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Instructor
Original Poster
#251 Old 25th Jan 2012 at 10:26 PM
Lady Scarlet, I love your new family. I think they are going to be very, very interesting. I can't wait to read the wedding story !!

I recently finished playing my midwife ... she's not as interesting as Margaret, even though her love life was --err --- quite active. I don't know if I'll post anything about her or not just yet. I have the pics, etc, but she did just die--failed the first elder age roll, and died at 54. Ah, well. Her sister is now the new Shropshire midwife, and her only son, an illegitimate child, is seeking an apprenticeship in the village. Maybe he'll turn out to be more interesting than his mother. His father is one of the guards in the village.
Test Subject
#252 Old 1st Feb 2012 at 2:06 AM
Since Megaupload got taken down, I was wondering if someone could repost the Excel Workbook for the challenge?
Instructor
#253 Old 5th Feb 2012 at 8:10 PM
I'm back ^^ I haven't played too much since I started school again and I haven't had too much time this weekend either (biology and chemistry classes for university >.> ), but I just found that we don't have school this Monday (because of the ice and snow) and I think I'll play more Sims ^^
I had this idea yesterday for more fantasy sims in my game and I couldn't resist, so I added Melusine ^^





Instructor
#254 Old 8th Feb 2012 at 4:56 PM
Well, our snow days are over, but I managed to write more on my blog, so I'm quite happy and satisfied ^^
So, cut a long story short ...

I wrote another chapter about Marcelet and his family, because I know that M3g7e wanted to read more about him ^^ I really enjoyed playing their household this round (I can't believe year 1620 is already here O.o ), even if it broke my heart.

I posted some links where everyone can find the CC from my game ^^

I wrote a new family page now that my generation II sims start to have their own families.Some suggestions about how to organize my blog would be very helpful, because in a couple of weeks there are gonna be lots of new families with the same surnames and I'm sure everything would become confusing (even for me).

I wrote the first chapter about Maximilian de Valois (who is now a Duke, thanks to his father-in-law) and his wife, Princess Blanche de Croy.I have some plans about the young adventurer and his wife and I promise I'll write more about them the next round ^^


And that's it ... Well, it doesn't seem too much, but I played and wrote a lot those past few days ...
http://dark-ages-stories.blogspot.com/

Here are some photos ^^

Princess Blanche de Croy and her husband, Maximilian de Valois, Duke of Angoulême at their wedding.


Blanche and her daughter, Isabelle, named after the Queen.


Haiete Gaudet, now a teenager.
Test Subject
#255 Old 9th Feb 2012 at 7:47 PM
Hello! I am a newcomer to both the challenge and the thread; I don't know how long I'm going to stick with the challenge (I am generally a VERY impatient person, and this looks like a LOT of building, which was never my forte... My simmies won't be half as pretty as Lady Scarlet's anyway, that's for sure :P).

I have what is probably a very silly question, but what do you mean by a Town/Commercial Subneighbourhood? Is it like a Bluewater Village? And is it residential? It's mostly for the bourgeois, am I right? (Still pretty much a newb when it comes to OfB, in spite of owning it for like five years...)
Instructor
Original Poster
#256 Old 10th Feb 2012 at 6:34 AM
Welcome horsegirlmec

Yes--something on the order of Bluewater Village I imagine, though I never played Maxis hoods ... it would simply be a town where merchants gather. All neighborhoods should be residential, or have residential lots in them, so yes, I suppose it would be. And any class of sim can live there ... just the focus is commercial not agricultural.
Instructor
#257 Old 10th Feb 2012 at 1:20 PM
Hey horsegirlmec ! ^^ I'm so glad to see new faces aroung here ! ^^ So welcome and thank you for being so sweet ^^ Also thank you for reading my stories (or just watching the photos that I post).

