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Instructor
Original Poster
#1 Old 22nd Mar 2021 at 10:52 PM Last edited by echoweaver : 1st Jun 2021 at 6:09 PM.
Default The Pets Expansion Expansion
I've noticed that MsPat and Lyralei and some other modders have created progress/idea threads for th. I'd love brainstorming from the community if anyone is interested in this subject.

The beginning of my story is that my 10yo kid started a Warrior Cats Challenge. I got into finding mods and cc for it, and I was appalled to see how much of the challenge involved using a human sim to do things for the cats. It drilled home for me the problem I see with the Pets expansion -- dogs and cats just can't do very much. They're fun to build and look at, but I very quickly end up leaving them on autonomy to run around and be eye candy.

Pets have exactly one skill, Hunting. Their wish trees don't go very deep. They don't have LTWs. Food they obtain by hunting themselves provides so little Hunger motive by default that it's irrelevant to their survival -- humans must feed them. Cats can catch minor pets for their humans, and dogs can search out and dig out collectables for same. Dogs can also be taught tricks, which look cute and can be performed for tricks at high levels.

I sketched out a mod outlining what I thought would make the Warrior Cats Challenge a more interesting challenge that's actually about cats, and that has grown into custom skill ideas like the fishing skill, which I put up in Feedback (https://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=653684). I've since received feedback that persistence is a thing. Oops . So I'm fixing that.

In addition to the Fishing skill outlined on the feedback post, I'm currently working on a Fighting skill.

Features of that skill that are currently under development:
  • Skill for cats and dogs.
  • Skill is used for deciding who wins pet-pet and pet-human fights. The Pets EP currently uses the Hunting skill, which they use for all skill checks with pets.
  • Build skill by fighting, guarding, and goofing around.
  • In addition to just fighting, add interaction to specifically drive stranger/enemy sims off the lot. Not just the Postman! Either replace the current Guard interaction with this one or provide a new interaction.
  • Fights can result in wounds of three levels: Minor, Serious, and Grave. These wounds become less likely as Fight skill increases. The wound moodlets speed up hunger and fatigue motives.
  • If a pet passes out or loses a fight with an active Grave Wound moodlet, the pet dies. This will be tunable for players who don't want their kitties and puppies to have a chance of death

In conversation with other players, the idea of human medical care for wounds came up. That could straightforwardly balloon out to diseases and even a vet career.

Another suggestion was LTWs. I've heard tell that someone has done a proof-of-concept for Pet LTWs, and it's relatively straightforward. That begs the question: What are some good LTWs for pets?

Thirdly, yesterday on a Sims Discord, we had a blast sharing videos of the pet careers from TS2. I hear tell that there has also been a proof-of-concept done in giving pets careers, and it can be done. TS2 had three careers. Would it be worth looking at pet careers?

What other stuff might make pets more fun?

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
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Test Subject
#2 Old 22nd Mar 2021 at 11:08 PM
All sounds awesome . Any mod including the word 'expansion' immediately has my interest haha.

Would be great to see this stuff, love the idea of maybe having a vets career down the line but the skill additions & depth to pets will be much welcomed for sure!

Be interested to see if you can create careers for pets! Or at least some kindof faux career system would be cool!

All the best!

SSD

Creating Sim State Expansion for The Sims 3. :)
Instructor
Original Poster
#3 Old 22nd Mar 2021 at 11:28 PM Last edited by echoweaver : 24th Mar 2021 at 6:18 PM.
Mechanics for witch familiars maybe?? I think there's currently a moodlet or something.

ETA: Sims wiki defines some interesting possibilities for familiars in Sims 4 https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Familiar

Am I correct in remembering that dogs have a chance of saving their masters from Grim?

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Instructor
Original Poster
#4 Old 24th Mar 2021 at 6:06 PM
I'm delighted that my testing indicates that any ghost shader can be applied to pets, even though they only get "good pet" blue and "bad pet" red by EA. Sims wiki says pets can also die by Ambitions meteor and get that shader.

This brings up a miscellaneous fixes category, too, where pets can starve to death rather than be picked up by the social worker. Dogs can swim. Sims wiki indicates that pets can't drown, however. In other miscellaneous minor changes, I'd like to port swimming over to cats and allow both to drown.

Cats can swim just as well as dogs can. The just don't LIKE it . It'd be appropriate for cats to get a negative moodlet while swimming. I have converted adult sim animations to child. It's worth at least trying to see if the same technique would convert a dog animation to a cat.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Field Researcher
#5 Old 24th Mar 2021 at 8:04 PM
Can't wait to see dogs swim! And yes cats should legitimately hate the swimming, haha.

