^ If they add those into the basegame, they don't have any ideas for the first five or so EPs - that's why.

Yea...I agree that it doesn't seem interesting to me either. Subscription based? Smart phone only play? Competitive? I'll keep an eye out just to see what actually happens but...I might not give it a shot after all.

Going to have to disagree with you on this because I can understand that there are always issues with development in these games and some features are always buggy so they are removed and brought in in later expansions. All three games, TS2, TS3, and TS4 did not have Seasons nor Pets in their base games and I would not expect them to. These features often require several mechanics and features (particularly Seasons) which require a lot of time and dedication and I can understand if their focus was elsewhere in the base game that these are not integrated. For example, TS2 was supposed to contain rain as featured by the Beta footage yet the rain was broken and would also appear indoors which was an issue they could not resolve in time for release. This feature was shelved and later reintroduced with Seasons alongside several other weather-related features (and more!).

In terms of base games, the TS2 base game already introduced so many features that were not in the original Sims which is why so many of us still enjoy the game to this day. It was a huge jump in progress from the first game and introduced many core features and content which are now considered staples in game. The TS3 base game tries to build on what TS2 created and pushed the boundaries to introduce the open world neighbourhood, this did come at a drastic cost due to computer processing capabilities. They also had cars available since the base game which was a total shock for me as TS2 required an expansion pack to introduce those.

The TS4 base game was the first regression in terms of development which is clear as there was mismanagement in the game's development (already linked this article but might as well again). The game lacked several of the core concepts introduced in a base game that players have grown accustomed to and even many of the enhanced features introduced in TS3 (total customization aka the colour wheel). There were simply some things that Maxis should have incorporated since the beginning and would not have suffered the consequences from the community for the delay to include them (i.e. skin colour selection). I refused to purchase the game after the initial Toddlers & Pools scandal and still have not purchased the game. It is clear from watching streamers and reading online that the only interesting life stage in the game is adulthood and everything else is objectified. Likewise, the game regressed back to the stage of the first Sims game with its two-dimensional neighbourhood screens.

It would be nice for Seasons to be introduced in a TS5 base game as it does feel like a core feature but I would not expect it for the Base Game. I do not even expect any animals for a TS5 base game as I would like to provide Maxis with the benefit of the doubt and have the opportunity to include more pets-related content which would be lacklustre if included in a Base Game. Also, there has been a Pets expansion for every Sims game, so I'd consider this a required expansion.

Apologies for the long post but in sum, I'm perfectly fine with the repetitive expansion packs because this content is thoroughly developed when included in a later pack (with the exception of TS4 Cats & Dogs - another regression). What should not be included in a later pack or update is anything regarding aging, colour selection, and neighbourhood customization.

^ For TS2 they may have had some issues (coming from TS1) with getting all the new stuff into the game and had to leave some of it to EPs, but at least they made "full" EPs that at the time didn't make us feel robbed of functions. TS3 may have had some issues due to the full rebuild of the game. TS4 had issues from the get-go, but that's no excuse when you're on the 4th game and people are really starting to expect stuff from you.

But I won't excuse them in TS5 for not putting "basegame" features in the basegame. Toddlers should be there, teens should be there. Proper babies should be there (I'm expecting clothes and toys and out-of-crib functions. I'm not even considering getting the basegame if the babies are objectified again). Even weather and basic seasons should be there by now. Pools, stairs, build functions, maybe even basic pets (but that's not a must for me - as long as they don't do that EP/SP thing again - here TS3 actually did a good job with the pets EP, introducing more animals and interactions. Gotta love the horses...). Anyway - things you expect by now to be available in the basegame should be in the basegame.

And then they can build onto this with new functions in EPs and SPs (or whatever they decide to call the packs). You can do a lot with for instance a seasons-based pack even if the basic weather functions are already in the basegame - Holidays, vacations, skiing, beach/swimming, harvesting new crops, and so much more, because the weather functions are already in the game so those don't need to be worked on as much.