So ... pieces of advice from someone who not long ago was a newcommer here ^^
The challenge may look a little complex at the beginning, but don't worry.Once you will strat playing everything comes naturally.You just have to remember to enjoy playing it ^^ I know there are many rules and sub-rules and footnotes and it may look overwhelming, but no one says that you can't adapt this challenge to your own preferences.I write stories using this challenge and still I change many things and details, because sometimes I just feel that things would be more interesting if this or that would happen.
For example, I don't think that in my game I have any commercial neighbourhoods ^^" I just squeezed everything and everyone in one neighbourhood and one sub-neighbourhood because I though that having much more would complicate things for me ^^" Nevertheless, my game is still interesting and my simmies keep me busy almost all the time with so much drama XD
P.S. My simmies are pretty, I agree, but not thanks to me ^^" Most of them just have beautiful parents that I downloaded from all around the internet, so I have to thank them for that ^^

Well, this challenge will take you some time at the beginning if you really want to make it perfect and play it à la carte, but you'll see that it worths everything ^^

I really hope to see you around here more, maybe share with us some of you sims' stories or some photos.Or at least some impressions.

M3g7e, I can't wait to read more about your stories too, so please don't keep us waiting too long ^^
Instructor
Original Poster
#258 Old 11th Feb 2012 at 6:02 PM
Lady Scarlet, I adore your blog! You have such a wonderful vision with this world you are creating. And your sims are very pretty!!! I am coming to love Joffrey and his history. He is a very intriguing character to me, full of mystery and darkness. I wonder if Alesia will come to accept her marriage, and what sort of life she will lead with the Count? They seem to be very different, but perhaps in time she will come to love him, after all. He strikes me as gentle and understanding, though her head is full of worry, poor thing.

Also, my heart grieves for poor Marcelet, and especially for Haiete. I hope that Guillaume's marriage will prove healing for the family. I feel somehow oddly responsible for his misery ... but this story is truly fascinating.

Also, I wonder if the Princess will remain happy in her marriage. It seems that she has a lot of pressure now to produce an heir. I hope all goes well for her.

On my end, I am working on the Aubergine estate. I have only just created the terrain for the duchy of Wilshire. I may change that name ... haven't decided yet. There will be a great deal of political intrigue between the Duke, Michel Aubergine, and the Baron, Richarde d'Aquamarin'e. I am not sure yet how it will affect poor Margaret who has lived, till now, a very provincial and quiet life in Shropshire.

I've been playing basic rotation--the blacksmith has a bastard child with a gentry class woman, whose husband believes the child to be his heir. So far, he suspects nothing. Until the affair is discovered, I don't plan to roll for outcomes. So, all is quiet there, for now. She miscarried her second child with her husband, and so she may come under suspicion at some point. I will update stories as soon as I can ... I may post profiles, etc on the blacksmith's family and the gentry family in the coming days.

Until then, I am busy with grading and real life -- always intervening in my simming time!!! :-|
Instructor
#259 Old 11th Feb 2012 at 6:52 PM
HI there again ^^ I'm really happy to know that you enjoy reading my stories ^^
I'm also happy that you like Joffrey, because I think I have a soft spot for him too ^^" Well, it's not that there aren't other characters that i enjoy playing with, but Joffrey ... well, I had a clear image in my mind when I created him, knowing his full history and all (as I said before, Joffrey de Peyrac isn't my creation, he's Anne Golon's character from her series of novels).
All that I can say about Alesia and her future life with her husband is that everything is gonna be very interesting and I promise there will be many chapters about them.

About Marcelet ... Yes, I know.It broke my heart too what happened to him.I can't believe I'm so unlucky when I have to roll for his family >.> Now I really don't know what will happen to them, because things are a little complicated ... We'll see next round ^^

Oh, the Princess ... and not only her.Her husband will have a major role in my stories too (even if the last chapter wasn't centered on him).Just keep checking the post about them, I promise there are gonna be lots of surprises ^^

Also, I can't wait to see more post on you blog ^^ Maybe some new stories, because still, I can't believe how many families you have to play with O.O I still struggle with my 11 families >.>

Well, I have to go back to my game ^^ The Valois family finally had another boy, but poor Francoise and Maximilian are a little old for all the craziness in their house.They now have to find suiting husbands for their 7 daughters and, of course, beautiful spouses for their two sons.I still can't believe that poor Francoise gave birth to 11 children in the past 24 years >.> I'm not sure there will be anyone in the neighbourhood that will manage to match her success XD At least in the next generation ...

I also finished creating the Crown Prince's betrothed ^^ I'm sure you won't believe who she is ^^ (I'll make a post about her as soon as I can).

