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Test Subject
Original Poster
#1 Old 18th Sep 2022 at 8:59 PM
Default TS5 being multiplayer: yes or no?
As some of you know, there are rumors circulating around the web about TS5 being multiplayer for some time already. Nobody really knows though if TS5 is in production; there are only rumors about it being coded with Unreal engine and some other rumors. Here is a recent article that explains more into detail. An internet site called techradar also posted an article about TS5.

But this thread is more about the progression of the Sims series. Is the multiplayer option going to advance the Sims series in any way? Furthermore, will the multiplayer feature break the tradition of TS being a single-player game? Is TS5 going to be more like Second life, with an online store and avatars that resemble you in any way possible? What type of player are EA and Maxis targeting at with their new Sims title?

How will it be implemented? I worry that the multiplayer feature is going to cost us CAST and many other smaller features, Coding the multiplayer aspect of the game might take a drain on resources that could be invested into something else like family gameplay (TS5 should have more lifestages) or open world that is not laggy or buggy.

Is it going to be an option or a mandatory feature? I want it to be an option because the multiplayer feature might cost us many other features. That might not be the case, but I have a feeling like the multiplayer mode is going to be one of its main selling points.
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Scholar
#2 Old 19th Sep 2022 at 1:09 AM
I gave on multiplayer games a long time ago, it's just no fun having to be wary of scammers and account hackers
Alchemist
#3 Old 19th Sep 2022 at 2:48 AM
I will not even consider the game if solely multiplayer. EA has been told over and over the vast majority of its original core base of players, which includes me, totally does not want that. The switch mid stream is part of why we got Sims 4 as we did with no toddlers, unfinished teens, etc. The game was behind and then rushed out to meet a release deadline.

If mp is an option and not mandatory, and there is enough of interest without doing that I may consider. If 5 is IMO dumbed down even more than IMO 4 was to 3, and the target audience now the 10s, no disrespect to 10s LOL, no thanks. And if made to play on a piece of celery rather than even a potato.

I know is not to happen, but I want an upgrade from 3. But odds are that will not happen as I am not the target buyer now.
Smeg Head
#4 Old 19th Sep 2022 at 7:23 AM Last edited by coolspear1 : 19th Sep 2022 at 8:56 AM.
Modern Maxis are dead in the water. As incompetent as all out. I would be hesitant to purchase anything they put out there in the guise of a TS5. Most of us have already invested so much into TS4, knowing just how bad Maxis are with the stuff they put out. But we persevere, because we know at least what TS4 is, and more to the point, we know how much modders can turn TS4 stuff around. But I would simply not go through the same with a TS5. From the get go, it's the same Maxis who will continually do to a TS5 what they have done to TS4. No, no, no thank you. If it can be avoided from the start with zero investment, then that's where I'll be at in regards to latter day EA Maxis products. Lesson learned.

To be fair to Maxis, I just don't think the modern model works. Of running a game project for x number of years, putting out x number of addon dlcs, from minor kits to major EPs, all while regularly patching once a month for that x number of years the game runs. It is overwhelmingly evident that "monthly maintenance model" - all due to the ease of online access - is as likely to harm the product in the long run as it is in its attempt to keep it in good condition. The ease of online access has done a disservice to the final professionalism that was far more effective over a decade ago when there was no such online service and no "regular patching downloads." The current ideal that "whatever errors we find today we can simply fix in an online patch tomorrow" is a flat-on-its-face-failure, a falsehood. Certainly when in the wrong hands. Maxis' hands. As the unfolding eventuality is, in fact, a staggering mountain of errors that nobody is fixing at all. A staggering amount of errors mostly introduced through the ease of online regular patching. So before I would even think about investing in a new project from Maxis, rather than speculate on what a new iteration might be, I'd much rather hear about VAST improvements in their planned regular online maintenance, and even vaster improvements in the methods and speeds utilized in fixing erros "simply by tomorrow" as the online ideal would originally hope for. Until then, building another golden statue on such clay feet, I have no interest in at all.

