Hi everyone,
I'm starting my Sims 2 game again on my gaming laptop (don't worry AndrewGloria, I am keeping my old game on my old laptop too ), but I'm a bit confused, I hope you don't mind if I ask for some advice please.

I have installed Tarlia's clean neighbourhood templates for the Pleasantview, Strangetown and Veronaville main neighbourhoods (I only have base game, NL and Pets at the moment, so they are all I have).

Do I need to do anything about the Downtowns and Stealth Hoods which will be generated by the game? Are there clean versions of those which I need to install too? Or are the Maxis versions safe?

I'm going to transfer over my Downloads folder next (now it is a bit more organised), but I have been wondering about default replacements.

I am intending to default replace most of the following:
*Clothes
*Hair
*Eyebrows
*Face templates (maybe just the 'broken' Maxis ones)
*Eyes

Are there any of these that I should make sure are finished before playing the game? I am just wondering about face templates and eyes, should my chosen defaults be in place before I start playing?

I had a feeling it can mess things up if you take these out at a later point, something to do with genetics?

Thanks to anyone who can advise me, it's a long time since I've played properly and I've forgotten nearly everything!

New default face templates will not change existing sims or their offspring, only new ones. So it doesn't matter when you put them in, as long as its before you go to make new sims.

The stealth and subhoods are reasonably clean. Just make sure the game is fully patched. If you don't want bin sims, Pleasantview townies, strays, etc. you can rename the stealth hoods or replace them with empty templates, which ever seems more intuitive to you. Jawusa's empty templates, available at MTS, are the current state of the art, I believe, but I always rename the hoods so don't keep up with that.

If you are playing with no townies and you want them to generate you would want default face templates in before they do this. NPC's too.

Default replacement clothes, eyes, eyebrows and hair replacements are not "genetic" - if you take them out (make sure you remove them from your Downloads folder, in case any for some reason has a custom star, which in some cases can happen), they'll default back to the EAxis version of the item.

There could be some "exceptions" for clothes, skins, eyes and hairs if you get items that are made to blend with EAxis items (decustomized and/or geneticized and/or towniefied) - they can look and behave very much like default replacements ingame, so it's easy to get them mixed up, but these are not defaults and should not be treated as such either. In most cases, removed items with a mesh behave like regular CC and default to a base CC item. Removed skins default to Skin2, eyes get removed and replaced with the eyes on the sim's skintone.

It could be a good idea to put in your CC (if you're sure your game can handle it, mind) before starting up the neighborhood, because then you get fewer issues with thumbnails that need repairing or things like that. Face templates are the only ones you need for brand new townies to generate properly, though.

As for Downtown, it depends on what you mean by 'clean;' clean as in 'fixed' or clean as in 'empty.' In both cases, I believe Tarlia made a clean version of that too.

Empty Downtown (No Downtownies or Tricous)
Fixed Downtown (Has Downtownies and Tricous)

I'm sure the Maxis versions are fine, I've had no issues with it, but some players just like to be on the safe side.

As for fixed Stealth Hoods, they also exist, but I believe you have to place them in before you load the hood for the first time. I'm also not sure if they remove the townies associated with them. These are also made by Tarlia, but since you just have the Pets Stealth Hood:

Pets Stealth Hood

Tarlia fixed broken face templates on downtownies so I prefer that one.
About face templates, you can download several sets of default replacements and if you are already bored from existing ones you can replace them with something different or just replace some of them. It creates a lot more variety in looks of townies and NPCs or even your CAS sims.

Thanks everyone, sorry for all the questions.

I will sort out some default replacement face templates before loading up the game for the first time on the gaming laptop (I can test them on my old laptop to make sure I like them first). I've never had any before, so there aren't any lurking in my downloads.

My default replacements are either from the Default Database, or made myself. I don't think I have anything decustomized.

I'm not actually sure whether I have things that are townified or geneticised - that might be harder to check - are these safe to remove (if removed from the Downloads folder rather than in game)?

The main reason I organised my downloads folder recently was so that I can remove things directly from there, instead of in game. I can find what I want to remove much more easily now - it's the deciding what to keep that is a bit more difficult!

I was worried about eyes, as I thought I'd heard they can cause problems if removed later on, where you get 'painted on' eyes that came with the skin - is that easily fixed, or can it cause issues?