I have to agree with you, M3g7e.My life too interferes with my game ... especially this year, with all the college preparations >.>
Field Researcher
#260 Old 23rd Feb 2012 at 11:51 PM
i just started this challenge a few days ago and it is really fun! but i was wondering how sims with a royal appointment are supposed to work for the king. like if they are a gardener, am i supposed to consider their garden to be the king's garden? or are they supposed to work on the kings lot? if so, how? And if i consider their garden to be the king's, then do they have to give all of their crops to him? Or a precentage?

www.thelongaliens.livejournal.com *updated 7-13-11* please leave a comment if you read it!
Instructor
#261 Old 24th Feb 2012 at 8:00 AM
Well, I think that is up to you (no one would mind if you change something or make this easier for your gameplay).
I don' t really play with that rule, but somethimes I summon some of the sims from my neighborhood and make them work for the King (for that I offer them money or other kind of payment).

But I think M3g7e can explain things to you (because I don't exactly play this challenge by rules).
Instructor
Original Poster
#262 Old 25th Feb 2012 at 9:28 PM
Hello, Amyandmia, and Welcome!

Lady Scarlet is right: there are no rules governing how to set up the King's estates. Players have the freedom to decide how these things are done. For me, I have my royal appointees all living on their own lots and working the lands there. How you decide to handle this is up to you. The guidelines in the challenge explain how to handle taxes, etc for people who have royal appointments.
Test Subject
#263 Old 28th Feb 2012 at 8:16 AM
Hello everybody! I've finally start the challenge and i think it's really really a good one. I've already 13 households and 55 sims who living in the Kingdom of Haudecourt.

M3g7e, i'm always on the translating the rules in french, but i'm in vacation actually and i take my time playing

Here is the link of my webiste where i tell the story of the kingdom. Because i'm french, i can just tell you a factual story, i have not the words to write great story, but i hope that will please you

http://haudecourtkingdom.weebly.com/index.html
Instructor
Original Poster
#264 Old 1st Mar 2012 at 2:47 AM
Louhema, Hi! I have visited your site--wow!!! Very impressive --I caught up with your story on PBK, and commented there more fully. Your neighborhood is beautiful and your stories engrossing. I just love the whole look and feel of the world you're creating. Really awesome!!

On my end, I continue to work slowly--with real life constantly intervening in my time. I will try to update as soon as I can.
Banned
#265 Old 1st Mar 2012 at 6:50 AM Last edited by NollemD : 1st Mar 2012 at 9:10 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3g7e
Additionally, you may use any other combination of hacks that give you increased control over your sim's lives, but you must record your use of them according to the Behaviors & Outcomes chart--if you violate the "Natural Order," you have cheated the system and must account for that "evil" behavior somehow.

Please post your pictures and family stories--I am quite interested in how this all turns out. Also, feel free to send a barrage of questions my way--some of the details may conflict, and I am still working this whole thing out, so don't be shy about asking. I look forward to hearing your stories


Although this challenge looks appealing, I do have a question about how it works. You say that, if a Sim violates the "Natural Order", then the Sim will have cheated the system and must account for that "evil" behavior somehow. However, what if the player is kind and benevolent and tries to guide the little Sim to pursue only the good and neutral behaviors? It doesn't seem that difficult to avoid evil behaviors altogether.

1. Marriage of Convenience - listed as an evil behavior (presumably by the parents of the groom or bride) but allows the parents to receive +5 Clerical Favor Points (so, it seems that the religion supports this evil behavior.) Anyway, this can easily be done away with by not choosing marriage of convenience.

2. Elope - listed as an evil behavior. The player can simply avoid this evil behavior by not clicking the "Get married/joined" button.

3. Use of Birth Control - listed as an evil behavior. The player can simply avoid this by not visiting the hag. I presume the hag owns a community business, selling pharmaceuticals?

4. Children taken away by social worker - listed as an evil behavior. Use common sense, and care for the children, unless the family's refrigerator/kitchen pantry is empty and the children are starving and the parents have no choice but to sell the kids to a merchant who will force the kids to work in sweatshops.