So excited for all the discoveries you're making! TS3 pets need all the love they can get.
Virtual gardener
staff: administrator
#6 Old 25th Mar 2021 at 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissPat
Can't wait to see dogs swim! And yes cats should legitimately hate the swimming, haha.

So excited for all the discoveries you're making! TS3 pets need all the love they can get.
Haha seconding this! :D years ago I was working on an active career for vets though, although I would have given you the code if I still had it...  but I'm already loving what you're suggesting!

Now, I will say, as horrible as it sounds :p I remember with the sims 2, I'd have a starters house where basically any kind of money was super necessary. I feel like ts3 is as well but slightly easier in that regard but it's still hard :p.  So it would be awesome to have the ability of pets going to work as well!  I was just wondering if that would be a cool thing to do as well (or even people liking that idea) to give pets a career? 

I do also like the idea that pets can be effective with witches. Because it's not just cats, depending on what book you're reading :p Now, from reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat-s%C3%ACth something that could be created into a gameplay thingy is this:

Quote:
Some people believed that the cat-sìth was a witch that could transform voluntarily into its cat form and back nine times.[1] If one of these witches chose to go back into their cat form for the ninth time, they would remain a cat for the rest of their lives.[1] It is believed by some that this is how the idea of a cat having nine lives originated.[1]
Not sure about the ninth thing but that's yours and others decision to make lol :p but I think it's already a thing where if a sim owns a cat as a witch, that they can already generate their magic bar quicker? But I do like the idea of familiars to ts3! 

Quote:
Am I correct in remembering that dogs have a chance of saving their masters from Grim?
Yep they can save them!
Instructor
Original Poster
#7 Old 25th Mar 2021 at 4:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissPat
Can't wait to see dogs swim! And yes cats should legitimately hate the swimming, haha.

So excited for all the discoveries you're making! TS3 pets need all the love they can get.


I didn't make dogs swim. Wiki says they can swim, but only in swimming pools. I'm looking for the code now, but it certainly seems like it ought to be straightforward to enable it for all bodies of water. The ability to port the animation to cats is less of a sure thing .

Re familiars: I rather like the idea that a familiar could save their master from death under some circumstances. In Sims 4, it looks like they can provide extra spell energy. Seems like there should be more .

I am closing in on a releasable set of features for pet fighting. I've never had a dog chase a mailman off the lot. I'd like to make that an interaction for a pet and any stranger human.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Instructor
Original Poster
#8 Old 26th Mar 2021 at 2:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by echoweaver
I didn't make dogs swim. Wiki says they can swim, but only in swimming pools. I'm looking for the code now, but it certainly seems like it ought to be straightforward to enable it for all bodies of water.


Any there it is, confusingly named "DoggySwimHere" and "DoggySwimAround" just to make it hard to search for.

I think the only thing I'll need to do for dogs is change the terrain test to include all bodies of water.

There's also "DoggyGetInPool," which I assume is some kind of adorable jump and splash. I'll have to see how the interaction goes without it, since it won't make sense for locations with a natural sloping entry.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
#9 Old 26th Mar 2021 at 6:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by echoweaver
What other stuff might make pets more fun?


I've been wanting for years to see playable large birds. Anyone who deals with parrots knows how much personality they have. Imagine having destruction options like "chew the furniture" or "poop on x person", or playful like "prank call" once a speech stat is high enough!
Instructor
Original Poster
#10 Old 26th Mar 2021 at 3:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackjackGabbiani
I've been wanting for years to see playable large birds. Anyone who deals with parrots knows how much personality they have. Imagine having destruction options like "chew the furniture" or "poop on x person", or playful like "prank call" once a speech stat is high enough!


Oh, that would be brilliant.

The animations used for the shoulder dragons look like they're usable for birds, so that would give some options for expansion.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
#11 Old 28th Mar 2021 at 5:20 AM
Also I think it would be fun to be able to vacation with your pets, even though that would require people to edit base camps to get supplies in there beforehand. Still, I think enough people do that anyway that you could get away with just adding a note reminding people to do so.
Instructor
Original Poster
#12 Old 28th Mar 2021 at 10:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackjackGabbiani
Also I think it would be fun to be able to vacation with your pets, even though that would require people to edit base camps to get supplies in there beforehand. Still, I think enough people do that anyway that you could get away with just adding a note reminding people to do so.


