Back in the days when I was playing vanilla, one of my sims married a female firefighter. There was a fire in the kitchen, everysim freaked out but my former firefighter autonomously extinguished the flames.

That's true. After my witch was jilted, he fell in love and married a burglar. I always thought it was hilarious that the new spouse had a sneak walk option!

And here's my random question: Has anyone ever had townies fall in love with each other?

The burglar I married in came with a restored Free Time car that he had stolen as well, nothing else mind you, perhaps they only keep the very last thing stolen. I loved his sneak walk option. I married in a cow recently, she has kept her costume and randomly enters peoples homes. Not so sure I am liking that though.

I,ve read that cow mascotts and cheerleaders were awefully annoying to marry..so guess what? I never tried.

I'll keep that into consideration when I have an annoying college sim.

To me, the most annoying thing about marrying mascots/cheerleaders is that, unmodded, they'll always wear their mascot/cheerleader outfit when off their home lot, no matter how you set their outfits, until they turn elder. Pescado's noadultmascots mod fixes this, however. The cow mascot personality might be annoying to some because they have 10 Outgoing and 10 Playful points but no other points. Mean, playful, and outgoing means lots of pranks and annoying other people...which, personally, I like, but of course YMMV. They're also slobby, which some people find annoying. All the mascots/cheerleaders have 10 Outgoing points, IIRC, so they are candidates to barge into other people's houses uninvited (Like they did as mascots, too), but, again, that's a personal preference thing as to whether or not that's annoying. (It's another thing that amuses me, personally. ) Like all college Sims, they can do the cheer autonomously, but they don't seem especially inclined to do so once made playable, so far as I've seen. So...Yeah, that's all I can think of.

I will go looking for that mod, thanks iCad. She is a pretty sim with colourful hair and clothes and I dislike her turning up looking like a cow, even if she is a 'cow'.

Do you know where that mod is? I looked through the mod directory and don't see it.

Hmmmm, maybe it wasn't a Pescado mod. Lemme look and I'll edit this...

Yep, wasn't Pes, it was Squinge. Sorry about that! It's here: http://www.insimenator.org/index.php/topic,10546.0.html The EP2-EP3 one works fine in my game, although since I've had it I've only married in a llama mascot. Can't imagine it'd be different for a cow mascot, though.

Rippa.

Does having non-package files (images, text files, etc) in the Downloads folder increase loading time? This is one of those things I know I used to know, but...

Yes it does. I could not be without my pictures though.

Indeed. Even if the files is not useful to the game, it still needs to be read, in order for the game to *make* that determination. And that takes time!

I've never had one marry a cheerleader, but the mascots are okay. The annoying thing is that they want to constantly change back into their mascot heads. Hey EA, that was such a great bit of coding there. Want to tell me WHY you decided to give them the "ever head"?

And thanks for the advice about the golden anniversary party. I don't know why I thought it required a cake.

I actually went and looked to see if I could find that old post of yours and respond there, smorbie1, especially in case someone else had made the suggestions I'm about to. But I didn't see it easily. So here goes...

I agree with Annaminna that it must be deep enough. You do not necessarily have to see fish in the pond, although it is much easier to find a spot if you can. In this apartment lot that I have had for some time (I quite love it in game; its pics do not do it justice), both tiny ponds are very shallow and do not show fish. But each has one or two fishing spots that are used regularly by my sims. And yes, they catch fish. I have the same occur with a small residential pond that I built.

One problem with residential fishing ponds, or any commercial-lot pond that's been used for a while (ETA: a while during the same visit), is that the fishing spots get stuck in use even if the sims are gone. Pescado's batbox has an option to Nuke>Lost Fishing Spots that only shows up when it sees any, and in my experience, it works perfectly. Suddenly you will get fishing spots again where you were temporarily seeing none.

So although the "must see fish" thing is a little bit of a myth, it's a myth that has some basis. Any pond too shallow to show fish will have many fewer spots in the first place than a pond that does show fish, and if one doesn't realize that lost fishing spots can be recovered, then all the spots can quickly disappear, seemingly for good.

I have a folder on my desktop called : Hair Pics. So all my pics that were included in the hair zip I downloaded, will end up there. if need be, I'll rename the pictures, to fit the game mesh etc.
This is convenient, and out of my game files.