5. Abortion - listed as an evil behavior. The player can simply avoid this by not choosing abortion.

6. Becoming a supernatural creature - The player can simply avoid this by becoming ultra-paranoid and ignore supernaturals in the game and disallow the big telescope for male Sims. Female Sims, on the other hand, because they don't get alien-pregnant, can stargaze the sky all they want.

7. Adultery - The player can avoid this by not allowing the Sims to woohoo or try for baby with a member of the opposite sex or of the same sex. Sims are allowed to make friends to gain job promotions, but they are not allowed to have multiple lovers while married. For best results, use ACR and set the autonomy to 0 or go to Options panel and click on "Free will off". That way, you maximize control over your Sim's behaviors. As I recall, ACR does have an option to only woohoo with spouse, so the player is not forced to make Sims get an open marriage.

8. Fornication - Same as Adultery.

9. Tax - Well, since the player keeps track of all the financial records and transfers simoleons for taxes, I would assume that the player knows what he is doing when he taxes. Just remember that the tax rate can't be set too high or too low. Too low means the country has no money; too high means that the peasants can't feed themselves and will starve, and you will wind up with no underclass. (Actually, that can be considered a good thing, since you would be downsizing the neighborhood and won't have to play with so many families.)

10. Theft or Bribery or Embezzlement or Extortion - Do not steal and do not bribe. Do not extort either. Since theft or bribery or extortion is not in-game behavior, this can be easy to avoid.

11. Be familiar with one's betters - Do not solicit attention from one's betters. Rather, control the superior family to become interested in the poorer family. The families will meet, and the superior family may offer a noble or royal appointment to the inferior family's child, or a merchant can offer an apprenticeship position to the inferior family's child.

12. Influence superiors - Do not do this. This is classified as "evil" behavior.

13. Homicide or Suicide - Do not do this. Naturally, Sims can't kill others or themselves, so this is as easy as cake.
Instructor
Original Poster
#266 Old 1st Mar 2012 at 10:52 PM
Err ... I think I must have entirely missed your point. Of course, players can decide what to have their sims do. And, er, yea, it is possible to avoid "evil" behaviors .... what am I missing here? Seems obvious to me. What is your point??? The challenge is not to avoid the evil behaviors. So, if you don't want to do them, then don't. Perhaps you haven't read the challenge entirely .... I'm not really sure why you'd go to all the trouble to "prove" that the "evil" behaviors are avoidable. I think anyone would know that without being told.
Banned
#267 Old 1st Mar 2012 at 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3g7e
Err ... I think I must have entirely missed your point. Of course, players can decide what to have their sims do. And, er, yea, it is possible to avoid "evil" behaviors .... what am I missing here? Seems obvious to me. What is your point??? The challenge is not to avoid the evil behaviors. So, if you don't want to do them, then don't. Perhaps you haven't read the challenge entirely .... I'm not really sure why you'd go to all the trouble to "prove" that the "evil" behaviors are avoidable. I think anyone would know that without being told.


Well, since you have mentioned that "it is possible to avoid 'evil' behaviors" and "evil behaviors are avoidable" and the challenge mentions specifically that doing "evil" behaviors will bring many negative consequences, I am sure that a player can help the Sims try to avoid evil behaviors and thus the negative consequences. You also mention in this post that the challenge is not to avoid the evil behaviors, which would imply that the player could choose the "evil" behaviors and receive the negative consequences and bring misfortune to the Sims. It's that part that I don't exactly get. Most challenges like the popular Legacy Challenge or Test of Time Challenge would explicitly state points being deducted, if the participant of the challenge do not obey a rule or condition. For example, the Legacy Challenge, for fairness's sake, prohibits restarting the game unless the game is glitched and messed up, or deduct some points in the overall Legacy score. This rule will decrease the player's likelihood to cheat in the challenge, because the player does not want to lose points. Sorry if I offended you or anything. I didn't mean to sound like I was trying to prove that the evil behaviors are avoidable. I was merely commenting that the challenge seemed very strange to my experience, because I have never encountered a challenge that actually encourages people to allow Sims to do something that would bring a bad result rather than a good or positive result.