In regard to multiplayer changes, it's inevitable. Players do want it. But equally as many do not. Mods are never going away for this game. Half the player base are not interested in a squeaky-clean, child-friendly version of the game, and like using certain mods and CC to make their games more adult. EA Maxis aren't going to throw all these players under a bus. So the inevitable multiplayer aspect will be an optional thing. That's all it ever can be for this franchise. Forcing multiplayer only, means only kids will be interested in the long run, and eventually probably not even kids. CC and mod creation will dry up due to the restrictions and limitations on a theme. It would be the death of the franchise. And I suspect playing in a multiplayer environment - true MMO-fashion - would have to be mod free, no mods or CC allowed. Though like many other games that have multiplayer functionality - though not MMOs - groups form who all have the same mods and CC, so they can all jump in and out of each others game worlds together, getting up to all sorts. Sure, I can see that coming for The Sims. So yeah, definitely an optional multiplayer, non-MMO type thing. Though how that will play out with the "anything can happen at any time" with all these human-controlled sims gathered in one place is quite daunting. Perhaps it will have to be turn-based interactions. Ouch. And you thought the Simulation Lag of TS4 was bad! Wait till you see twenty human-controlled sims each having to wait for their turn before they can do a damn thing over and over.

"Become a government informer. Betray your family and friends. Fabulous prizes to be won!" Red Dwarf - Back to Reality.

Find all my TS4 mods and lots here: Main Website - simsasylum.com My Section - coolspear's Mods & Lots
Just east of Lyra, northwest of Pegasus
retired moderator
#5 Old 19th Sep 2022 at 12:23 PM
I would love it if they could do something that was similar to the Simport feature (Sims 3 Showtime) for Sims 5. With that feature you could send one of your Sim performers in to other people's games. You could pick who (amongst your origin friends) were online, and send them an invitation. If they accepted then a copy of your sim would be sent to their game and your sim would be 'away' from your world (so you couldn't play them temporarily). Once your friend received your sim, he would turn up in their game as an NPC, and within a short amount of time put on a performance at a Showtime stage lot in your friend's world. Your friend's sims could go to see the performance. Shortly after, your sim would leave their world and be returned to yours, along with memories and experience of the performance they did. It was a lot of fun and I sent Sim Sample to do some juggling with several online friends and they posted images of these experiences on the forums we frequented. It had limitations, some mods broke the feature, and if you used custom content then of course that wouldn't travel with the sim, so the sim would look different in your friend's game unless they happened to have the same CC installed. But, it was a good use of the online capabilities of the game I thought, and was fun to do whilst being totally controlled by the players.
Something like that, which would add to the game (and sims') experience, which was totally controllable, but which would be unobtrusive and optional, would be great. Imagine being able to send your sim on a holiday to someone else's game, and have them come back with memories and postcards and photographs of that. Would be fun and add to the game I think, but of course it wouldn't work for something like Sims 4, where your average players all have the same worlds. Would be better for Sims 2 or 3 type games where custom worlds are easier to make.
Alchemist
#6 Old 19th Sep 2022 at 2:41 PM
Me and my best friend loved to play together on FreeSO, but it just didn't feel like enough, so I would personally love it

what does his name even mean?
Mad Poster
#7 Old 19th Sep 2022 at 5:53 PM
IMO, the only reason EA would want multi-player is to monetize the game further. Andrew Wilson doesn't know how many times a a year EPs are released for TS4, never mind the reason many people play sims to begin with; to get away from other people.

EA has already tried the whole social experiment with this franchise. Sims Online failed and yet here they are acting like they are re-inventing the wheel. SMH

Quote:
The Sims Online simulated a working economy. It was completely run by players. The largest and most active market in the game was real estate: players would buy, sell, and rent property to other players. However, due to not having a proper deed trade system in place until the start of EA-Land, many players faced security issues such as scamming.

There were many categories for player's properties: Welcome, Money, Skills, Services, Entertainment, Romance, Shopping, Games, Offbeat, and Residence. Each of these categories had special items that could only be used in that specific category. For example, players who joined a lot under the Service category could use a workbench to craft items, which would then often be sold to a player who owns a lot in the Shopping category who would sell the items at a higher retail price.

