS3, or any game for that matter, ruin my computer. And especially now that I am more aware than I was in the past since getting more into PC gaming. I expect a game like Resident Evil Village or Cyberpunk 2077 to ruin my computer, but no, because I monitor what my computer can handle or not and adjust accordingly. The same with TS3. Some of TS3 players are unaware, and there is more that goes into PC gaming, even if all they play is TS3, than just install the game and play.


Quote: Originally posted by Jathom95
Did you happen to enable Vsync in your graphics control panel on either one? Just wondering. It's basically a requirement for TS3 since the FPS can shoot up into the 1000s and massively overwork your graphics card.


I am aware this was not addressed to me, but I have read that some get extremely high FPS. When I tested this out myself, if I remember correctly, on the gaming desktop that I built it was around 150 FPS (GTX 660) when Vsync was off. On my new gaming desktop, the FPS was around 350 FPS (RTX 2070). I have not ever had anything around or close to 1000 and I wonder if something else was going on for it to be that high. Now the higher FPS was useless because I had a 60 Hz monitor so the GPU was working harder for nothing with slightly higher temperatures. I did switch to primarily play with Vsync on along with Triple buffering though.


Quote: Originally posted by HarVee
It may have been made that way to allow people with potatoes to run it in 2009, but here we live in 2022 where even the slowest laptops on the market currently can run 256x256 shadow maps rendered at far distances from the camera.


I am confused how that has any relevance to TS3 created from 2004 through 2009. If one wants to play a game using the latest gaming technology, that's fine. But trying to force an old game to look and/or play like it was created in 2022 sounds like trouble to me. Unless, the developers themselves did it since they would know the limitations and all that. Also, they are the ones who have the game engine and could improve and advance upon it, if possible. Like a remaster, I suppose. But honestly, I would rather bring back The Sims Studio and remake TS3 from the ground up. Not going happen though and if so, would it be done right? And if so, don't forget to bring back Richard Evans because I would be so interested in how he would make the A.I. even more ambitious. But yeah, I can keep dreaming, lol.

Previous Game: Batman Arkham Asylum GOTY Edition (100% riddles completed; now I know why I've always been fascinated with The Riddler, lol.)

Next Game: Batman Arkham City GOTY Edition
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Original Poster
#9 Old 10th Jan 2022 at 7:19 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Deshong
I am confused how that has any relevance to TS3 created from 2004 through 2009. If one wants to play a game using the latest gaming technology, that's fine. But trying to force an old game to look and/or play like it was created in 2022 sounds like trouble to me. Unless, the developers themselves did it since they would know the limitations and all that. Also, they are the ones who have the game engine and could improve and advance upon it, if possible. Like a remaster, I suppose. But honestly, I would rather bring back The Sims Studio and remake TS3 from the ground up. Not going happen though and if so, would it be done right? And if so, don't forget to bring back Richard Evans because I would be so interested in how he would make the A.I. even more ambitious. But yeah, I can keep dreaming, lol.


EA isn't known for remastering old games though. They've literally only done one in recent years. With a game as profitable as The Sims, they'd just be more likely to release a new game than a "remastered" version of an old one. If they were big on making the older games better on modern hardware, then they'd still be selling TS1 and TS2 on Origin for people to buy.

Also, LazyDuchess' ASI mods like Smooth Patch aren't typical mods. They're created by reverse-engineering the game's own code, so LD oftentimes has a very good understanding of just what lies underneath the hood. Not only that, but they're all created to be customizable. With Smooth Patch, if the default value causes a performance drop, all one has to do is open the ini and tweak the value until they find one suitable to their setup. If it doesn't work well on their setup at all, then just uninstall it. It's not rocket science.

Whether people understand how these things work or not is inconsequential. In fact, I'd argue that once one decides to install mods in the first place that it's their responsibility to ensure that they work properly with their particular setup. Sure, modders are expected to make sure they work with the largest audience possible, but the burden lies on the mod user to actually read the instructions and install it properly, and then make note of any anomalies while playing. That's what you take on when installing unofficial content.

I suppose it's just difference of opinion. I love TS3 and everything about it. I love how the game was designed. But I also love mods like this that push the limits of the game and expand on things that are no longer reasonable in 2022. And yes, I understand that is subjective. I just take the route of what I do with other mods. Don't want it, don't install it.

You have been chosen. They will come soon.
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Original Poster
#10 Old 10th Jan 2022 at 7:48 PM
Update for anyone following the thread. According to LazyDuchess, a larger shadow fade distance won't cause performance drops either! Yay!

Link to post: https://lazyduchess.tumblr.com/post...3-shadows#notes

LD mentions tweaking the shadow map resolution in GraphicsRules.sgr and that that might cause performance drops, but I thiiiink that refers to if you want better looking shadows with the new shadow distance. So if you install the Shadow ASI mod itself, when it's available, and do nothing else - according to LD, it shouldn't cause any drops at all.

I'm so excited for this.

You have been chosen. They will come soon.
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Original Poster
#11 Old 12th Jan 2022 at 6:43 PM Last edited by Jathom95 : 14th Jan 2022 at 6:37 AM.
Update: The mod, called Shadow Extender, is now up for early access if you're a patron of LazyDuchess' Patreon. No guarantees, but it looks like a public release is coming soon! Can hardly wait!

https://www.patreon.com/posts/ts3-shadow-61070794

You have been chosen. They will come soon.
Mad Poster
#12 Old 14th Jan 2022 at 9:25 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Jathom95
Update: The mod, called Shadow Extender, is now up for early access if you're a patron of LazyDuchess' Patreon. No guarantees, but it looks like a public release is coming soon! Can hardly wait!

https://www.patreon.com/posts/ts3-shadow-61070794


1 week early access, I think.
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Original Poster
#13 Old 20th Jan 2022 at 6:37 PM
The mod has been publicly released! Check it out here!

https://lazyduchess.tumblr.com/post...shadow-extender

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Test Subject
#15 Old 19th Feb 2022 at 4:11 PM
Also just want to add this:

For those that play with 8k shadows (or any resolution for that matter) and you use this mod and see that your shadows look like shit, you should try doubling the value you have in your Graphicsrule settings for your corresponding in game setting.

For example, in my Graphicsrule setting (I use VeryHigh) my value before adding the mod was 7680. My shadows were very clear and crisp. After adding the mod and not changing the value my shadows were very jagged and just generally did not look well. So I went in my Graphicsrule file and doubled the value from 7680 -> 15360. Now this did not completely fix the shadows to look perfect, but they do look a lot better than before and I will actually keep the mod in now that they look better. I've also tried tripling the value but there is no difference.

Once again this is only for those that play with 8k shadows. There was no performance difference for me, but then again I have a beefy rig. So try this at your own discretion.
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