I mean, seriously, if a player helps a family work its way up the social ladder, the player is bound to protect the family's rank in society to prevent a foolish bozo from ruining the family name. If the player wants to protect the family's rank in the Simlish society, then the player must prevent foolish bozos from ruining the family name and therefore cautious playing must be assumed. That would be the only way to make it up the social ladder, I presume. By this reasoning, I would assume that the player would do everything he can to avoid the "evil" behaviors, even if those "evil" behaviors are purely "optional". Seriously, how many rational people would choose "evil" behaviors? Unless they have a good reason -- a reason that can eventually benefit them in some way. If there is no benefit at all to a behavior, then what's the point of choosing the behavior or allowing certain behavior to occur?
Mad Poster
#268 Old 2nd Mar 2012 at 12:37 AM
Quote:
Over the past few weeks, I've been turning over a question in my mind, one which has led to the writing of this little challenge. The question, simply put, is whether one can ever get ahead in life while following the rules; that is, is it ever possible to change one's lot in life without playing the system? Or must one cheat to get ahead? To get at this question, we shall begin in the Renaissance, a time of new beginnings, when the rise of the individual begins to assert itself with ever greater force against the backdrop of a new secular humanism that permits the question to be posed in the first place.


It's the whole idea behind the challenge, NollemD - if you don't have some sims who do the "evil" behaviors, and some who do the "good," it's worthless as an experimental ground for the question.

An individual doing the challenge may, of course, be doing other things than that; or may lose track of the premise in the interest of developing the story; but that's the starting point the creator had in mind.

Ugly is in the heart of the beholder.
(My simblr isSim Media Res . Widespot,Widespot RFD: The Subhood, and Land Grant University are all available here. In case you care.)
Banned
DELETED POST
2nd Mar 2012 at 1:45 AM Last edited by NollemD : 2nd Mar 2012 at 4:00 PM.
This message has been deleted by NollemD. Reason: OK. I understand the point of this challenge, which is to go against human nature. Now, I am just removing this useless post.
Banned
DELETED POST
3rd Mar 2012 at 6:28 PM Last edited by NollemD : 4th Mar 2012 at 7:12 PM.
Default Warwickshire Renaissance Challenge: a planning
This message has been deleted by NollemD. Reason: Eh... change my mind. I will create a website instead to host my pictures.
Banned
DELETED POST
5th Mar 2012 at 5:56 AM
This message has been deleted by NollemD. Reason: Oops. *computer problem* Sorry for the double posting.
Banned
#269 Old 5th Mar 2012 at 6:03 AM
At the OP, I am wondering about how the Outcast-Outlaw system works. As an outcast/outlaw, an individual Sim can own 10 tiles of furniture. If this Sim marries another outlaw and starts a family with that outlaw and begets 6 children with that outlaw, then can the new family own up to 80 tiles of furniture, plus 30 tiles of furniture simply for being a family?

Can the tiles overlap? For example, the player wants to decorate a lot by putting a piece of flowerbed and another flowerbed right over it, so it looks lush and pretty. This counts as 1 tile of furniture, correct? Or is it two tiles?

What about OMSP's? Do they take up the tile limit?

What about selling paintings or writing novels? Can the Outcasts and Outlaws sell paintings and write novels without rolling at all?
Instructor
Original Poster
#270 Old 6th Mar 2012 at 2:23 AM
Rule 3--30 tiles for a whole family means that the limit for a family is 30 tiles--not 30 plus the individual allotment. Just 30.
So an outcast family with six children gets 30 tiles.

Flowers and other flora are not furniture. Portable chattel, i.e. beds, objects, etc are what is referred to here.

The lot may have as much flora as you wish.

Rule 10 states that individual items may be sold, but you will have to roll to determine discovery. Obviously, an outcast cannot sell paintings or novels without fear of discovery. Use the chart on p. 21 to determine discovery. The premise is that the novel, painting, etc has to be sold within the kingdom--and the law is looking for the outlaw.
Banned
#271 Old 6th Mar 2012 at 2:42 AM Last edited by NollemD : 6th Mar 2012 at 6:59 AM.
Can you put objects on top of objects and count that as one tile or two tiles? For example, a piece of flower on top of a table. Do OMSP's and the magisplay tray count as objects, even though they are supposed to be made invisible?