I haven't completely finished culling my downloads, so I might want to remove some custom eyes later - especially if I find some nice default replacement eyes, as the same colours in the custom version would then be duplicates.

I was thinking of putting some of my downloads in before starting the game, such as hacks/mods.

I would like to keep townies to a minimum, I have Tarlia's Pleasantview with playables only, and I have notownieregen from MATY.

As for Downtowns and Stealth Hoods, I meant 'clean' as in safe, to avoid corruption, bugs etc. I'll check out the links, thanks

I'm still confused about how Downtowns and Stealth Hoods work.

Are Stealth Hoods just bin familes that are added to your SimBin, such as the pets and Tara Kat from Pets? I assume this is so that they can come with memories etc.?

When I used to play before, I think I could 'go Downtown' from Pleasantview, Strangetown and/or Veronaville - was this the same Downtown, or does each neighbourhood have it's own separate Downtown (such as one for Pleasantview, a different one for Strangetown etc.)?

Are the Downtowns and Stealth Hoods already somewhere in the Neghbourhoods folder, or will they only be generated when I start the game for the first time?

They will be generated for each neighbourhood separately and when you first start a neighbourhood. Downtown will be generated if you decide to add it to neighbourhood. You need to make sure you have replaced/renamed all needed templates in your program files before starting any new hood. Each template is in program files in according EP i.e. downtown template what you need replace is in C:\Program Files (x86)\EA GAMES\The Sims 2 Nightlife\TSData\Res\NeighborhoodTemplate

And there is tutorial from Tarlia: https://meetme2theriver.livejournal.com/123004.html

Regular default replacements can be replaced whenever you want. As long as they're made to replace an item ingame, they're changeable. With the exception of face templates which work slightly different, you're simply telling the game to use a different mesh and/or texture for the time being, but the game is still using the same item ID as the original items.

CC that's decustomized/geneticized/townified will act as if it's blended with EAxis items, but they will behave like regular CC if removed, so these plus any regular custom CC you can get some problems with if you remove them. Custom items have new item IDs, so the game can't go back to the original items the same way it can with default replacements.
Eyes and skin are most problematic (needs to be fixed in SimPE if you want the sims to have kids). The face is part of a sim once made and usually isn't a problem. Hair, makeup, clothes and all the rest can be changed in CAS/ingame, but if you extract sims with SimPE/Bodyshop, there can be some issues with missing hairs not being replacable with another hair (this is fixable ingame).

It's always safer to remove CC from your Downloads folder than from ingame. CAS items can be a bit iffy to remove since they can leave behind a bit of a mess.

Think of each main neighborhood as a separate world. When premade Downtowns and subhoods (including stealth hoods) are added to a hood, a new copy of the template in your program files is made, and the template remains in your program files ready to be copied again. Once added to a main hood, these copies are part of that hood's world. Developments in them will not affect other copies attached to other hoods. The family bin is also part of the world-hood. Stealth hoods are special subhoods that add sims, but no new geography, to your neighborhood - this is why they wind up in the family bin. You can have the Ottomas family in any number of hoods and play them differently any time; or, if you replace or rename their stealth hood, not have any at all.

Tara Kat and the Kim family are special cases as they exist in the lot bin, which is outside of all neighborhoods. Maxis appears to have made them in sufficiently empty, clean environments that (unlike sims moved to the lot bin in their houses from an existing hood) their data behaves as if it came from a stealth hood instead of the lot bin. Once all copies of Tara and the Kim family are added to neighborhoods (sometimes the game generate extra copies of lots in the bin, including inhabited ones) they will no longer be available to add to any neighborhoods in that game set up.

Thanks for the replies everyone, they're really helpful. I think I'm going to stick with Tarlia's hoods.

I have installed the main neighbourhoods (PV, ST and Veronaville) as per Tarlia's instructions, in Documents\EA Games\The Sims 2\Neighborhoods.

I have installed the Pets Stealth Hood as per Tarlia's instructions, in C:\Program Files (x86)\EA GAMES\The Sims 2 Pets\TSData\Res\NeighborhoodTemplate.

I hope that's right (I want the main hoods as main hoods, not subhoods or anything).

