This and That
 

It seems that some build techniques are favored by some people while others prefer a completely different technique. Here is your chance to discuss different techniques.

First up- do you prefer:

NRaas Debug Enabler (object menu>move): http://nraas.wikispaces.com/DebugEnabler
~OR~
Decorator's Best Friend by Virtual Artisan: http://virtualartisan.blogspot.com/...est-friend.html

They appear to do the same thing- move objects in space. They both do not require downloaders to have the mod. I find DBF a bit easier to use. Anyone who has used both, what are the pros and cons? Even if you only have experience with one, please list pros and cons.

I haven't used either of those before, but I usually try to use techniques that won't mess up the lot if the mod's removed, or if the lot moved elsewhere.

I remember trying the DBF once. But I can't remember it so much.

I'm going to install it again, and compare the two.

One thing I really like about the Debug Enabler>Move is the precision.

I can move an item up or down in increments of 0.001.

Something that has been happening since I reinstalled my game, and patched up to 1.67...

Some items will darken if I move them down - curtains, cupboards, tables....

I'll test to see if the same thing happens with the builder's best friends, cuz if it doesn't - I may have to use that for those items.

I never heard about the DBF thing! it looks awesome! Seems like it is possible to replace "tipsy OMSP" with it. I will definitely try it.
I am using Debug Enabler very often so I will add the pros and cons here after I try the "DBF" thing

Edit:

DBF	Debug enabler
time consuming and hard to locate objects	quick and easy to locate objects
Can move doors and windows	Cant move door and windows
Can move flowers and trees	Cant move flowers or trees
Has many options to move in different directions	Can only move up or down
Has no other option then moving stuff	Has way more options like sculpturify etc.

So I will keep using debug enabler to move objects up or down but I will keep DBF fot the options which are impossible with debug enabler

Now I remember why I only used DBF a couple of times before removing it from my mods folder.
As Crowkeeper pointed out, it's difficult to find the object you actually want to move.
But the work-around to that would be to plan carefully, and write down the object's numbers so you can keep track? A real pain, BUT I'm willing to do it.

The fact that the DBF can move plants is a really big deal for me. I've just tested it, and it works.

I tested the doors and windows, and sure enough it does move them, BUT they are no longer usable.

The fact that the DBF tilts objects is a big plus.

I think that I'd need both the DBF and the Debug Enabler.

The Debug Enabler doesn't tilt objects (well, that I know of, so far), and it cannot move trees and shrubs, etc.
But it can smudge objects to look scratched up. It can sculpturify, and bring meteors.
It can burn objects, or just scratch them up. It can make puddles and scorch the ground with lightening strikes.

I'm glad you asked about this. I tried the DBF once, but wasn't that impressed, because it was a real pain finding objects in that list.
But given what I've learned here today, and if it isn't required for anyone downloading my lots to also download the DBF, I will definitely be using it in the future.

Wow Crowkeeper, thanks for making that chart. It is really useful.

tsyokawe I know what you mean about finding an object with DBF. I was recently using it in a shop where there were dozens of items, and it was a pain. However, if you know what you want moved and where the item will be located, I suppose you can do that bit first, before lots of added items make it harder to find.

I think there may be a work around for windows, but I need to look into it. A person downloading a lot definitely DOES NOT need DBF for objects to remain in position. However, like Debug Enabler, it a person moves the object, it falls to the floor. (Love the car in your screenshot.)

What does "sculpturify" do- makes an object into sculpture? What would you use that for?

It turns an object into wood, or stone, etc.

I've used it to change objects that can't be cast (like the buydebug WA relics).

a couple of examples from some earlier uploads:

this WA vase
this wooden bowl
these two stone relics (by the way, I moved that heart-shaped gem up onto that heart-shaped key using NRaas).

edited to add: there are only 3 kinds of wood and 3 kinds of stone. you can't actually CHOOSE them,
BUT using the "change material," option, you can finagle a bit to get the type of wood or stone you want.

For example. You get wood grain 1, but you want wood grain 2.

1. You go to "change material," and select something different than the material you're using (try bronze or something).
2. Then go back again to "change material," and re-select "wood." There's a 50:50 chance you'll get the wood grain you want.
3. If you still didn't get the one you wanted, go back and "change material" to some other kind of material again.
And then again, go back in and "change material" to "wood". It's never taken me more than 3 times. :lovestruc

What Tsyo said and you might also want to know that in order to prevent objects that are turned to ice via sculpturify from melting your sim needs to create 25 ice sculptures.

I made a tiny "tutorial" about SIM sculpturifying on my tumblr so I will copy it here:

Stop your game when your sim is making any “sculpture worthy” pose. (It doesnt work with pose player poses)

Then click on your sim and select: Nraas - DebugEnabler - Option:sim (sometimes your sim will be listed as smartphone:D) - sculpurify

You can choose from six materials

other notes:

I found out that when you make a sculpture of a sim wearing CC stuff, the sculpture will stay the same even after removing that CC from you game!

When someone downloads a lot with such a sculptures they will appear as ice goblins. But when the player saves the game and load it again it will appear correctly.

That is really great news. I think the ice sculpture are the most beautiful.

When I built the Landgraab National Gallery. I'd sculpturified a few buydebug remains urns into ice. They were gorgeous.
But after a few days of route testing and such, they melted. It's too late now to make ice urns for that again...but in the future, I know I will do it.

