Replies: 3 (Who?), Viewed: 189 times.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#1 Old 23rd Oct 2022 at 9:16 PM
Default Question for modders, etc - what does "effective_skill_modifier" do?
I'm trying to create a comprehensive guide to occult mechanics, starting with werewolves since they have the least thorough guides so far (as the newest occult). I've used TS4 Studio to extract a bunch of tuning files and read them with Notepad++. The tuning files for Transformation Mastery and several moon phases mentions this variable, and I can't find documentation that explains what it really... does, and how it's different from a stat use multiplier (which I can pretty easily intuit just from the name).
In the buff tuning file for transformation mastery:
Code:
       <V t="effective_skill_modifier">
         <U n="effective_skill_modifier">
          <V n="modifier_key" t="skill_tag">
            <E n="skill_tag">Skill_All</E>
          </V>
          <T n="modifier_value">2</T>

In the buff tuning files for... the first quarter moon, the full moon, the new moon and the third quarter moon. (Werewolves getting Fishing skill improvements isn't mentioned anywhere in-game that I know of??? I have no earthly idea what this is about and if it's even doing anything.)
Code:
      <V t="effective_skill_modifier">
        <U n="effective_skill_modifier">
          <V n="modifier_key" t="skill_type">
            <T n="skill_type">39397<!--statistic_Skill_AdultMajor_Fishing--></T>
          </V>
          <T n="modifier_value">5</T>

In the buff tuning file for the waning gibbous ( note how both a stat use multiplier and an effective skill modifier for the same skill are present here):
Code:
  <U n="game_effect_modifier">
    <L n="_game_effect_modifiers">
      <V t="autonomy_modifier">
        <U n="autonomy_modifier">
          <L n="stat_use_multiplier">
            <U>
              <T n="key">16704<!--statistic_Skill_AdultMajor_Handiness--></T>
              <U n="value">
                <E n="apply_direction">INCREASE</E>
                <T n="multiplier">2.5</T>
              </U>
            </U>
          </L>
        </U>
      </V>
      <V t="effective_skill_modifier">
        <U n="effective_skill_modifier">
          <V n="modifier_key" t="skill_type">
            <T n="skill_type">16704<!--statistic_Skill_AdultMajor_Handiness--></T>
          </V>
          <T n="modifier_value">7</T>
        </U>
      </V>
    </L>
  </U>

So yea. Just... I would love to understand how this value modifies the skills in question, because I'm not sure how. Is it additive, multiplicative? Is it setting some kind of floor for the minimum level the sim performs the skill at, regardless of current actual skill level? I've tried googling, looking up answers on reddit, etc. and found nothing.
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Lab Assistant
#2 Old 24th Oct 2022 at 7:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantSimmer
I'm trying to create a comprehensive guide to occult mechanics, starting with werewolves since they have the least thorough guides so far (as the newest occult). I've used TS4 Studio to extract a bunch of tuning files and read them with Notepad++. The tuning files for Transformation Mastery and several moon phases mentions this variable, and I can't find documentation that explains what it really... does, and how it's different from a stat use multiplier (which I can pretty easily intuit just from the name).
In the buff tuning file for transformation mastery:
Code:
       <V t="effective_skill_modifier">
         <U n="effective_skill_modifier">
          <V n="modifier_key" t="skill_tag">
            <E n="skill_tag">Skill_All</E>
          </V>
          <T n="modifier_value">2</T>

In the buff tuning files for... the first quarter moon, the full moon, the new moon and the third quarter moon. (Werewolves getting Fishing skill improvements isn't mentioned anywhere in-game that I know of??? I have no earthly idea what this is about and if it's even doing anything.)
Code:
      <V t="effective_skill_modifier">
        <U n="effective_skill_modifier">
          <V n="modifier_key" t="skill_type">
            <T n="skill_type">39397<!--statistic_Skill_AdultMajor_Fishing--></T>
          </V>
          <T n="modifier_value">5</T>

In the buff tuning file for the waning gibbous ( note how both a stat use multiplier and an effective skill modifier for the same skill are present here):
Code:
  <U n="game_effect_modifier">
    <L n="_game_effect_modifiers">
      <V t="autonomy_modifier">
        <U n="autonomy_modifier">
          <L n="stat_use_multiplier">
            <U>
              <T n="key">16704<!--statistic_Skill_AdultMajor_Handiness--></T>
              <U n="value">
                <E n="apply_direction">INCREASE</E>
                <T n="multiplier">2.5</T>
              </U>
            </U>
          </L>
        </U>
      </V>
      <V t="effective_skill_modifier">
        <U n="effective_skill_modifier">
          <V n="modifier_key" t="skill_type">
            <T n="skill_type">16704<!--statistic_Skill_AdultMajor_Handiness--></T>
          </V>
          <T n="modifier_value">7</T>
        </U>
      </V>
    </L>
  </U>

So yea. Just... I would love to understand how this value modifies the skills in question, because I'm not sure how. Is it additive, multiplicative? Is it setting some kind of floor for the minimum level the sim performs the skill at, regardless of current actual skill level? I've tried googling, looking up answers on reddit, etc. and found nothing.