Now I'm debating which version of the Downtowns to install - I googled it and it comes with what sounds like a lot of townies to me, so I'm tempted by the 'empty version'. However, I do want the Grand Vampires, Mr Big and The Diva - I assume I can only get them with the 'fixed version with downtownies', does anyone know if that's the case please?

Annaminna - Thanks, I haven't loaded up the game yet, on my gaming laptop, I'm trying to be really cautious and not mess up.

Luckily for me, I have my old sims game on my old laptop, so I can test things there if needed.

simmer22 - Thanks for the thorough explanation, that makes sense - I'd never considered that removing custom items could cause a problem (or I've forgotten, since playing years ago).

This is probably a stupid question, but am I right in thinking it only causes a problem if you remove a custom item you have used to make a sim (or remove objects you have used in a house)? So an item which you downloaded and put in your Downloads folder, but have not yet used, can be taken out of the Downloads folder without causing any problems?

Perhaps to be on the safe side, I should leave CAS items until last, and then add them if wanted, rather than removing them if not wanted. I'll make sure my hacks are in before starting the game though.

PeniGriffin - Thanks for the detailed explanation, I think I'm beginning to understand this now (I seem to understand long, detailed explanations much better than short, simple ones, the more into detail I go, the better I learn - it drives my colleagues nuts, as they are the other way around!).

'Separate worlds' makes sense, as if moving sims between neighbourhoods causes corruption, I can see how you couldn't really use the same Downtown for all the hoods, as memories etc, would start to overlap.

I vaguely remember playing with Tara Kat the first time around, years ago, I remember now that she came with the house, I think there were 3 cats too, and it was already furnished.

If you install an empty downtown, and don't install NoTownieRegen, the game will start generating downtownies from the downtownie templates (which are, I believe, hidden somewhere and haven't been found yet; I could be wrong) as and when the game decides you need them, so you will get Mr. Bigg and the Diva and so on eventually, but it's possible you will have to recognize them by outfit and behavior rather than by their faces. If you don't want the nameless downtownies, what you might do is get bodyshop clones of the ones you want, make them in CAS, and learn how to turn them into the appropriate NPCs.

Most clothes are fine to remove, and unless you're planning to extract sims you can remove hairs as long as you make sure to fix sims using them (Bodyshop can be a bit of a pain with removed hairs, but it can be sorted out). Removing accessories and hairs can leave some borkiness behind, but this can usually be fixed by taking the sim to a mirror and just clicking OK, or replacing them. Beards, eyebrows and makeup will often disappear, sometimes it will be replaced, but these too don't seem to cause any harm when removed. Unused CAS items are fine to remove.

The main trouble is genetics - custom eyes and skin, and (to some degree) hairs that are still in use.

Furniture - Most regular furniture will revert to the original cloned object. If a fruitbowl was cloned, you'll see a fruitbowl instead of the removed object. Modded furniture can react a bit different.

Build items - I'm not too sure about these, as I don't have a lot, and I haven't tested much how they react to being removed. I'm guessing either they'll revert like regular furniture or disappear, depending on type.

As long as you haven't used a furniture or build item, they can usually be removed without any problems.

Mods - depends on type, but be careful which ones you remove. If they contain multi-PTs or multi-plantsims you should keep certain files if you decide to switch them out (make sure to read up on them). If the items contain NPCs (ridable animals/bikes and such - not sure if it extends to custom robots, custom birds, very unsure of small caged animals, possibly some I haven't mentioned) they may be considered sims by the game, and removing the NPC part could cause neighborhood corruption. so these should stay put once you've started up your game with them in your Downloads folder.

Even with empty Downtown and notownieregen game will generate Grand Vampire, Mr,Big, Diva and slobs because they are not (down)townies but service NPCs.
You will recognize them by clothing and behaviour only.

Thanks everyone.

simmer22 - Thanks, I don't have multi PTs or plantsims. I do have a few custom animals and objects which create NPCs, luckily I know which ones they are as I had to investigate and find them using SimPE, years ago, so they are all labelled and in a separate folder. I will be keeping them anyway.

I think some birds create NPCs, my 'pet dragon' does (it is made from a bird and sits in the birdcage). I'm not sure about small animals, but I don't think they do, I have some lizards etc. made from the womrat, and those ones don't.

