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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 3rd Apr 2022 at 5:02 AM
Default What does incomplete character file mean?
This is a HIGHLY technical question, but I'm too busy thinking about this to sleep to here goes-
When discussing corruption, I often hear about how you shouldn't play as certain sims, namely certain types of NPCs, and the premade dead sims in the base game neighborhoods, because "they have incomplete character files." As a disclaimer, I'll take experts' words on this, and believe that it's indeed unsafe to play as those sims- but since they're called incomplete character files- what exactly is missing from the sim's character file? What data is say, a social worker missing, compared to a maid? And as a side note, would it be possible to manually add the missing data to these incomplete character files, to create a whole, safe to play character file?

Justice for Viola Monty!
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Lab Assistant
#2 Old 3rd Apr 2022 at 5:10 AM Last edited by MickeyIan : 3rd Apr 2022 at 5:12 AM. Reason: Added info
Quote: Originally posted by Smefanye
This is a HIGHLY technical question, but I'm too busy thinking about this to sleep to here goes-
When discussing corruption, I often hear about how you shouldn't play as certain sims, namely certain types of NPCs, and the premade dead sims in the base game neighborhoods, because "they have incomplete character files." As a disclaimer, I'll take experts' words on this, and believe that it's indeed unsafe to play as those sims- but since they're called incomplete character files- what exactly is missing from the sim's character file? What data is say, a social worker missing, compared to a maid? And as a side note, would it be possible to manually add the missing data to these incomplete character files, to create a whole, safe to play character file?


It means that they don't have the full character data that regular sims have and often they don't have the full range of interactions that regular sims have. A good set of rules to follow regarding which sims to interreact with is: an actual name (not Unsavory Chartlan or Social Worker), and a full range of interactions that regular sims have. Also "sims" such as Mrs. Crumplebottom are considered objects and messing with them affects the objects package and could lead to game corruption which results in having to reinstall the game (a pain no matter if you have the discs or the Ultimate Collection). Far as I know it is not possible to add to the incomplete character data at least without the source code.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#3 Old 3rd Apr 2022 at 1:39 PM
Quote: Originally posted by MickeyIan
It means that they don't have the full character data that regular sims have and often they don't have the full range of interactions that regular sims have. A good set of rules to follow regarding which sims to interreact with is: an actual name (not Unsavory Chartlan or Social Worker), and a full range of interactions that regular sims have. Also "sims" such as Mrs. Crumplebottom are considered objects and messing with them affects the objects package and could lead to game corruption which results in having to reinstall the game (a pain no matter if you have the discs or the Ultimate Collection).

I'm sorry if I'm being rude, but I already knew this. I want to know what character data these sims are missing. Of course, the part about not being able to complete the character files without access to the source code is new, and a bit disappointing; I had hoped one could use SimPE to fix sims like that.

Justice for Viola Monty!
Mad Poster
#4 Old 3rd Apr 2022 at 10:22 PM
That's been the general advice on that particular NPC, but if I go into the files right now and compare the Social Worker character file to Kaylynn Langerak's character file (who is still an NPC in my game) the only difference in what resources are there is that the Social Worker is missing three audio files, which I don't know the contents of, is missing a BCON having to do with the dialog that the maid spawns to ask if she should stay over after she's finished, and contains some extra text lists, some of which seem to have to do with animations for baby-related stuff. It's possible that she used to be missing character data in some earlier version of the game but isn't now, or people just assumed she was because she doesn't have a normal name.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#5 Old 4th Apr 2022 at 12:15 AM
Quote: Originally posted by kestrellyn
That's been the general advice on that particular NPC, but if I go into the files right now and compare the Social Worker character file to Kaylynn Langerak's character file (who is still an NPC in my game) the only difference in what resources are there is that the Social Worker is missing three audio files, which I don't know the contents of, is missing a BCON having to do with the dialog that the maid spawns to ask if she should stay over after she's finished, and contains some extra text lists, some of which seem to have to do with animations for baby-related stuff. It's possible that she used to be missing character data in some earlier version of the game but isn't now, or people just assumed she was because she doesn't have a normal name.