In early 2005, The Sims Online faced a bug, which was discovered and quickly spread in use throughout the game. A clothing rack, that normally players would use to sell clothes to other players, duplicated the owner's profits with each use beyond what the other player actually paid. This exploit could be repeated as often as wanted until the bug was fixed. This exploit was later patched; however, the game's economy was damaged. Land and items lost value. This economic problem was not resolved for three years, until late 2007 when EA-Land was formed and the game data was wiped.

Once EA-Land was in place, the economy was player-run. Players could additionally create custom content and sell these items to other players, and skills were a higher priority due to the requirement of in-game jobs and money objects.

In April 2008, four weeks after EA-Land was launched, it was announced that the development team had disassembled, and that the game would shut down on August 1 the same year. This day of announcement was referred to as the "EA-Land Sunset". Maxis stated that the development team would be moving on to other projects.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims_Online

A side note: There is also a rumor going around that Maxis will put out TS5 while keeping TS4 active so the games can 'co-exist'. I don't know who comes up with this stuff, but if Maxis can't deal with all of TS4 issues, what makes anybody think they'd be able to handle two games at the same time?
Instructor
#8 Old 19th Sep 2022 at 7:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casimir
Is TS5 going to be more like Second life?

I sincerely hope NOT! I was in SL for a while and all I can say is yikes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gargoyle Cat
IMO, the only reason EA would want multi-player is to monetize the game further.


Absolutely!!! That is the only reason they would make more iterations of this game! Complete w/an unfinished game w/poor programming!

ON a side note, I used to play another disk driven game and when the company who owned it wanted to sell to EA, most of the players said "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!! EA will just ruin it!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gargoyle Cat
EA has already tried the whole social experiment with this franchise. Sims Online failed and yet here they are acting like they are re-inventing the wheel. SMH


The primary reason TSO failed was not only the bugs, but that they refused to allow cc until the end. By then, it was too late; most of the people had already left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gargoyle Cat
A side note: There is also a rumor going around that Maxis will put out TS5 while keeping TS4 active so the games can 'co-exist'. I don't know who comes up with this stuff, but if Maxis can't deal with all of TS4 issues, what makes anybody think they'd be able to handle two games at the same time?


I'm w/you on that. There is no way that they'll continue to fix TS4's problems once #5 is out. Wishful thinking on the person's part who started that? Maybe.
Mad Poster
#9 Old 19th Sep 2022 at 7:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonshine

I'm w/you on that. There is no way that they'll continue to fix TS4's problems once #5 is out. Wishful thinking on the person's part who started that? Maybe.


You're right. They didn't fix the problems with TS2 when TS3 came out. Then they didn't fix the problems with TS3 when TS4 came out. Unlike the transition from TS2 to TS3 though, they spent 2 years crapping on their own work for TS3 when TS4 was released.

I don't know why people are saying that Maxis will keep TS4 ( under development/ fixing/ updating) and TS5 ( if there is going to be one) running in tandem. I would think people would still be able to play TS4 as it isn't likely EA would shut those servers down right away, but it wouldn't be updated anymore. Since the base game is going free to play next month, I'm wondering how much time and effort is going to go into fixing things, updating, ect... for TS4 as it is. Their list of fixes have been really slim for awhile now. Regardless, considering all the other weird gossip that is spread around on a regular basis, maybe people are claiming that TS4 will no longer be available should there be a TS5. I have no idea, I'm guessing.

The other part of it is people are constantly talking about how much money they've spent on TS4. I get that, but at the same time, nobody was forced to buy all the stuff either. Just because there are 57 DLC ( 59 if you count the 2 free ones. The new kit won't be free anymore after Oct 17) doesn't mean people have to buy them. Just like the TS3 nobody has to buy all the packs and the game is fine without all the junk from the TS3 store.
Instructor
#10 Old 19th Sep 2022 at 8:07 PM
I highly doubt that they'll close down TS4 when 5 comes out. At least they've never done that in the past. I'm not a huge fan of TS4 and MUCH prefer #3, but EA would probably still make some money out of #4. I really hate to think of what they'll do w/#5 though! #4 is totally splintered compared to #2 and #3! What used to be included in ONE expansion is now splintered into 3 or 4 expansions, each of them costing! No ty!
Top Secret Researcher
#11 Old 21st Sep 2022 at 12:23 AM
I have no problem with multiplayer in some genres - grand strategy, for example - but I have no interest in it in my sims games. If its a prominent aspect, 5 will be a hard no here.