I'm not sure, but I THINK this is something that can be enabled using NRaas Traveler. I know that it can enable pregnant sim and toddler travel.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Mad Poster
#13 Old 29th Mar 2021 at 1:04 AM Last edited by jje1000 : 29th Mar 2021 at 1:14 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackjackGabbiani
I've been wanting for years to see playable large birds. Anyone who deals with parrots knows how much personality they have. Imagine having destruction options like "chew the furniture" or "poop on x person", or playful like "prank call" once a speech stat is high enough!

Quote:
Originally Posted by echoweaver
Oh, that would be brilliant.

The animations used for the shoulder dragons look like they're usable for birds, so that would give some options for expansion.

Seconding this- big birds like parrots are by all means smarter and longer-living than dogs and cats, almost being the equivalent of a small toddler. Secondly, they can have big and unique personalities as well! I think that making them playable is probably too hard, but porting the dragon interactions/animations over to large birds and maybe giving them traits based on the dragons (green likes to collect, purple likes to talk, red is aggressive) would be tremendous in expanding their scope.

I also have the suspicion that they used the big bird rig as a basis for the dragon to save work (since their shapes and sizes are similar)- hopefully that might make some of process easier!

As of now, big birds can fly around enclosed spaces on their own, right? I wonder what other things could be done to increase their freedom?

Secondly, I wonder what autonomy cats and dogs have that can be extended to make them more realistic, independent and less of an accessory for sims? Personally, I haven't played with them enough to form a solid opinion, but I am curious to see how they can be improved.
Instructor
Original Poster
#14 Old 29th Mar 2021 at 5:18 PM Last edited by echoweaver : 29th Mar 2021 at 7:09 PM.
Yes, I missed the part about making birds playable. That's far beyond my knowledge . OTOH, expanding their gameplay seems possible.

I agree about the shoulder dragons vs birds. About half the shoulder dragon animations are clearly the same as big birds. I've only ever played with a red shoulder dragon, so I'm not familiar with the interactions of the various colors. A lot of it focuses on things like blasting your enemy with fireballs, which is of limited utility.

One thing I'd really like is the ability to carry a bird/dragon on your shoulder while you walk around without sticking it back in your bag of holding every time you engage in any interaction.

ETA: The animations from the shoulder dragons are not as inspiring as I'd hoped.

Still, I could imagine big birds grabbing small items around the lot and hoarding them, for example.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Instructor
Original Poster
#15 Old 3rd May 2021 at 7:48 PM
I stumbled upon an ancient community built around improving pets. There weren't a ton of threads, but what's in there has some great suggestions. I'm pondering the animal breeder career... https://modthesims.info/forumdispla...546&groupid=690

(I think that's visible to people who didn't join the group?)

Animal breeding might be something that could be handled with a self-employed career with a few added interactions. I don't know much about what the game can determine about the "purebred" status of a pet, though this thread indicates that it tracks something for dogs at least.

The thread focuses largely on computer interactions. There's also the possibility of scamming customers, which I love.
A trait-based interaction for our more ethically-questionable sims.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Mad Poster
#16 Old 6th May 2021 at 5:39 AM
One comment- noticed a comment regarding littlemssam's foster care system for TS4 (https://littlemssam.tumblr.com/post...he-lms-foster)-, and I was wondering if something like that might work for pets in TS3?

So basically it would built upon the in-game adoption system, but you'd only be taking care of a pet for a period of time before it gets adopted out to its metaphorical 'forever home'.
Instructor
Original Poster
#17 Old 7th May 2021 at 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jje1000
One comment- noticed a comment regarding littlemssam's foster care system for TS4 (https://littlemssam.tumblr.com/post...he-lms-foster)-, and I was wondering if something like that might work for pets in TS3?

So basically it would built upon the in-game adoption system, but you'd only be taking care of a pet for a period of time before it gets adopted out to its metaphorical 'forever home'.


Huh! That's almost like a daycare career for pets. Doesn't pay in the real world. You do it for love. But who knows in Sims world...

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Instructor
Original Poster
#18 Old 12th May 2021 at 4:09 AM
Here's another old thread with some Pets thoughts. https://modthesims.info/showthread....25#startcomment

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Instructor
Original Poster
#19 Old 12th May 2021 at 2:32 PM
Currently working on fixes to the half-finished pet breeds.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Lab Assistant
#20 Old 14th May 2021 at 3:28 PM
Wow! You're doing everything I've wanted to do and more! I'm very happy and excited but I also admit to being incredibly jealous, sorry. But please know that I am with you on this 100% and all the way! I love this project so much, I mean c'mon, an expansion mod for pets? You're practically calling my name!