Wait, so might the Social Worker be actually safe to play??? Huh. How about comparing another known safe NPC with the Repo-Man, Social Bunny, and a Carpool Driver? They're the other unsafe NPCs that came with the base game. I'm pretty sure the Repo-Man is missing a good deal more data than say, the Social Worker, because when I added him to a household (Don't worry! It was a throwaway hood. Sometimes I just want to blow off some steam, but I don't want to burn 20 sims in my main neighborhood to death) he had no voice, and his plumbbob was inside his chest, so that doesn't exactly scream "safe to play."

Also, if you don't mind me bothering you, check Claudio and Olivia Monty, and Contessa Capp. I know the advice is to never resurrect dead sims in the base game hoods... but from everything I know, the three of them being dead seems to have been a pretty last minute story decision. Surely they can't be missing too much data compared to their living relatives? I can clearly see that about the other hoods' dead sims- Darleen Dreamer is the easiest Pleasantview sim to resurrect, but she has a blank personality and genetics, while Jessica Ebadi and Danielle Greaves, who are the easiest Strangetown sims to resurrect, are still unlinked in a way that means you have to move their graves to resurrect them. All in all, the trio of Claudio, Olivia, and Contessa seem to be by far the least broken base game dead sims.

Justice for Viola Monty!
Mad Poster
#6 Old 4th Apr 2022 at 1:20 AM
The only main difference between the Repo Man character file and the Social Worker/Kaylynn character files is that the Repo Man has two audio files, although only one of them has the same instance as one of Kaylynn's, and he has fewer functions, and a lot of his BCONs are missing values. The functions are related to NPC behavior and regular playables don't have them, and the BCONs with the missing values seem related to hirable NPCs, so probably they're just not relevant to the Repo Man at all. Some sim data is stored in the neighborhood package though, rather than in the character file, and like, for example, if I go look up the SDSCs in the neighborhood package, the Social Worker and the Repo Man don't have turn ons, whereas Kaylynn does. It's possible that they're also missing other data in the neighborhood package, but I don't have a complete list of what should be there. The Repo Man does have a voice type listed in the SDSC, but it's just a number, I don't know which ones correspond to which voices, and IIRC the Repo Man does have a special voice that's probably missing recordings for more typical sim activities. It might be possible to remedy that by changing his voice type to match another playable's, but I'm not sure.

For the dead playables, I think most of them were made safe to resurrect in the clean templates, but you'd have to check what it says on the downloads for more information.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#7 Old 4th Apr 2022 at 3:14 AM
Quote: Originally posted by kestrellyn
The only main difference between the Repo Man character file and the Social Worker/Kaylynn character files is that the Repo Man has two audio files, although only one of them has the same instance as one of Kaylynn's, and he has fewer functions, and a lot of his BCONs are missing values. The functions are related to NPC behavior and regular playables don't have them, and the BCONs with the missing values seem related to hirable NPCs, so probably they're just not relevant to the Repo Man at all. Some sim data is stored in the neighborhood package though, rather than in the character file, and like, for example, if I go look up the SDSCs in the neighborhood package, the Social Worker and the Repo Man don't have turn ons, whereas Kaylynn does. It's possible that they're also missing other data in the neighborhood package, but I don't have a complete list of what should be there. The Repo Man does have a voice type listed in the SDSC, but it's just a number, I don't know which ones correspond to which voices, and IIRC the Repo Man does have a special voice that's probably missing recordings for more typical sim activities. It might be possible to remedy that by changing his voice type to match another playable's, but I'm not sure.


Figures that the Social Worker is missing some data. I feel like someone would've figured out that Social Workers were actually safe to play as before I did if they actually were. But still, missing turn-ons and turn-offs seems to be (mostly) benign. What's the data missing that causes them and other unsafe NPCs to be genuinely unsafe for a neighborhood to play? Or are missing turn-ons and turn-offs less minor than I would think, and do those minor issues spiral into larger ones that eventually make a neighborhood? And if so, how?