How about putting some objects in the inventory and keeping only 30 objects on the lot for the given family? Can an outlaw marry a townie or NPC? What if the townie brings in a big screen TV, a AlienWare computer, an expensive bookcase, and three books? Does the townie/NPC count as an outlaw as well? Can you sell the objects to generate an income so the Sims won't starve so soon?

Do you (when I use the term, "you", I mean you, Heloise) allow the Sims to pay the bills? Where does the money go? I am just wondering, because Sims tend to pay the bills, or the Repo Man will come and repossess some of the furniture, which wouldn't be very good. Do you manage to leave enough cash just for bill-paying?

I am wondering about the entering the clergy part. If a male Sim leaves the clergy, then what happens? Become a professor at university? SimWardrobe has a mod that allows one to start a vocational school. When you say "Clergy", do you really mean "Cathedral" or "Monastery" or "Convent"? The table for males' path of life and the table for females' path of life are not very parallel, so it's hard to tell. But I think you mean Cathedral... or Monastery? It is mentioned that "rakish, dissolute" Sims tend to join the Monastery, so I think "Clergy" really means the Monastery, not the Cathedral. In that case, members of the Cathedral are appointed by the Monarch, is it not?

I also have some questions about the clergy:

1. Can women join the clergy and become a bishop? (It is mentioned that the challenge is "loosely based" on the Anglican model, so that means some deviation is likely to occur. If that is the case, then the clergy may be the only egalitarian place for men and women.)
2. Shouldn't the top of the clergy be a god or goddess (that is, you), not the Archbishop? Are you going to put your Sim Self in it?
3. Can the clergy members get married and have kids? (I mean, it sounds nice to be an Archbishop and all, but not having someone to inherit your awesome wealth that you accumulate as a clergyman stinks.)
4. What about evangelizing? The Sims 2 game is not built for religion, so there is no indicator that marks a Sim as religious or not. So, how do you know if a Sim is religious or not or has converted to a faith or not?
5. Do Sims start with a faith since birth, or do their faith grow/decline over time?
6. Can faith change, and if so, how does it change?
7. How does a Sim lose faith in you (the god of everyone and everything)?
8. Although I have assumed that the religion in the challenge is a monotheistic religion, I just want to make sure: is it? Or are there multiple gods?
9. What about pagans, atheists, and agnostics? Maybe the player does not want to make a particular Sim to attend church on a given day, because the player has declared somewhere in the story that the Sim is atheist or agnostic and thus does not attend church. Then, the player writes in the story that the clergyman attempts to convert or evangelize the atheist or agnostic Sim to believing that there is a god, and that god is YOU, Heloise. Now, if you, Heloise, happen to have an atheist Sim in the game, then is that atheist allowed to be free from all influence from the Church and avoid losing Clerical Favor, because the atheist believes in no god?
Instructor
Original Poster
#272 Old 6th Mar 2012 at 6:58 AM
Really, most of what you're asking here is left up to the discretion of individual players. I don't particularly find it useful to answer a litany of highly detailed questions, especially about religion. As I've tried to make clear, the game is a playstyle: read the forward to the challenge where I lay out the premises for the game. It makes me very little difference how you handle these aspects of your game. If you want to share your stories, I'd be glad to hear them. Otherwise, these look like questions for you to sort out on your own. Sorry I can't be of more help to you.
Banned
#273 Old 6th Mar 2012 at 7:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3g7e
Really, most of what you're asking here is left up to the discretion of individual players. I don't particularly find it useful to answer a litany of highly detailed questions, especially about religion. As I've tried to make clear, the game is a playstyle: read the forward to the challenge where I lay out the premises for the game. It makes me very little difference how you handle these aspects of your game. If you want to share your stories, I'd be glad to hear them. Otherwise, these look like questions for you to sort out on your own. Sorry I can't be of more help to you.


That's OK. I understand.

Though, the game challenge doesn't really feel like a play-style. If it were a play-style, then it should have one simple rule: do whatever you want.
Banned
#274 Old 6th Mar 2012 at 3:29 PM Last edited by NollemD : 6th Mar 2012 at 4:17 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3g7e
As I've tried to make clear, the game is a playstyle: read the forward to the challenge where I lay out the premises for the game. It makes me very little difference how you handle these aspects of your game.