Honestly, I'd be much happier if EA just made Sims 2 HD collection. Add body sliders and ability to choose any shoes with outfit or top & bottom combo, update the clothing, furniture and hair styles to not look so outdated, make the game completely delete references to deleted Sims so the whole game doesn't blow up due deleted characters and protect the game from corrupting itself and voilà, everything needed for the perfect Sims game is there. Some might argue that it needs color wheel and open neighborhood but personally I'd leave them out since they mostly just added lag and boring waiting time for Sim to head from spot a to b, I honestly prefer the loading screen and immediately arriving to the other lot without having to stare my sim drive there for three hours and waste the time s/he could use on the other lot.

^ Same here. I'd love an updated TS2, because I prefer the look/structure of the sims (there are maybe a few minor things I'd change, like giving them a nicer inside of the mouth and less breakable wrists). A more cohesive CAS with some added features, maybe (I want working hats and shoes, and I'd love proper separates for toddlers, and a fix so babies can get clothes without a mod - is that so hard?). A better-looking background to the neighborhood and lots from lot view (I don't mind the playstyle of TS2 - I don't need it to be open, and actually prefer it not to be because the travel time is almost more annoying than loading screens, but the look of the neighbor houses and surroundings bug me). I also hate how neighborhoods were handled in TS4 and never quite got the hang of multi-family hoods in TS3 (also didn't like much how those were handled). I don't need the color wheel either. It has uses, but seems to make a mess out of genetics, and at times I actually prefer to recolor "the old-fashion way". I do admit some of the build tools from TS4 could come in handy, like the wall and foundation tools (at least they got something right... I'd probably build a lot more if I didn't have to shift all the walls around so much)

I guess what I really want is an updated TS2 with the odd function from the other games (but not all the "flashy" ones).

Agreed with both of you about a reissued TS2. It's honestly been a thought of mine with this whole "re-release UC" petition stuff going on now. I think when they had that shadow issue and EA's support was clogged up with requests, it made them realize that supporting the game was not worth the struggle and money. This could probably be part of their motive as unfortunately TS2 is quite a buggy game for the unexperienced player. For me, if they were to re-release it, my minimum hope is that they at-least incorporate some anti-corruption fixes as nowadays companies don't get away with selling broken products.

As a Mac player, Super Collection has been upgraded for 64-bit and there's only one confirmed broken cheat, yet there's bound to be other issues that have yet to be confirmed. I'd also hope that this re-release would be ported for both Mac and Windows but its unclear how long Aspyr's license (or distribution rights) for the Mac games will last. It's possible that it may be forever which would be a huge bummer.

But imagine, if they do release a reissued version, everybody here will be up in arms and scrambling trying to figure out what has been fixed and what hasn't. There will need to be a whole team dedicated to figuring out of a whole section of mods are still functional and/or required.

I think they figure that the UC was the Sims 2 reissued when they did it, and that's why they're not going to do anything like that again. The closest I think they will do is perhaps open the door for a free download again of the UC just to shut everyone up.

Because it's pretty obvious they've moved on and they're leaving Sims 2 in the graveyard where they think it should be, despite being the granddaddy of all the other games done since then.

I totally get where you're coming from and agree with a lot of your points. I also remember the TS2 rain thing and I remember downloading a rain mod before Seasons haha. It's just that, well, I've been thinking about it, and we're so used to Sims games having a million expansions, most games have none or just a few. I guess I just... It's the fifth time around they're (presumably) making this game. Stuff are obviously doable as they are added in later expansions. There's also the problem with expansions borking each other or missed opportunities of the expansions intertwining where it would make sense. If they are working on a new game it's taking longer than the others, but that doesn't have to mean anything in terms of quality. I think it would be fair to, this time around, at least include seasons and some basic pets. Then it would make sense to have things like supernatural or farming as expansions as everyone aren't interested in that. But I would be very, very surprised if that happened. A remake of TS2 is something I would also really like but also don't think will ever happen.