I'm probably a no if it's not at least attempting to either be an up-to-date 2, or an improved 3. I doubt I'm going to be interested, because I don't see the franchise headed in any direction in which I would wish to go.
Instructor
#12 Old 21st Sep 2022 at 3:44 AM
If Sims 5 will be online-multiplayer-only then it's as good as dead to me. That might sound bit overly dramatic but I enjoy Sims purely alone. What would you even do in online Sims? Have your characters stand/sit together and chat? Watch them loop some same animation over and over again while you grind skills together? Watch them disappear into rabbit hole to earn money for 8 real time hours? I just don't see any appeal in that, I could already do that in Second Life if I wanted to.
Field Researcher
#13 Old 21st Sep 2022 at 4:31 AM
Even if I wanted TS5, where I'm living now, my internet connection is so iffy that I probably wouldn't be able to stay online long enough to successfully play it. And I'm definitely not moving just to play something by Maxis/EA with the reputation that they have recently garnered.

A man cannot be comfortable without his own approval. - Mark Twain
Mad Poster
#14 Old 21st Sep 2022 at 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmanic
If Sims 5 will be online-multiplayer-only then it's as good as dead to me. That might sound bit overly dramatic but I enjoy Sims purely alone. What would you even do in online Sims? Have your characters stand/sit together and chat? Watch them loop some same animation over and over again while you grind skills together? Watch them disappear into rabbit hole to earn money for 8 real time hours?

Isn't that exactly what you do in single player to get appeal of? It doesn't have to be real hours and players could build together, much like in minecraft if you got a friend that collaborates..

In a way, I have ideas or vision how not mandatory multiplayer could work. But I'll leave that for later.

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
Mad Poster
#15 Old 21st Sep 2022 at 3:05 PM
I posted repeated about this before, but I cannot see a non-online TS5 or any independent CC community, especially following the drama from paid content.

The way I see it if we follow EA's intentions and extrapolate them:
- TS5 will have an online and non-online component.
- Non-online plays similarly to the traditional Sims games
- Online is essentially some sort of social meeting space like Playstation Home and Second Life + the TS4 Galleries.
- You'd bring over a maximum of a household at a time to interact with other players' households in realtime.
- Online will also contain a custom content marketplace, and the only route in which you can install CC, like in Second Life or Roblox.
- This marketplace is monetized, with a share of profits given to creators to ensure they stay on the platform.
- The online component has regular events and minigames that you can play to earn money to buy CC, or you can directly buy CC with real money.
- Modding of the game mechanics will still be done via the traditional route externally if allowed, no mods are allowed in the Online component of the game under bannable consequences.
Mad Poster
#16 Old 21st Sep 2022 at 3:55 PM
Sims 5 having an online component like GTA V would be neat, I guess. Not something I see myself playing often. But it'd be a neat thing to try. Going completely online though? Absolutely not. The Sims is not IMVU and it shouldn't try to be. That would be a surefire way to guarantee that I don't buy the game.

The Receptacle still lives!
Alchemist
#17 Old 22nd Sep 2022 at 12:30 AM
And if no ability to do our own worlds again, that will be huge factor in a pass for me. And also if no CASt again. But if placing a bet, I will guess will go even more backwards from the apex days of 2 and 3.
Smeg Head
#18 Old 22nd Sep 2022 at 3:17 AM Last edited by coolspear1 : 22nd Sep 2022 at 3:32 AM.
I was watching a Youtube vid a few days back, and a bunch of 5 or so Youtubers, James Turner and Co were playing TS4 with the Multiplayer mod. They were doing a night and day at high school as a bunch of teen sims who live together. Enjoyable, and funny, but therein lies the problem. Funny for all the wrong reasons. Because TS4 is so glitchy, and gameplay in general. - aside from glitches - is just too quirky, even for a bunch of human-controlled sims, it was actually a poor advertisement for multiplayer play. Because, laugh-out-loud funny as it was, you would not want that chaos as the constant. That would be a game-killer for anyone over eight years old. I know it was only TS4 and the Youtubers were having a giggle together anyway regardless, but if it is close to a mirror of what TS5 might officially be as a multiplayer, then no,no, no. Too asinine, too overbearing, too silly. Good for a quick laugh together, bad for long term "serious" game play. After all, the mod they used only opens access to the online multiplayer mechanic Maxis built into TS4, a feature the game almost shipped with nine years ago! So how different could a TS5 version be if it ships with multiplayer features? I don't think it would be that different. So then how different of a game must TS5 be from TS4, so as not to descend into the same asinine chaos during multiplayer play? That's the real question. Not if it will be multiplayer. But how good, or poor will it be in comparison to TS4 as that almost was officially online multiplayer, and actually is unofficially if you use the mod to access it.