Actually, I have read the forward in addition to the subsequent pages of the challenge from the first page to the last page this past month, and I do find the forward a bit problematic. In summary, the forward explains how you have got interested or inspired about writing the challenge, why you write the challenge, and what you hope that the Simmers would keep in mind throughout the challenge, which is to "encourage interested players to approach Warwickshire as the spirit of the question, one which lives through the persistent and urgent necessity of those who labor to cope with a system that is at once made to seem 'natural' and which is rigid, hierarchical, abstract, often oppressive, and even, at times, unjust." In addition, you claim that, "Though I have tirelessly researched the components of the challenge, it is not a perfect historical replica of life in the early Renaissance, nor is it meant to be. The system constructed is meant to outline a Renaissance cosmology and, as such, aims to be faithful to a way of thinking, not to historical particularity." Basically, it's trying to say that the challenge is meant to be faithful to a way of thinking. However, I think there is a logical fallacy in that response right there, because you are not putting historical events into context. In the modern-day era, yes, it would be considered rigid, hierarchical, abstract, often oppressive, and unjust; however, I think it would be more helpful to put the phenomenon within context (that is, in the pre-modern era). Kings in the past ruled by divine right, and it is divine right that granted them the right to rule. Serfs and peasants abide by divine right as well, and according to context, this hierarchy is NOT unjust, because it works based on cooperation, loyalty, and security. You can't rip out a way of thinking without context of the way people lived back then! Therefore, this challenge must be set during pre-modern times and should be treated like a historical fiction or medieval fantasy neighborhood. Finally, the forward says that "Further, you will find no hard, fast rules here—nothing that must be done, no absolute requirements, and very few definites of any kind. What you will see in Warwickshire is the outline of a social order for your sims to live within—but keep in mind, everything is to be negotiated, troubled, navigated, suffered, and ultimately called to account." This is most problematic, because it will be considered contradictory in the following examples and the manner by which you write.

Case #1: On page 14, you say that Open For Business is absolutely required and Seasons is "very highly recommended". However, the actual writing of the challenge assumes that the player has all the expansion packs and, in addition, play with the "recommended" and "very useful" mods as well. It states, "If you wish to play a completely unmodded game, you may find Warwickshire is not the challenge for you." This is a claim that can easily be refuted, because a player can easily create an unmodified game with the original game mechanics, as intended by EA/Maxis, ignore all the tables and die rolls, and only control the Sims based on a whim and free will. Since you have mentioned in the forward you want the challenge to be faithful to a way of thinking and not of historical peculiarity, you imply that custom content, hacks, and other expansion packs are NOT required. If they are not required, then that means a player with only the base game and no custom content or hacks can still opt to play the game. It would only look funny, because the way of thinking is pre-modern and the Sims are all dressed in modern clothes. To compensate the would-be anachronism, I think the player has to devise a way to incorporate the way of thinking and way of dress into one coherent story. Otherwise, it would not make any sense, unless the Sims have a particular culture assigned by the player.

Case #2: If the player wants to include the suggestion on Money Cheats on page 64, then the player is going to be stuck right there, because the section is self-contradictory. It says explicitly that, "A Thief’s success at stealing is moderated by several factors: the class station of their victim, the amount stolen, and their body and logic skill points." However, in reality, the amount stolen would not affect at all on the result, shown by the simplification of the equations. The amount stolen can simply be cancelled out, as A/A = 1. Because the equations do not work as intended, the player can devise a new equation for his or her personal use that actually works (including all the intended factors) or leave the Money Cheats part on one's own whim and free will, as long as the whim and free will make the Sim suffer in some way.