Just to compare how Microsoft handled their very old game and for you to correct your wishes:
A game Age of Empires 2: Rerelease (2013) made it available to play on newer computers, has low demand for computer specs and is just a same game what we played 20 years ago with bugfixes and MS support.
Remastered (2019) on other hand has new features, updated graphics what has high demand for videocard (a 2GB memory videocard what I don't have). It has high demand for computer spec, is updated frequently with adding new content and bugfixes.

Probably you will understand why many of us want just rerelease TS2 (UC). EA need just make more common bugfixes (or use existing bugfixes provided by community) and set it to sale on Origin.
Remastered TS2 will need more modern computers what many of us don't have and cannot handle due to high prices.
TS5 needs to be not TS2 and not TS3 and not TS Mobile but something totally new, what I think the best minds of EA cannot think of yet.

I'd prefer a no-Origin rerelease with bugfixes, MS support, 64-bit support to some degree, anyway), and maybe some possible updates to some core files that don't affect most current CC (but I think we all know that's a long shot).

EA's rereleases and newer versions of games have a tendency to lose something in the process of upgraded graphics and so forth, be it playability or charm.

I want the source code so we can make new stuff. It's not like they're going to get any more money off us anyway.

They still need a online store, It will be better to have variety: Steam, Epic Games, Origin and some others with availability to save on cloud, so our backups will be stored online.

No Origin required to just play the game. You can log onto Origin if you want to back up your saves or buy something from the Store.

Most of the things EA is asked to do above - in my humble opinion - is already possible due to the hard work of creators and modders.
You, the players and creators, made the body sliders, you made the hairs, you made the clothing, the skins, eyes and makeup for us.
You made the essential mods to help to keep the game safe, you made the mods to fix the annoyances.
You made the fabulous furniture, modern, vintage, Victorian, classic - wo that we can decorate our sim houses.
You made the doors and the windows and the windows and the walls and the floors and the fences and the chimneys and the stairs so that we can build better.
You built the better houses and bars and restaurants and hotels and cathedrals and libraries and art galleries and theatres.
You made the custom hoods and the custom business hoods and the custom vacation hoods and the cleaned up templates and the empty templates.
You hacked the objects so that sims can gain charisma by singing karaoke, use a library, have a hacked wedding and does not have to weed the garden 24 hours a sim day.
You made the sky mods and the water mods and the camera mods and the lighting mods.

You - the players - did this.

We don't need EA to make the Sims 2 better. We do need them to simply make it available.

Pass the Vodka.

*simsample passes vodka to @Justpetro *
I'll drink to that, very true! No matter what Sims 5 is like, we still have the previous iterations. And all the lovely custom content!

The most obvious problem EA has never approached is what everyone has stated in this thread:

By this time, EA knows without a doubt that their customers expect certain features/functions in their Sim games-be it weather, babies,(I couldn't believe one iteration didn't have babies!) aspirations, motives, items or even just basic gameplay in any successor to Sims 2.

I know they know this beyond a doubt. I also know that they've been milking the players from their money for 10 years since Sims 3 for each and every 'forgotten' or misplaced feature or function that came with either the base game Sims 2, or EP's thereafter, leading players to complain that EA is ignoring their wishes.

I also realize, as so many others have, that EA is an opportunistic and greedy company with very few ethics when it comes to teasing players with the lure of yet another disappointing 'game' that has the label of a "Sims" title.

And that they really don't care about their customers in the pursuit of money.

Shame on them.

I'd be fine with a downloadable version that didn't need Origin or being online in any way to run (because they've probably given up hard copies by now and I'm not having any real hopes of them going back to that format). It's the "needs Origin running in the background" or "needs to be online always" versions I have qualms with...



I don't drink, but if you pass me some apple juice I'll toast to that! Players have always done what EA refuses to do - make the games (at least) a hundred times more fun, playable and enjoyable.