"Become a government informer. Betray your family and friends. Fabulous prizes to be won!" Red Dwarf - Back to Reality.

Find all my TS4 mods and lots here: Main Website - simsasylum.com My Section - coolspear's Mods & Lots
Lab Assistant
#19 Old 23rd Sep 2022 at 7:20 AM
If The Sims 5 truly is sporting multiplayer, then I'm going to grab my rifle and put it out of its misery. Multiplayer for The Sims is like modding single-player focused games to bring friends along for memes. It's never meant to be anything done seriously, because you know the game isn't built for it. And here in lies the problem. The Sims was never built for multiplayer, even if you make a sequel with that in mind. It's like Skyrim - multiplayer is hilarious because of glitches and bugs, but the moment you want to start actually playing the game and get yourself immersed, you start hating your friends.

Maxis that we all knew died long ago. They would never have seen The Sims get to the sorry state that it's in today. All I see whenever content is uploaded on the official channels is management meddling by EA leashed by their uncaring shareholders.

Eternally skipping life's jump rope.
Mad Poster
#20 Old 23rd Sep 2022 at 12:26 PM
If nothing else, these conversations about TS5 have been keeping trolls busy. TS5 is coming out next month? Sure it is.

The trolling isn't without some comedy. Free range babies? Are they going to creep around, scratching for worms and bugs?

NEW SIMS 5 "LEAK" = BAD NEWS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SIzgjVHd5U
Alchemist
#21 Old 23rd Sep 2022 at 6:10 PM
Hmmmm, if multi player is an option and not mandatory, that is good. Competition, no thanks vs. other players, but if goals for me to set OK which probably is not. Open world and better CAS. Good. I still would want a CAW. Will have to see how much actually happens to consider more.
Instructor
#22 Old 24th Sep 2022 at 3:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakyWingPhoenix
Isn't that exactly what you do in single player to get appeal of? It doesn't have to be real hours and players could build together, much like in minecraft if you got a friend that collaborates..

Well... no, not for me at least. I play out stories I write in my head and watch it all crumble down due the game's hilariously bad AI then try to incorporate whatever random/awful happened in the storyline and so on. Fun for me but nobody else would enjoy it and I wouldn't enjoy someone inserting their characters in it either. I also use a lot of adult content in my game which is actually another thing that would be autobanned if the game is online multiplayer one. No way EA would allow modding any adult content in the game or even skins with *gasp* nipples in them. I can't even get excited over the idea of building together since I hate building. Decorating's nice sure, but EA would likely make every piece of furniture cost real money or something else crappy to put me off even that. I mean, does somebody seriously think they wouldn't monetize every aspect of it? You want house in the world? That'll be $XX. You want to decorate it? Sure but each piece of furniture costs $XX. Oh you want to change your Sims hair/clothes/shoes/accessories? That'll be $XX! You want to add another sim in the world? $XX thanks! Trying to level up a skill? You can do it faster by paying $X! And so on. I just don't see how any of this could turn out as a nice thing.
Mad Poster
#23 Old 24th Sep 2022 at 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxmanic
Well... no, not for me at least. I play out stories I write in my head and watch it all crumble down due the game's hilariously bad AI then try to incorporate whatever random/awful happened in the storyline and so on. Fun for me but nobody else would enjoy it and I wouldn't enjoy someone inserting their characters in it either. I also use a lot of adult content in my game which is actually another thing that would be autobanned if the game is online multiplayer one. No way EA would allow modding any adult content in the game or even skins with *gasp* nipples in them. I can't even get excited over the idea of building together since I hate building. Decorating's nice sure, but EA would likely make every piece of furniture cost real money or something else crappy to put me off even that. I mean, does somebody seriously think they wouldn't monetize every aspect of it? You want house in the world? That'll be $XX. You want to decorate it? Sure but each piece of furniture costs $XX. Oh you want to change your Sims hair/clothes/shoes/accessories? That'll be $XX! You want to add another sim in the world? $XX thanks! Trying to level up a skill? You can do it faster by paying $X! And so on. I just don't see how any of this could turn out as a nice thing.