Quote: Originally posted by kestrellyn
For the dead playables, I think most of them were made safe to resurrect in the clean templates, but you'd have to check what it says on the downloads for more information.


Generally clean templates do, in fact, make all dead playables (at least ones who aren't deleted outright) safe to play. I know this firsthand- my main neighborhood is Tarlia's clean Pleasantview with Strangetown and Veronaville attached. But I'm talking specifically about the maxis base game neighborhoods, as shipped in all their buggy glory. I've repeatedly heard that even the deceased sims that seem safe, like Darleen Dreamer, Jessica Ebadi, and Claudio Monty, have incomplete character files and shouldn't be resurrected. I can see how resurrecting a sim like Lyla Grunt would cause her severely outdated and damaged data to spread to other sims, eventually causing major problems, but I suppose that seemingly safer dead playables would have situations similar to unsafe NPCs, with seemingly minor problems cascading into ones too big to ignore. But I need to KNOW. At least, eventually. I don't want to be super naggy with you kestrellyn, and I'd want to find this all out for myself, but I haven't a clue on how to go through SimPE to do so.

Justice for Viola Monty!
Mad Poster
#8 Old 4th Apr 2022 at 4:12 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Smefanye
This is a HIGHLY technical question, but I'm too busy thinking about this to sleep to here goes-
When discussing corruption, I often hear about how you shouldn't play as certain sims, namely certain types of NPCs, and the premade dead sims in the base game neighborhoods, because "they have incomplete character files." As a disclaimer, I'll take experts' words on this, and believe that it's indeed unsafe to play as those sims- but since they're called incomplete character files- what exactly is missing from the sim's character file? What data is say, a social worker missing, compared to a maid? And as a side note, would it be possible to manually add the missing data to these incomplete character files, to create a whole, safe to play character file?


If were talking about regular sims with names then it means at some point they were deleted and only there stub file remains.

If it is this case then you can also fix these files with SimPE then you can extract them and make them new and playable again, just like I did in my Beginning Hoods.
https://modthesims.info/download.php?t=521653


Resurrecting Sims with no character data: https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Game_g...ms_back_to_life
(((This will show you what is missing from there files.)))

All my Beginning Hoods here at MTS. http://www.modthesims.info/member.php?u=7749491
All my Beginning Hoods as Shopping Districts plus Old Town. http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=523417
MooVille, a tribute to Mootilda and her fabulous lots http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=534158
Mad Poster
#9 Old 4th Apr 2022 at 5:22 AM
I have no way of knowing what other people meant when they said these NPCs were incomplete, only what I see in SimPE looking at them now. If you want to know what was wrong with the original dead playables, I'm sure meetme knows, since she fixed them.
Alchemist
#10 Old 4th Apr 2022 at 3:51 PM
It might be that, for some npcs at least, their code just makes them hard to interact with under normal circumstances, and they do have a complete character file. That's the impression I received when I asked Chris Hatch about his summoners--some of them called social workers and drivers and I was concerned about interacting with them. That conversation started about here, for original context and Chris' answer to my question was:

Quote: Originally posted by Chris Hatch
Quote: Originally posted by Phantomknight
I wonder though; are the drivers and social worker okay to summon? I thought they were unsafe npcs? Or are they only unsafe if you add to the household, but they're okay to summon?

Yes, any sim that has a real character file is safe to interact with. When a social worker come's to your sim's home her entire action is pushed on her from her car, away from her car she is just a normal sim. Driver NPCs have no interaction options on their pie menu, therefore when the taxi or school bus sculpture bring one in it overrides their pie menu to enable them to be interacted/socialized with.


I can't give any more info/explanation than that--I'm a complete novice when it comes to this. But I do trust that Chris knows his stuff. He posts infrequently, though, so idk if you can expect more help/a response. But @Chris Hatch just in case.