I do something similar! Ever since I discovered, well before getting the UC, how major of a difference it makes for the game to only have .package files in Downloads, all cc pictures and documentation go elsewhere than the game folders. But I like that, because it has the very useful side effect of essentially giving me a well-documented backup of my Downloads elsewhere (in my case, a location that is automatically backed up remotely), which is great in case I ever have to restore or change machines again.

Yes! Oh and you are reminding me that, I also have a folder called : Mod Description. In which I'll keep all the read-me files. hehe

Is there a similar thread to this for Sims 4 or Sims 3?

Yes. You'll find them in their sections (Click "Discussions" at the top of the page to get to the other game sections).

Would taking a bird and/or fishtank to college via inventory cause any problems?

Nope. They're just objects.

I think it's ownership tags that are most likely to cause problems in inventory, so beds and cars are contraindicated.

Awesome! Thanks.

I guess I'll have to remove the pictures I have in my DL folder. The only I'm doing is removing spaces and odd characters from the files thanks to Bulk rename.

And that is smart, too! The game does better without those.

As far as removing pictures from your Downloads folder, I don't know. I mean, I stripped down my Downloads to only .package files, as I said, but for me, load times are very important---especially because I like to run tests and sometimes that requires shutting down the game and taking out or putting in some cc, then deleting the caches and starting back up...and then doing all that again after a little more play. So I have good reason to prefer a game that loads fast.

Yet I can understand why people keep pictures and even hack documentation in their Downloads---it keeps everything in one place. So I would guess it depends on what you feel is most important, a choice that has pro and con but not really right or wrong. (ETA: Because it's not a corruption danger for games or hoods either way. Just more, sometimes much more, for your system to handle while loading and running the game when you choose to have documentation and pics in with .package files.)

I know some people keep a copy of their downloads folder elsewhere, and only have the pictures and text files in the copy outside of game files. It does mean adding everything new twice, one to your real downloads and once to the spare-copy, but then you can have all your pictures and stuff for organization without it slowing down your game

Default Replacement Face Templates
 

Just a quick question.

I've just installed SleepyTabby's * Subtlety * Default Face Templates and Argon's Archfix (which I believe fixes the broken templates). Am I right in believing that both of these only affect new Sims created or generated from now onwards? As I understand it, all Sims made in CAS or Body Shop from now on, or NPCs and Townies generated by the game will use SleepyTabby's templates, but it won't affect the appearance or the genetics of any of my existing Sims. And conversely, if after a year or so, I feel that my Sims are getting too bland, I can pull the Default Replacement templates, and my game will revert to using Maxis face templates for new Sims. But again, removing the default replacements won't affect any Sims created during the time they were in place.

Similarly, as I understand it, Argon's Archfix will fix the broken templates in any Sims created while the fix is in place, but it won't fix the generics of existing Sims. They and their genetic descendants will still have broken faces that are likely to change when they age up.

Normally I'm not a fan of Default Replacements, because I don't want to change the appearance of my Sims, but I understand that face templates are only used when creating new Sims.

Can any one tell me that I am correct in my assumptions?

The assumption about SleepyTabby's replacements is correct. Faces are not like eyes or skin, once made they are stuck. Makes sense, since we can edit them after we pick our base. Whatever templates you have only affect Sims created when those templates were in, no changes to previously made Sims.

No idea about Argon's fix, though.

Thanks gummilutt! I'm pretty sure Peni said that Argon's fix doesn't work for existing Sims or their descendants in a recent thread about face templates. I'm not even sure if I need it with SleepyTabby's replacements. I'd ask her, but she's not around the forum nearly as much as she was a few months ago.

So....this is probably really going to make me sound like a noob, but I've never actually had sims break up before.... Do they ever scroll wants to break up? Or am I just supposed to decide for them that they're really done? I've got two sims who are currently completely furious with each other because the husband caught the wife cheating when she blatantly flirted with her boyfriend literally right in front of him (she initiated the flirt, so I can't even "blame" the boyfriend), and the husband slapped the wife's face - and then she turned around and made out with the boyfriend as her husband was walking away (thinking about how hot she was, lol). (This happened on a community lot when I was controlling an unrelated sim.) I have no interest in repairing the relationship, but I'm a little at a loss about how to properly break them up - I'm generally the type of player who doesn't make my sims do much unless they want to do it.