For months, and I mean months now I've been trying to make more pet mods, because my focus in TS3 has always landed on the pets because I love them so much. Since then thrown myself into trying to learn how to code TS3 specifically, but I've made very, very little progress. I still basically know absolutely nothing, but I refuse to give up! Besides that though, the three major mods I had planned were: Make Dogs Be Able To Swim In The Ocean, Alot More Pet Moodlets, and the one I'm putting my all into trying to make happen right now, Make Aggressive Animals More Dangerous. Another one that I really wanted to do was a Rabies mod using the flea system in-game somehow.

Like I said, I'm trying to make the last three mods myself, but you clearly actually know what you're doing, so you are completely free to take these mod ideas for yourself if you'd like! :D

Oh c'mon. There better be a point to all this stress I'm under.
Instructor
Original Poster
#21 Old 25th May 2021 at 6:28 PM
I hadn't thought of rabies! Of course! I'd thought of making the "Germy" moodlet for dogs extend to cats and have more consequences. I also brainstormed the idea of dogs eating spoiled food left on tables and getting sick.

I'd love to know what your plan is for the aggressive animals mod.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Instructor
Original Poster
#22 Old 1st Jun 2021 at 5:17 PM Last edited by echoweaver : 1st Jun 2021 at 6:07 PM.
Thinking about what one would do to implement rabies.

PetWebMD says:

"Physical signs of rabies in dogs to watch for include fever, difficulty swallowing, excessive drooling, staggering, seizures, and even paralysis. As the virus progresses, your dog may act as though they are overstimulated, meaning lights, movement, and sound may appear to have a negative effect."

"The symptoms of rabies include:
Changes in behavior. Cats who are usually calm may become excitable or agitated. Extroverted cats may become less affectionate and may isolate themselves.
Aggression. Cats can become excitable, aggressive, and vicious towards humans or other animals.
Drooling. Rabies can affect muscles in a cat’s mouth so they can’t swallow. They may drool or foam at the mouth.
Loss of muscle control. The final stages of rabies cause paralysis and coma."

ETA: Of course, it's also transmissible to humans, and it's REALLY lethal -- more than I realized with modern medicine. If I read right, humans almost always die of it if it progresses enough to have symptoms. I have a fairly strong feeling that death shouldn't be too capricious in Sims. I don't want to introduce a disease that is lethal and can't be cured. If I make an attempt at rabies, I think it's going to have to be more treatable than the real thing.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Lab Assistant
#23 Old 3rd Jun 2021 at 3:03 AM
Yes, @echoweaver rabies is an incredibly lethal and utterly terrifying affliction, to the point where I have often explained its lethality to others that I come into contact with in my field by saying that, "If you ever get rabies, you're essentially already dead," it helps put into their perspective of how dangerous it can be to interact with dogs and cats with unknown health statuses. That said, I understand the game balancing that lies within making rabies easier to treat should a human sim get infected, but personally I enjoy deadly and or serious consequences in The Sims, gives me a thrill and makes me think about the decisions I make and allow my sims themselves to make.

If you had to ask me about how I would handle rabies in humans I would go about it like this; a dog or cat in-game transmitting rabies to a human is only possible by interactions involving their claws or their tongue, so the smoochie or attack or fight interactions, for example. Now, I haven't had the time to open my game and play for a good minute, but I wager that since some interactions need to be unlocked by interaction level, see the smoochie, attack, and fight interactions, you can have it to where the infection rate is more probable the more a given sim interacts with the rabies-infected animal. With that, I imagine an NPC sim would only get infected if they had a pretty bad relationship with the sim, and then if the opposite were true i.e the animal has a good relationship with the sim, you could say that the sim going with the smoochie interaction would be stupid. Given traits, I imagine human sims with the Clueless, Unlucky, Insane, Loser, and Daredevil traits would up the chance of being infected, while humans sims with the Genius, Perceptive, Brave, Lucky, and Neat traits would have a decreased chance of being infected. Human sims with the Dog Lover, Cat Lover, or Animal Lover traits have an extremely low chance of getting infected, as they know an animal with rabies when they see one due to being well invested in them. You could even call them cat/dog behaviorists at this point. Last but not least, you can have a rabies shot interaction at the hospital just like the flu shot interaction, I'd find it best that you'd have to have the infected sim get it on the same day or the day right after they were infected, or else the shot will be useless and your sim is good as dead. Oh! And there would also be a visual drooling effect with rabies-infected animals, like the fleas visual effect.