You honestly think we'd still be keeping TS2 and TS3 going without all the modding? I'm not even sure TS4 would've survived this long without modders, and that one is still getting official updates! I think there's even a number of TS1 players still going strong.

==
"udderly"? are you channeling Mootilda? mooooo

The main thing I wish you could do that you can't is port animations from other Sims games. I'd like the beach volleyball from Sims 1 and the tree that cats could climb from the PS version.

...and yet I lie awake at night imagining a NEW SIms, a renamed Sims. With the best of all the Sims, and something that would take all the CC that SIms2 takes. Something build on a MODERN engine that can do a better job. Something for serious players, with serious desk-top computers. Something with so many wonder features...but I know I'm just dreaming. yet..wouldn't this generate $$$ (I would buy it!) and be worth some company's effort? But if it were made by EA I would never even consider it

I have little doubt EA is indeed "an opportunistic and greedy company with very few ethics". But they have somehow managed to run their business in such a way that they have got very little from me in exchange for the years of pleasure my Sims have given me.

Of course I came late to the party. As far as EA were concerned, Sims 2 was already on its way out when I paid my £7 in my local supermarket for Double Deluxe in October 2012. The Sims 2 official site was still going, but only lasted until the following January. Some time later I bought a new (shrink-wrapped) Copy of Open for Business online for £1.99. By the time I bought University in October 2016, new unopened copies of Sims 2 EPs were few and far between, so I bought a send-hand copy from CeX for £1.50. That meant that my game cost me a grand total of £10.49 to buy. How much of that got back to EA/Maxis I don't know, but I'll warrant it wasn't much! Once Double Deluxe had shown me how good the game was, I'd have been happy to buy my EPs at full price, but EA wouldn't sell. I'd still be willing to pay real money for a patch to fix all the corruption issues.

Instead EA brings out stuff that doesn't interest me in the least. I fear TS5 will come into that category. In fact the only new feature they could add that would really persuade me to buy a new version of The Sims, would be a virtual reality feature that would let me walk round Veronaville and meet my Sims face to face. And yes, I must be able to import Veronaville into the new game, as I really want to hang out with my existing Sims in their own town. :lovestruc

I was too. "Milking"

I still miss her, too.

EA has never really been good with what a good game is and what people want, but is it that they don't understand what people want, or that they just do their own thing and don't actually care? One could argue it's their game idea and that they don't actually have to take "our" ideas into account, but game companies do use focus groups and testers and whatnots to check if they've reached their target audience (when are they going to realize their target group is no longer 12-16 year olds but more like 12-70+ or something along those lines? ) so either they're asking the wrong people or they're not taking in any of the information they're getting. There's always been something iffy with their "you've been asking for this so here's *something random somebody asked for in a post 4 years ago* item/function"

I think one of the problems is that they now have 4 other games to be compared to. The good stuff they have to "live up to" and the bad stuff everyone would rather be without. Then there's also the middle ground with all the stuff one group of people want to see again exactly the way it was, another group doesn't want at all, and a third group wants a variant that's very different from the first group, but you can't have all three, so someone is going to be disappointed. Multiply this with, I don't know, a hundred different functions in the game, and it's all going to be a mess.

We're simply expecting them to have this and that in the game because we've had this and that in previous games. I mean - if you are making a number #5, there are things they won't get away with this time - especially if it's something most of the previous games had and they say they can't do it, or they wait until EP 15 to add something very basic.

Another problem is that they usually want to make the least amount of game for the least amount of money, that people are willing to buy - preferably overpriced even when it's on sale.

That's what they get for marketing TS3 and TS4 games as The Sims 3 and The Sims 4 (although I'd say the latter being "especially"). If you can't upgrade it, why name it as such? It's not helping mass to deal with it and take it easy that they're not longer working on the series where it was left. A pig with an ugly lipstick doesn't make it a better pig. It needs to clean, cared, fed and etc.