Assuming it hasn't changed, effective skill level is used for skill tests and calculating rewards/bonuses, without modifiers actual skill level and effective skill level are the same but you can get buffs that increase the effective skill level giving you better bonuses, effective skill level can go beyond level 10.
Test Subject
Original Poster
#3 Old 24th Oct 2022 at 8:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by denton47
Assuming it hasn't changed, effective skill level is used for skill tests and calculating rewards/bonuses, without modifiers actual skill level and effective skill level are the same but you can get buffs that increase the effective skill level giving you better bonuses, effective skill level can go beyond level 10.


Thank you so much! Sorry if this is a stupid question, but... what kind of things fall under "skill tests" and "rewards/bonuses" here?

I ask because one of the things that was confusing me was how the description for the Transformation Mastery moodlet is this:
Code:
<!--{0.SimFirstName} has mastered the ability to stay comfortably in {M0.his}{F0.her} beastly form. In this form, Werewolf Experience and Skill gains are increased, but Fury gains are increased as well. --></T>


In Transformation Mastery's buff tuning, rankedStatistic_Werewolf_Progression is handled by a 1.5 stat_use_multiplier:
Code:
      <V t="effective_skill_modifier">
        <U n="effective_skill_modifier">
          <V n="modifier_key" t="skill_tag">
            <E n="skill_tag">Skill_All</E>
          </V>          
          <T n="modifier_value">2</T>
        </U>
      </V>

but in the same piece of buff tuning, Skill_All is being handled by an effective_skill_modifier of 2, not a stat_use_multiplier.
Code:
      <V t="autonomy_modifier">
        <U n="autonomy_modifier">
          <L n="stat_use_multiplier">
            <U>
              <T n="key">276388<!--rankedStatistic_Werewolf_Progression--></T>
              <U n="value">
                <E n="apply_direction">INCREASE</E>
                <T n="multiplier">1.5</T>
              </U>
            </U>
          </L>
        </U>
      </V>

Which is a big part of why I was confused (and to some extent, still am). Is the in-game description here just... misleading?
Lab Assistant
#4 Old 27th Oct 2022 at 6:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantSimmer
Thank you so much! Sorry if this is a stupid question, but... what kind of things fall under "skill tests" and "rewards/bonuses" here?

I think effective skill level is always used unless specified, this test is from Painting,
Code:
    <V t="enabled" n="masterworks">
      <U n="enabled">
        <T n="base_chance">0.1</T>
        <L n="base_test">
          <L>
            <V t="skill_test">
              <U n="skill_test">
                <T n="skill">16708<!--Skill: statistic_Skill_AdultMajor_Painting--></T>
                <V t="threshold" n="skill_range">
                  <U n="threshold">
                    <U n="skill_threshold">
                      <T n="value">7</T>
                    </U>
                  </U>
                </V>
                <T n="use_effective_skill_level">False</T>
              </U>
            </V>
          </L>
        </L>

This Simoleon value calculation is from Cooking, x is the effective skill level and y is the value multiplier in this case,
Code:
    <V t="enabled" n="simoleon_value_skill_curve">
      <U n="enabled">
        <V t="value_curve" n="multiplier">
          <L n="value_curve">
            <U>
              <T n="y">0.5</T>
            </U>
            <U>
              <T n="x">1</T>
              <T n="y">0.8</T>
            </U>
            <U>
              <T n="x">3</T>
              <T n="y">1</T>
            </U>
            <U>
              <T n="x">5</T>
              <T n="y">1.5</T>
            </U>
            <U>
              <T n="x">10</T>
              <T n="y">2</T>
            </U>
            <U>
              <T n="x">15</T>
              <T n="y">3</T>
            </U>
          </L>
        </V>
        <T n="statistic">16705<!--Skill: statistic_Skill_AdultMajor_HomestyleCooking--></T>
      </U>
    </V>

This is from Fishing to calculate the fish weight,
Code:
  <L n="skill_weight_curve">
    <U>
      <T n="x">1</T>
      <T n="y">2.5</T>
    </U>
    <U>
      <T n="x">10</T>
      <T n="y">12</T>
    </U>
    <U>
      <T n="x">20</T>
      <T n="y">18</T>
    </U>
  </L>

Statistics are normally used to track progression, most of them have a value from 0 to 100, their tuning are found in the statistic folder. With ranked statistics you start at rank 1 and "level up" once the progress is completed, like the Werewolf progression you mentioned.
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