I'm fully aware that's it's more than likely either impossible or extremely hard to code all of this, but it is simply a way I would go about doing it if it were possible. Just thoughts, if you will.

As for my Aggressive Animals mod, it actually came into my mind because well, I work with actually aggressive dogs and cats for a living, and it's a lot more stressful and difficult and genuinely dangerous than people realize. I want to bring that realism to the Sims 3. For an overview of what I want the mod to add/do: Aggressive cats and dogs will be capable of killing other pets. Dogs will be capable of killing human sims, other dogs both big and small, and cats. Although cats can only kill other cats and small dogs. Whether a dog or cat will go for a kill will depend on their relationship with the target and the cat or dog's mood. I also have a plan for a "Sicc Em'!" interaction for dogs with the Aggressive or Loyal traits, and sims with the Dog Lover, Evil, Brave, or Insane traits. This is where a human sim with any of those four traits can command a dog with any of those two traits and good relationship with the human sim to target another sim or cat or dog. Pretty dark I know, but it's kind of my life? And for some strange reason I wanna see it in the sims.

Oh c'mon. There better be a point to all this stress I'm under.
Instructor
Original Poster
#24 Old 3rd Jun 2021 at 4:27 PM
@LittleCheshire Wow. If it's not too personal, may I ask what you job is?

I agree that's a complicated disease contagion model, but I don't think there's anything in there that would be insane to code individually.

I've been working through a model of fighting and injuries, though it got hung up on some animation troubles, and I'm trying to get myself back to it. In my model, fights between animals could grant an injury moodlet at levels Minor, Serious, and Grave. All three moodlets accelerate Hunger and Fatigue moodlets. If a pet passes out or starves with one of these moodlets active, it will die of the injury. The moodlets have varying physical effects, with a Grave injury forcing a pet to walk slowly and otherwise look as miserable as I can manage.

If a pet loses a fight with a Grave wound, it will die of the injury. If a pet engages in a fight and gains another wound, the wound moodlets will stack.

In vanilla sims, cats have an Attack Sim interaction but dogs do not (wtf). Attacked humans just get a "Shredded Dignity" moodlet. It's pretty straightforward to add more consequences to that interaction. I've been trying to figure out if it's possible to add the interaction for small dogs and adapt the same animation. Large dogs are going to need something different, and I am not sure what that would be.

Echo Weaver's Simblr: http://echoweaver.tumblr.com/
A portrait in stubbornness - Playing the same legacy since 2009
Sample a Brave Legacy: http://sims3sample.illation.net
Lab Assistant
#25 Old 5th Jun 2021 at 1:29 AM
I don't mind you asking me about my job at all, however being able to answer you is a bit tricky, since I don't really have one specific job. I work with domestic animals, most commonly cats and dogs, but I have been known to do a little work with horses from time to time because the pay is usually worth it. I am more often a kennel technician and dog trainer, but I am also a canine behaviorist and do behavorial work as well. I'm not as much of vet technician as I used to be but I do help out in that line of work every once in a blue moon nowadays.

That said, incredibly interested in your model for fighting and injuries! Especially the possibility of death feature, as morbid as that sounds. I understand why EAxis refused to implement other ways for pets to die other than old age and meteor, as more gruesome animal death such as death by fire or drowning can be extremely upsetting, but I do think your feature model where pets can die from injuries would give players an incentive to actually manage and watch their pets. And when I say manage and watch I don't mean control them like you normally control your humans sims, I mean, for example, with two cats with the aggressive trait in place living in the same area, you would definitely want to keep an eye on them to make sure they don't lethally harm each other. Which is exactly something you would do in real life, which makes me unreasonably happy. I'm excited to see what you have in store for this mod idea.

I've been pretty busy this week due to work and other things, so I haven't been in the right mindset to try an code as of late. But I have been looking into other things I'm thinking I'd like to do, such as CC making. I'd like to put in some different types of dog colors and canine related objects. I've been wanting to make custom markings as well, but for cats as they don't get much in the CC department as dogs and horses do. I'm also wondering that due to the existence of default replacement hairs, makeup, brows, etc, for human sims if it's possible to create default replacement breeds for the pets in-game.

Some of the bases are good or decent, but most of them are very, very much lacking.

Oh c'mon. There better be a point to all this stress I'm under.
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