The following interview with Lyndsay Pearson ( Vice prez of Maxis and the person that thought Journey to Batuu was a good idea...) is not some type of crystal ball, but it does give a glimmer into what Maxis is thinking about. What is quoted is only a paragraph of said article...

Quote:
To make those versions of The Sims a reality, she says that the team would have to focus on making the UX be more flexible between mouse/keyboard and touch controls.

Pearson shared that while most Sims players are on PC, there's a growing group who are "adding" playing The Sims on their phone to their routines. Players might play both The Sims 4 and The Sims Mobile. "We know younger audiences are tending toward their phones, which means they will grow into audiences who will probably still 'multiscreen,' she said. Meaning that more Sims players in the future will likely have their phones on while interacting with the game on PC or console.


https://www.gamedeveloper.com/pc/ly...ment-challenges

I take a couple of things away from this:

Everything is being catered to a younger audience. No surprise here; we've known this all along.

Since they are leaning on younger players to support this franchise, they won't be adding in adult content.

Of course they want people to play on PC and Sims Mobile. The more time people spend with a game in their face, the more likely they are to spend money on it. A younger audience will see this tactic as Maxis somehow doing them a favor. For those of us that have been with this franchise a long time and are not naive to EA's nonsense, we know this is nothing more than MOAR cash-grabbin'. EA wants to live in peoples' wallets 24/7.

I've been saying for awhile now that TS4 players are being nudged into Sims Mobile under a different name. That thought started with kits. Kits were only supposed to be filler, once-in-awhile content. It has been just over a year since kits were introduced; there's 15 of them. People like to talk about how kits are cheap so they can have them all. I don't consider $75.00, cheap.

Sims Mobile doesn't have 'kits', but it does have 'bundles' of stuff people can purchase. The last time I did the math for these 'bundles' being sold over the course of a month, the total came out to be somewhere around $90.00 give or take a few dollars. Sims Mobile also doesn't have scenarios like TS4, they have events. These events also cost money as Sims Mobile is a "free to play" game. If a player wants to purchase a lot to build on with Sims Mobile, it will cost the person $10.00. If somebody wants a recolor of something, said person will have to pay for the thing they want, then pay extra for the recolor.

One would think with all this money being thrown at Maxis for a 'free game', Sims Mobile would be in tip-top shape and have few problems with bugs. Nah, it's just as much of a hot mess when it comes to bugs as TS4 is.

Will TS4 become Sims Mobile? Probably not, at least not a apples to apples comparison kind of way. I do think TS4 players will continue to be nudged in that direction though.
Field Researcher
#24 Old 25th Sep 2022 at 5:53 AM
I suppose there's still a lot of life left in Sims 4 - IF Maxis/EA fix all the bugs and whatever else wrong AND update all the packs like they did Spa Day. They say they still plan to release more content and stuff - but for all intents and purposes, TS4 ain't going nowhere else, and will simply degenerate in time. And maybe that's the plan - to allow TS4 to continue so low that the true lovers will salivate at grabbing Sims 5. Maybe the plan is to do an Ad/Marketing campaign "update your Sims experience by joining The Sims 5 community!" And thus make another killing. Surely Maxis will abandon Sims 4 once Sims 5 is released because how can they concentrate on both - especially considering how much attention they're giving Sims 4 all by itself right now?! All their attention will have to go to 5.

In the end, it's all fun, games and money anyway.

A man cannot be comfortable without his own approval. - Mark Twain
Scholar
#25 Old 25th Sep 2022 at 4:21 PM
Well, it seems clear that the Sims by EA as we know it is over. 4 won't be playable if they pile more stuff and bugs and broken content onto a 8 years old game for another year or two and it's certainly not a multiplayer game. At least not how I like to play it.
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