"May the sunlight find you, thy days be long, thy winters kind, thy roots be strong." -Grand Oak Tree, DAO

XPTL Mod Archive | Change a Mod's Mesh into a CC Object | Increasing the Game Difficulty | Editing ACR 4 Your Age Mod
Bored? Read an unfinished legacy or sim story. | aka Kelyns | she/her
Mad Poster
#11 Old 4th Apr 2022 at 5:23 PM
I don't think there's any question about whether or not the Social Worker is safe to interact with. Relationships are stored in the neighborhood package anyway, so I don't think it's even a problem to interact with object NPCs, relationships with object NPCs are generated as a part of normal gameplay anyway. The question is whether or not you should move her in.
Mad Poster
#13 Old 4th Apr 2022 at 10:31 PM Last edited by Bigsimsfan12 : 5th Apr 2022 at 10:53 PM.
Just as a side note... the social worker is definitely not a safe NPC I learnt that the hard way when, in an old neighbourhood, a sim got her for a blind date.

I don't remember specifics but I remember having to close the game through task manager because build/buy, save etc were all unclickable as if she was taking a child away.

ETA: I stand corrected :P

~Your friendly neighborhood ginge
Mad Poster
#14 Old 4th Apr 2022 at 11:11 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 4th Apr 2022 at 11:22 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by Aspersim
The Sims 2 had some trouble in development, I heard their were power outages that led to the missing character files I assume


Probably more like corruption in their spreadsheets, and a very hurried development of the first neighborhoods (they originally planned for 5 for the BG, then went down to 1, then managed to scramble together 3 at the end), plus a lot of overlooked small details that you probably only notice by fine-combing the files (which I assume they didn't have time for when they had a ton of other things to do before their release deadline).

Can't remember which one spesifically mentions this, but these are from a Twitter (?) feed from one of the original TS2 developers (it was reposted at Tumblr as pictures, couldn't find those links, but this version is a bit easier to read anyway).

https://2fingerswhiskey.tumblr.com/...326177515339776
https://2fingerswhiskey.tumblr.com/...349040501719040
https://2fingerswhiskey.tumblr.com/...349051102822400
https://2fingerswhiskey.tumblr.com/...349060563156992

Not sure if all the rumors about the office fires/power outages and whatnots were confirmed to have happened, and if any were, if anything was actually lost (I assume they weren't complete dummies and just kept backups in just one server room, because that would've been stupid), but they did have enough issues while making the first two games (according to the developer they had to fight EA just to keep toilets ).
Mad Poster
#15 Old 5th Apr 2022 at 3:31 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Bigsimsfan12
Just as a side note... the social worker is definitely not a safe NPC I learnt that the hard way when, in an old neighbourhood, a sim got her for a blind date.

I don't remember specifics but I remember having to close the game through task manager because build/buy, save etc were all unclickable as if she was taking a child away.


Eh, you can reenable build and buy with the batbox, and plenty of people have dated the Social Worker successfully without even having to do that.
Mad Poster
#16 Old 5th Apr 2022 at 11:47 AM
Quote: Originally posted by kestrellyn
Eh, you can reenable build and buy with the batbox, and plenty of people have dated the Social Worker successfully without even having to do that.

Oh thats interesting. This was many moons before the batbox (or atleast before I discovered it) and was enough for me not to mess with her again I'm on the fence of whether I'd call that safe though. I mean presumably her presence is what disabled build/buy so reenabling them would have no effect on the game because outside of that she acted like a normal sim, but is she not part of the objects package? I have been under the impression any changed to the object package (such as moving her in) is unsafe?

~Your friendly neighborhood ginge
Forum Resident
#17 Old 5th Apr 2022 at 2:30 PM
The Social Worker is not part of the objects.package, she's created along with the other NPCs when the game needs one. You can tell the difference because the actual object NPCs like Grim Reaper always look the same in every neighborhood.

She is programmed to block build and buy mode though. I just created a fake Social Worker sim with the right outfit when I needed one to run an orphanage.
Mad Poster
#18 Old 5th Apr 2022 at 6:05 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Bigsimsfan12
Oh thats interesting. This was many moons before the batbox (or atleast before I discovered it) and was enough for me not to mess with her again I'm on the fence of whether I'd call that safe though. I mean presumably her presence is what disabled build/buy so reenabling them would have no effect on the game because outside of that she acted like a normal sim, but is she not part of the objects package? I have been under the impression any changed to the object package (such as moving her in) is unsafe?