I don't know if it's with a mod that I've done it with, but I've have the option to "break up" appear in the game-where either of the pixels is furious with the other..and it has to be below the threshold of reuniting. Usually they cement the break up with fighting one another constantly so both of them are ticked off enough to make it work. By that time, the player will also be tired of it so the option will look very appealing.

Because otherwise the situation will be one of "She/he left me! What did I do to get them to leave?", and broken hearts all over the place.

@FranH, the option is there, but I guess I'm just hoping one (or both!) will scroll on a want to break up. But if that's just not a thing that happens...? I mean, sims will want to get married and they'll want to cheat on each other...but they won't ever want to break up?

I don't recall ever seeing anything like that when poking around in SimPE, so I'm guessing it's up to the players' discretion. Might be remembering wrong.

Question: Can servos safely clean fishtanks?

@ihatemandatoryregister, thanks! I guess I'll just have to go ahead and break them up then.

It's actually really funny, because even with all this, they're both currently still in Platinum mood. :P

I know that at least Inge made a mod to make break-ups easier accessible, even when neither of them is furious. Others may have done other versions of such mods as well.



Would you believe that I actually don't know? I mean: some sims *do* get positive memories about breaking up with someone with whom they had a bad relationship. So one would assume that if only the relationship stinks enough, they might in fact roll the want to break up, as well. But I do not for sure remember that any of my sims ever rolled such a want. So this may be something that rests squarely on the player's conscience.

Yeah, it doesn't work for existing Sims. Maybe you could try the plastic surgery reward (or mods) to see if it you can update their face? I'm not sure it'd work, though.

I've never seen the "want" to break up, because I don't think it exists in the game-the mod (as BO correctly acknowledges) does only list the option to do so, but there is nothing in game that encourages the break up. It's up to the individual to do so, but the game is acknowledging that the relationship is really on the brink of dissolving, at least for one (if not both) partner. Such a moral quandary-because as has been noted, there is a positive memory that can be generated when it is done. "Hey, I'm better off without that loser!" (or something like that)

It's as if the game itself is giving the player the option to change the emotional landscape by giving it back to the player..."Hey, if you really wanna do this, here it is.."

According to SimPE, there is a want to "break up" (actually two, probably because the game distinguishes between wedding and joint union). It's worth 2500/1250 aspiration points respectively (no influence points). I have no idea what triggers it though - probably a combination of bad relationship/fury with the spouse and aspiration (because it would make sense for family Sims to be devastated because of a break-up while romance Sims just shrug it off, so to speak). Personally I can't recall to have ever seen it in my game, but I've spotted the corresponding fear once or twice.

@Quietscheente

Yeah, the fear does indeed exist. And it gets rolled, too. So far, everything is alright.
It makes sense for there to be a want as well. Romance sims would want to get out of any relationship - good or bad - because it cramps their style. They fear getting into it, so why not want to get out?
And other sims should want to get out of something rotten, in hopes of finding a better deal somewhere. Family sims might indeed be broken up about it (pun?), but they would also need to see how it's to their advantage.


What I would have wanted to see, though, is a way to part as friends. Sometimes, two sims get married (as also happens in RL, I'm sure), and later mutually and in friendship decide to break up not because they're unhappy with each other, but simply because they're not overjoyed either. They both realize that a better prospect is waiting for them out there - they might even already have met them - and want to pursue it (my parents did that, by the way; they realized that their love was more like you would love a sibling, not like a life partner. So they ended it and both found something they liked better). I've played such things in my games, and I'm always forced to silently break them up in SimPE, because there is no way to have them break up in a friendly manner.

....Whoops, I remembered incorrectly. I should mention that my memory's pretty shot so you should take anything I say with a healthy grain of salt.

I've used simblender to remove crush flags before, but can it also be used to remove engaged or married flags? If so, would removing them work to end a marriage or would the lack of a breakup memory cause problems to future relationships or with other sims and their fear of relatives breaking up?

I think I've seen the want once or twice, when one spouse was a serial cheater and the other was just so done. I don't see it very often, but I don't have very many cheaters: if I know a sim's likely to cheat, then I take the want to commit, whatever it is, with a grain of salt, and it has to linger without being locked for quite a while.

Yup, you can kill any flag this way. And it will not cause any issues. No effect on wants or fears, either. Sims will simply not remember that it happened.