It's mostly CAS items I want to cull a bit, but I might do that before putting those downloads into my new game.

Peni Griffin and Annaminna - I had a bit of an experiment this evening. I put Tarlia's templates into my old game on my old laptop (I made a backup first), and played around a bit.

I just used the Pleasantview without townies (it does come with Bella Goth as a townie, which is nice), and the empty Downtown. I kept notownieregen in, because I didn't really want all the normal townies if I could help it.

I played the Goths and Calientes, and made them go downtown for several hours (the whole night each time). I saved afterwards, I was hoping that would be long enough playing to generate the vampires and Diva/Mr Big.

I used 'testing cheats enabled' went into Darren Dreamer's house and used the NPC and Townie Maker, and the mailbox, to see if I could summon or create the following:
The Diva = This did not work. I had no option to create her, I went through each menu a few times to check. I had the option to summon her, but I just got an error message saying she hadn't been generated.
Mr Big, The Slob (female) & The Slob (male) = These did not work either, I had the same issue as with the Diva
Grand Vampire = This half worked. I was able to generate a Grand Vampire, but only a male one. I selected 'Keep' and he went off to live in Downtown

I didn't save after that, as it was just a test.

I think I might use Tarlia's Downtown with downtownies instead, as I want the Diva, Mr Big and Grand Vampires, more than I want to get rid of normal townies. I really enjoy playing with vampires, and it makes Downtown seem more exciting, especially if you do meet the Diva or Mr Big. The Slobs are kind of fun too, but I did get default replacements so their pyjamas are at least clean

There are a few families that I would like to keep as separate as possible from Maxis sims. That probably sounds a bit mean, but when I used to play before, I wanted all these sims to be best friends with each other, but then I would play with them and find out they had become great friends with a random waiter or townie instead, without me realising.

What is the best way to do this, if it's even possible please? Would you advise using a custom empty neigbourhood (although I assume I would still have the sneaky friends issue with NPCs such as bartenders, nannies, and probably school/work friends), or are there mods/hacks which would be better?

There are some mods to not get relationships with service NPCs i.e. https://modthesims.info/d/415431/no...th-servers.html I think there are some more newer mods too. You just need to search. About townies if you don't want them be a friends you can probably delete their relationship with SimPE.

Thanks, I'll check out the mods.

I might have a look at some empty custom hoods too.

I might look into finding out how to detownify eyes, skin and hair, just to make sure none are generated on townies that I don't know about, so I don't accidentally remove something which I think is unused, when a townie is using it.

Thanks for all the advice

^ Hair kind of gets automatically townified when you bin it to right color bins but the good news is that if you only use hair from the black/brown/blond/red bins then even if you delete some hairs the sims using those will just get another hair in same color bin and nothing bad happens. Problematic is the custom color bin since those act like their own genes so if you for example have a blue hair there and create a new sim using it and the sim then has child in the same gender as the blue-haired sim is it will inherit the exact same blue hair as your sim since there aren't other hairs with the same "gene". Using hairs from the custom bin is safe as "hair dye" after you've created the sim and put them in the game but don't touch the custom bin hairs in CAS when you're first creating your sim to avoid funky hair genetics.

You can townie-disable hairs. See the Flags category in Hat's tutorial:
https://hat-plays-sims.dreamwidth.org/34791.html
There's quite a lot of useful stuff in there.

(In all the "PropertySet"s)


It's not quite the same way for eyes and skin (those just have to be set as if they are custom - figure out how to townify them, but "reverse-engineer" the method. Or make recolors - that should automatically make custom versions, but could cause the textures to degrade slightly)

foxmanic - Thanks, I didn't realise that about the custom hair, that's helpful, it's useful to know.

simmer22 - Thanks for the tips, I'll give that a try! You've been very helpful, thanks.

I'm also restarting. What I've got in place now:

Empty stealth hood templates

No regen mods for everything that I don't want auto generated

Visitor Controller so I can ban annoying NPCs

Name generator mod (for townie/NPC names)

I just put up a WCIF thread for hood terrains too so you might want to see if anyone responds to that

Hi, thanks, that's helpful, I hadn't thought of the Visitor Controller but it's a good idea, thanks

I'll check out your thread, thanks.