No, her presence doesn't disable build and buy. If it did, you wouldn't be able to adopt children.
Mad Poster
#19 Old 5th Apr 2022 at 7:11 PM
Maybe what Ovenhole meant was that when the Worker shows up to take kids away, stuff is disabled, but not when Worker is BRINGING children.

Stand up, speak out. Just not to me..
Mad Poster
#20 Old 5th Apr 2022 at 8:00 PM
Quote: Originally posted by kestrellyn
No, her presence doesn't disable build and buy. If it did, you wouldn't be able to adopt children.

Maybe I'm wording it wrong, I didn't mean in normal gameplay. I meant specifically in that instance where I had her as a blind date sim. There were no other factors (fire, car driving, etc) that would have disabled build/buy, so I presume it was her presence on the lot.

Though also I don't understand what you mean when you say you wouldn't be able to adopt children? Because when you adopt and the social worker drops them off, build and buy is disabled (see: here @ 3:36) so could you explain further?

Quote: Originally posted by Ovenhole
The Social Worker is not part of the objects.package, she's created along with the other NPCs when the game needs one. You can tell the difference because the actual object NPCs like Grim Reaper always look the same in every neighborhood.

She is programmed to block build and buy mode though. I just created a fake Social Worker sim with the right outfit when I needed one to run an orphanage.

Ooh, I've always been under the assumption she was a universal NPC. I don't actually use the in-game adoption system and haven't for decades so I've always assumed they were the same in every hood, much like a social bunny where there's different variants? I've always read that as a rule of thumb to steer clear of sims without real names .

~Your friendly neighborhood ginge
Mad Poster
#21 Old 5th Apr 2022 at 11:34 PM
Hmm, I guess I never noticed that build and buy were disabled when adopting, but I guess it makes sense, since you're potentially creating a new sim. But I think it'd be pretty hard to disable build and buy based on the presence of an NPC on the lot versus the start and end of an action like kids getting taken away or brought to the house, so I'm not sure why they would do it that way. I have had them get disabled for no reason a few times, as well.
Theorist
#22 Old 6th Apr 2022 at 8:12 PM
I have a wild, unconfirmed theory. You know how there's this Bigfoot Bigfoot (NPC) character that serves as a template, and then all the playable bigfoots, like Alec Bigfoot, Alan Bigfoot etc. have appropriate names and are overall safe - what if there's this Social Worker (template) sim from which all the social workers are cloned, but with a mere exception that the cloned, safe workers didn't get the appropriate names (i.e. Jane Worker, Monica Worker)

Still doesn't quite explain why the controls get disabled...

Then again, there are NPCs with a completely normal looking name but very stubby character data, for example drivers. They're not objects, but still mess up the game.
Mad Poster
#23 Old 10th Apr 2022 at 3:26 AM
Quote: Originally posted by kestrellyn
Hmm, I guess I never noticed that build and buy were disabled when adopting, but I guess it makes sense, since you're potentially creating a new sim. But I think it'd be pretty hard to disable build and buy based on the presence of an NPC on the lot versus the start and end of an action like kids getting taken away or brought to the house, so I'm not sure why they would do it that way. I have had them get disabled for no reason a few times, as well.

====
The disabled stuff happens when pets are adopted, and other things? But why? Wish more people would chime in.

Stand up, speak out. Just not to me..
Instructor
#24 Old 10th Apr 2022 at 8:19 PM
Ive never had the build/buy disabled when i adopt pets only sims and i adopt ALOT of pets
Field Researcher
#25 Old 24th Apr 2022 at 10:13 PM
I've often assumed some incomplete character files for NPCs were just the result of players NOT being meant to use them that way. I don't know what's missing from the social worker voice file, for example, but they might be things that weren't recorded because they wouldn't be necessary.

For example, some NPCs have babies that just use a basic default face, presumably because the devs didn't mean for them to have kids and genetics for them were not a big priority.
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