They married someone in the past, but they are not married now. That is all!

Wow, thanks so much, everyone! I suppose maybe I should see if I can get the want to scroll on, then. Maybe I'll direct her to blatantly cheat a few more times, as she currently has a want to ask the boyfriend on a date. :P

Because I have an instinctive feeling that my Medieval Hood is going to go completely insane (I really worry about Letha Bigge, a romance teen in my hood), I wanted extra mods. I'm going to finally install silent pregnancy. I don't think it'll conflict with ACR, however, I'm not sure about inTeen.

Will InTeen and ACR conflict? If so, is there another teen pregnancy mod that may work. I figured inTeen offered the most features....

I don't use either mod, but I'm relatively certain that quite a few people use both together. (Someone please do correct me if I'm just confused here.)

@AliaD85 They don't, I have both in my game . I use ACR v1 though, not v2 - if that's important.

I use ACRv2 and InTeen together.

So for today's stupid question from me...what's the deal with fluctuating chemistry, anyway? I've had sims with negative chemistry jump up to 2 bolts and sims with 1-2 bolts jump to 3 all without me adjusting any turn ons/offs, aspersions, personalities, or anything at all. It just...changes. And I don't understand what making it happen - and because I'm at least a little Knowledge aspiration myself, not knowing is bugging me. :P

That's mostly based on relationship and is hard to parse, but allows love to trump all other factors in attraction. Don't forget, though, that some turn-ons/offs are conditional - a sim with glasses who wears an everyday outfit that is also classified as formalwear will activate the turn-ons for glasses and formalwear; but when he gets into the hot tub, he loses the glasses and changes into swimwear. Depending on his partner's turn-ons/offs, and the state of the relationship, this can make a noticeable improvement or degradation of the boltage.

If you've got a Knowledge aspiration, then you want to read Cyjon's number-crunching analysis of Chemistry, and possibly also of Death, found linked here: http://www.cyjon.net/node/42 on the upper left sidebar.

Huh. I guess that makes sense. But then I've got the 3 bolt sims who've just met, so I guess that chemistry is technically stronger.


Oh, I've seen that too, but that I understand.


I might not be quite as much of a Knowledge aspiration as all that, lol. But thanks! Maybe I'll take a look at it when I'm in the right mood.

Another question involving the chemistry: One of my Sims often heartfarts at other sims (who aren't Romance, so check that off). But they have no chemistry. What gives?

My best guess would be either one-sided chemistry or (perhaps more likely) very mild chemistry, as in nearly enough for 1LB but not quite?

I've had sims showing 2LB just shrug after a "check out" so idk about that either. :P

Attraction and chemistry are two different things. Boltage is (I think) an average of the attraction of both sims, so it's possible for Sim A to think Sim B is really hot, while Sim B is repulsed by Sim A - this might average out to zero bolts of chemistry. (I get this a lot in my game too.)

See Cyjon's study of chemistry for better information on this.

Is it possible to have two different game files with the UC like you can with the disk version of the game? I would like to make a medieval save as well as my normal modern save if it is possible. And if it is possible, how would I go about dong it?

You could do that by having two different savegame folders, and swapping them in and out as needed.

How would I get a different save games folder. I knew how to do all of it with the disk version but not this version

Check here:
Documents\EA Games\The Sims 2 Ultimate Collection

Install all your medieval CC. Now rename that folder to The Sims 2 Ultimate Collection-1. Open the game and it'll regenerate. Put all your modern CC in. Now you can just rename the two folders as needed when you want to swap back and forth. Don't forget to delete the cache files.

Thanks all. I asked about ACR and InTeen (I have ACR1) because I was thinking about using Almighty Hat's aging mod in my Medieval Hood. It just makes sense to me that if no one is using birth control, and my teens are sexually active, why can't they get pregnant. Well, just the girls for now. The guys can't get pregnant until the elves pop up.

I use ACR 2, InTeen, and Almighty Hat's aging mod. No problems. Read the directions carefully, read the stuff about the Inteen flavor packs twice, set it up the way you want.

Inspired by the cowplant thread, but I've only ever used cowplants in my dorms (not in the regular hood) because while I like the cowplant, I don't like having extra days added to my Sims' lifespan. So I assumed (perhaps incorrectly?) that if they drink the cowplant juice at Uni, those extra days wouldn't count.