Case #3: In addition to Case #2, the equation on page 66 does not set boundaries for the variables, implying that any number from negative infinity to positive infinity can be used in the equation, hypothetically. Now, if you place a very large number in the equation, then all the constants would be considered negligible, because this very large number is so large. Therefore, set boundaries MUST be set. It is highly recommended that an explanation on why the specific equation is used to describe a phenomenon within the challenge be included; otherwise, the equation in question would be rendered completely useless. Seriously, if a particular method does not work as intended, then a new method must be devised to replace the old method to work, along with justification of why it works and is superior to other methods. Now, you may say that that's the player's choice, and indeed it would be considered the player's choice. However, the player's choice to create a better equation that actually works as intended would be more useful and productive than the player's insistence on using an equation that does not work as intended. One possible way to overcome this part is to skip over this section. Although bribing and stealing interactions would be considered interesting to include in the challenge, they are not practical based on the way the actual game is set up (unless you suggest how to do them), and the equations make bribery and theft even more impractical, because amount is not taken into account, as intended (unless you drop amount altogether).

Case #4: As Peni Griffin points out, the purpose of evil Sims is to defy the system to address to the question in hand. However, there is a problem with defying the system that works within its context (that is, set in pre-modern times when the way of thinking was different from today's), because people believed in divine right and the fact that the people wanted security from the lord and the lord wanted loyalty and cooperation from the people. This hierarchy, in this respect, works and is natural. That's how hierarchies work. If one wants everyone to be "equal", then try communism. As an ideology, that's the extreme form of equality, and it has made countries poor, backwards, and unproductive. Therefore, for storytelling purposes, there really is no point or real reason why one should defy the system, when the system works under the condition that the principle of "divine right" is assumed, and the fact that some people are more fit to govern than others given certain conditions. One example of condition would be, I presume, the process of natural selection. Some species in certain environments have the "right" to "govern" the niche, because they are more equipped to fit within the niche. Please note that the process of natural selection is natural, not immoral or moral. One cannot place a moral ground on nature, because what is perfectly "natural" may be perceived to be "immoral". In Social Darwinism context, an employee who is more fit or suitable at doing a particular job is more likely to be selected and promoted upwards than an employee who is less fit or suitable at doing a particular job. The challenge also uses "good" and "evil" behaviors based on behaviors perceived as "good" and "evil" in the real world. This part may conflict with the player's own sense of morality, making the entire game more serious and not very humorous and lighthearted at all, especially for a player who wants to insert some random humor here and there. If the player wants to insert humor, then the humor would most likely be known as "dark humor" or making fun of gloomy things. To overcome this, the player may think of a way to invent a new set of "good" and "evil" behaviors -- a set that is not relevant to real life. In my own game, the "evil" behavior is kicking over the trash can, and it is described so humorously that the "evil" behavior is not evil at all, in terms of the morality that is present in people's everyday lives.

Why am I posting this? I am posting this, because I feel that overall, the main point of the challenge has not been fulfilled, and the overall challenge has self-contradictory points, which is why the challenge is not for me. As for my historical neighborhood that I currently have in my game, it would not be considered "Warwickshire" under your eyes, because it does not fulfill the principle requirement, which is to embrace the old way of thinking (or defy it) in whatever social context one can think of but would be considered inappropriate to the time and place of the way of thinking. Rather, I actually play it very similar to what other people play Pleasantview, Strangetown, or Veronaville or a simple legacy challenge.
Banned
#275 Old 6th Mar 2012 at 4:56 PM Last edited by NollemD : 6th Mar 2012 at 5:07 PM.
Default To All Members Reading This Thread:
Before you start this challenge, you may want to acknowledge historical accuracy. Yes, it's true that the challenge is not intended for historical accuracy; however, historical accuracy becomes necessary to maintain political correctness. For example, the challenge uses the word "Indulgence". Be careful when you use the word "indulgence" in your story or go into detail about it, because it has real meaning to potentially offend Roman Catholic readers who are practicing their faiths. Please try to make an effort to distinguish Roman Catholic interpretation of indulgences and the challenge's interpretation of the indulgences. I highly recommend that you use a different word other than "indulgence". At best, if you really want to use the word "indulgence", then I suggest that you remain brief about it in the story if you really don't know how indulgences are supposed to work and how they were abused in the past (i.e. the buying and selling of indulgences). The last thing you want to do is confuse the reader, and if the reader is Roman Catholic, insult the reader's religion by saying or implying that "paying Adultery indulgences" was legal and appropriate. Yes, it's true that even the Roman Catholic Church's priest (Johann Tetzel) sold indulgences, though I think one must recognize that even clergymen can make mistakes and break Roman Catholic teachings.
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