Which is all a very long-winded way of asking, does drinking cowplant juice in Uni still give extra lifespan days?

How many glasses of orange juice have a sim to drink in order to be cured from the flu?

Why would my sims not age with the UC? I have never used any aging cheats or anything with it.

From the wikia...
If The Sims 2: Seasons is installed, drinking orange juice made from Tasty or Mouthwatering fruit will cure colds, or at least reduce the amount of time a Sim will need to rest.
But they don't say how many glasses..I'd say one should be enough?

@Rosebine
My sim actually drinks two glasses of juice made from mouthwatering oranges. I think I get it. My sims are sick with the flu.

Wikia says cold, my sims never got a cold, but they got flu. So either orange juice only works on colds, and flu well...eat soup.

This. If my sims get sick, they eat the soup. If they can't make the soup, well, then I guess they're screwed.

Your sims should not get extra days of life. If I remember correctly, there is no aging in Uni, only the countdown timer for exams (I seem to remember that this also means that babies, kittens and puppies will not age while at Uni if you have mods to allow them there). Some time ago one of my YAs did drink life essence from the cowplant and I don't think the timer meter changed at all.

If I change my sims last name in SimPE, it won't affect his family relationships, right?

That's right. The only ways to change the relationships are to go to the relationships tab, and to Family Ties.

my questions about former exterminators & former firefighters; did some testing over the weekend.
added 3 exterminators & 3 firefighters to a household.
fire; had one character leave food cooking on a stove then waited for the fire to start. with freewill off, the former firefighters did nothing while everyone else panicked. when I turned freewill on, one former firefighter extinguished the fire. afterward turned freewill off.
roaches; it seems sims do not notice them when freewill is off. when I turned freewill on, the former exterminators at first stomped on them like everyone else; but afterward one began spraying on one set of roaches then stopped. some of the characters had the vermin Fear.

My Qestion: Is it safe to download a Multi-Pollination Tech Default template?
If so, it is okay to have the dfault moved into my downloads folder after my game has been played for a while? (It is sort of like a face template is it not?)

Also I've read that it is not safe to remove the Pollination template once it has been added.. is that true? If I wanted to remove the template at a later stage for whatever reason is there a safe way to do so?

thank you in advance.

How do you get custom skies and what is required to get them to show up in game? Like will it not if you have a crappy comp? I really want custom skies and may have even downloaded one before, so I'm curious...

about multi-PT; unsafe to remove after a neighborhood has been played with it installed. to remove, I take first copy the characters to each neighborhood that has been played then remove those neighborhoods then remove the mod. if you want to play the neighborhoods again, restore some state before the mod was installed if you have such a backup.

about custom skies; an Internet search might tell how.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that the multi-PTs are added to every neighborhood in the folder while the mod is installed, not just the ones that are played. And removing them is removing an NPC and thus neighborhood-breaking. Once in, you can never take them out.

It is, however, possible to deactivate them, so they'll sit quietly never affecting anything. You can add a new set of multi-PTs, but you can never remove the old ones as long as you have the neighborhoods.

If you want to test a multi-PT mod (or anything else that adds NPCs), it's best to back up your entire Sims2 folder, add the mod, do your testing, and if you're not satisfied, delete it all and restore the backup.

The custom skies that I've seen are an object found in buy mode. They look like a small upside down bowl, and you place it somewhere on your lot (outdoors). Go into the game settings and set the view distance to extra large. And that's it. If your computer can't handle having a larger lot view, it won't work for you. The sky will be affected by the regular Maxis lighting, so you won't have to worry about the sky being bright at 9 PM, but since they're deco objects, the recolor that you set them to will remain, whether it's day or night, rain or shine. There's one here on MTS that simulates weather that was made before the Seasons pack, but as far as I know, there aren't any that take the Maxis weather into account. Yet (one of my millions of projects).

@ DezzyBoo The one I use you place in hood view, the ones placed in lot view never worked for me. My computer is getting old and I figured it was just too much for it, so yes they wont work if your computer is really poor. This is the one I use http://nimi4.livejournal.com/51103.html without horizons for my beach hood. If your hood has land at the edge you would want it with horizons.

Is it fine to have a cemetery in a Uni hood?

After reading this tutorial on genetics, I figured that in order to change a genetic skintone back into a custom skintone, all you have to do is open up it's XML file in SimPe, and change its genetic(dtSingle) value back to 0. Is this wrong? Are their other steps I'd need to take?

Thank you for people's replies. What I think I'll do is back up and test first and then see what happens.

Thank you again.

And do you see the skies even in lot view or just hood view?

Okay another question - I've decided on a Multi-Pollination Tech Set, I downloaded it. I ran it on one of my test hoods, got a sim pregnant and the alien sim came and is a cute little boy. I saved and exit and ran the hood checker to be sure... and the hood checker is saying "sim has no character file". I believe there are the four PT sims... now did I do something wrong? I feel like I've placed the files in the wrong place. As in I only placed them in my downloads folder ... there were 5 files. 4 files I believed belonged to the Pollination and then there was a 5th one which I thought I would have to keep with the other four files.

Did I do something wrong? Have I placed them in the wrong place?

Thank you in advance.

I think PT do not have a character file anyway?

@NewSimgirl2011
Having "Sim has no character file" is fine. I also use a Multi-Pollination set (4 PT) and get this when I run the Hood Checker.

Phew. I thought that because I was just reading up on one of the very old threads on MTS. But I thought best to ask other people that have more knowledge than I.

So does adding a Multi-PT not affect alien Sims already generated in other hoods in the game? (i.e. Strangetown?)

If it's in the downloads folder it'll affect all the hoods. The PT is a universal so multi-PC and default replacement PCs act like universals, too.

The multi-PT will affect all the hoods, but it can't possibly affect alien sims who are already born in those hoods, right? (Which is what I'm pretty sure NewSimgirl2011 is asking.)

Oh, no, it won't retroactively change the genes.

Both, here is what mine looks like

objects.
is there a list telling the catalog locations of shipped version objects? in some downloadable format (PDF, TXT, RTF, DOC, etc)?

build mode.
from my understanding, all expansions and some stuff packs add build mode elements and/or build mode objects. are any of those additions available on only certain lot types? if so, which additions and which lot types?
and are any build mode things from base game disabled on any lot type? if so, which things and which lot types?

hidden sub-neighborhoods.
each expansion since Pets adds a hidden sub-neighborhood to at least neighborhoods created before installation. do those sub-neighborhoods also get attached to neighborhoods made after installation?
and can the characters of those sub-neighborhood appear in the tutorials (the icon on each page of the neighborhood chooser)?

2nd try before my Q get buried. ;-)

Probably yes if there are student graves only.

There are items that are community lot only and residential only but they are in buy not build, build is for all lots.

Actually, Essa, the only grave I ever had on campus disappeared constantly, and then I couldn't send it anywhere. I eventually just had to resurrect her.

This was Drama Acres and should not be taken as a baseline; also, it was on a residential lot, not in a cemetery. Only a long test run is going to answer that question.

I had two graves at uni at a Greek House, they seemed fine. I raised them both later in the main hood as zombies. It may depend on what type of lot the sim dies at.

The only grave I ever had at uni was on the Secret Society lot when an unplayable got eaten by the Cow Plant. I didn't really wait long enough to see if there'd be problems, just had my sim raise him as a zombie since he was her friend. (That was my first and I think only zombie so far.)

And in the download there are multiple pictures? or just one? I assume you just use one at a time...and do you just drop them in the downloads folder? Sorry I'm new to this lol

They are done in sets and I use a blue sky with cloud set and I could if I want change the sky in my hood but I don't tend to, maybe at some point I will get bored with this one and change it. I think I have about 12 different options in the horizonless set that I use now. So yes multiple pictures and I have them in my Hood Deco folder inside my Download folder. If I wanted something really different looking I would have to install another set. it isn't a default so you can have as many in your download folder as you like. Since the block (it looks like a blue block) is placed out in the middle of my hoods sea it wont be so easy to change. easier in a large grassy hood.

Thanks to all members who answered my Q, I won't take the chance then and I don't feel like testing cemetery in uni.

@DezzyBoo
Nimi's download includes several neighborhood sky objects and related pictures so you can get rid of the ones you don't want. You drop them in your Downloads folder.
You can use only one at a time.

Thanks

In "what's happening in your game" thread I've seen people mentioning Sims being specific ages - e.g. 8 years old. How do they determine that from the aging system?