I'll just make sure I"ve got an experienced Sim on the lot.

I agree

I was wondering If you guys know about a tool that can replace this: http://mahamudosim3.blogspot.tw/201...e93497c1bae9140 (the OMSP RESIZER)

EDIT:

I just wanted to add that this "issue" can be useful sometimes. I moved a sculpturified ice decor down and it became dark but it changes color according to the lighting outside which is kind of interesting...I call it "ice clock" :D:D:D:D

God, that would be wonderful.

I read that they can resize in Sims 4. Too bad they didn't think to patch Sims 3 to do the same.

I love playing around with that thing.

Oh, the kitchen from my favorite house. :lovestruc

Thank you! This is SO helpful. I love the black and white sculptures- beautiful.

Next Up: CFE
Why do you love it (or in tsyokawe's case, REALLY love it ) or why do you hate it?

I did the little CFE tutorial two different times, but it never clicked with me. My building style has evolved from the sad beginning of giant barn-like boxes to more focus on color and proportion and that's probably as far as it's going to go. But maybe some day I'll have a CFE inspiration/revelation - I wouldn't mind if that happened.

I love CFE because it can offer so many different solutions.

We can use CFE to shape gables, to fake ramparts, to fake cornices, to fake raised lawns, to arc bridges (or to drape them)
to vault ceilings, and/or to put open beams in ceilings, to make crenulated castle roofs...
to raise roofs so that their eves don't hang down quite so far, or to fit hipped roofs on to cornices.

edited to add: I prefer to make my foundations with CFE, because that way I can replace walls with fencing if I want.
And it's less complicated with CFE (versus a foundation) when putting in a basement.

Now that you have taught me that DBF can move plants, this particular use won't be necessary anymore,
but CFE can be used to move a plant up. I once used CFE to move a fern so that it would appear to be
growing in a vase...a WA relic vase that I had sculpturified into stone.

There are just so many cool things that we can do with CFE. The different heights, angles, and arcs
can add interest to our lots, and in many cases make them unique.

CFE is hardIt requires to plan ahead.....and that is something I cant do :D

So I use CFE only for the absolutely basic stuff like making bridges and higher buildings etc...

I tend to think of CFE as something to use as a last resort- it's certainly useful, but at the same time, it can make other aspects of building much more difficult, mess up other parts of a lot's aesthetics, and (for me, making lots that I upload for other people to use) can make a remodel almost impossible for someone who isn't as familiar with the nuances of CFE manipulation. It has its place, no question- just not on every lot!

I agree; I would never recommend the gratuitous use of CFE.

But it is still the only tool I know of for manipulating walls and floors to aid in the production of attractive lots.
(And with the exception of my foundations, I guess "last resort" would apply to several of my lots, because CFE
was the only way to effect the results I'd worked for).

When I use CFE (which has become routine, since I use it for foundations), I make sure to warn the downloader that I've used it, and where I've used it.

Late edit: I have finally comprehended the closing sentence in your post!
Zarathustra! I am one of those builders who uses CFE "on every lot!"

I do not have lots of experience with CFE. I have seen builders do amazing things with it, especially with bridges and roofs. I know some will not download lots that use CFE, I guess because of the difficulty in remodeling. I think builders should build what they love, but if you are uploading the lot, some consideration should be given to the people downloading. However, I don't think you should change your build to please others.

I don't even understand how one would use CFE to move a fern so that it would appear to be growing in a vase(???), though it sounds intriguing. I also agree with Crowkeeper about the difficulty of planning ahead as a build evolves. I have seen floating floor tiles on some builds. Is that a result of CFE?

With a little patience, you can remove those ceiling tiles permanently. I really should go back and look at my earlier works...I probably have tiles on those.
If I find any, I'm just going to remove those uploads from my collection.

As you know, from the underside of those ceiling tiles, you can delete them using the sledge hammer.

To delete them permanently:

1. go around and delete all tiles.
2. make a share file of the building.
3. delete the original building.
4. now place your share file building on to the lot you just deleted the original building from.
5. look for ceiling tiles in your new lot. if there are any, delete THOSE tiles.
6. save THIS new building as a share file, and get rid of the earlier one.

This latest building should be empty of floating ceiling tiles. It is this new building that should be safe for upload.

I posted a quick tutorial on how to use CFE to "raise" something. It's in my journal.
I don't know how to find the exact url of a journal entry, so you're gonna have to scroll down to it.
It's titled, Another Use for CFE!

http://www.modthesims.info/member.php?u=7849226

Oh, they are ceiling tiles, not floor tiles? I guess that makes more sense. Thanks for the link to your journal. I thought I had read all your tutorials. [OT] How do you decide where to put a tutorial? I read one on the wiki about roofs that wasn't accurate. Should I try to correct it?

Are there any other cons to CFE?

I don't know about modding and CC tutorials, but we're supposed to post our build tutorials in the Create>Building forum.
After you have it posted, you contact the mods for that forum (their nicknames are found at the bottom of the page), and let them
know you want it put in the tutorial section.

Once they move it, it will show up in the Wiki.
Then, if you want, you can add a link to it on the wiki tutorial lists.

Authored tutorials...I'm not sure if it's appropriate to edit those, but the general wiki information is actually set up for editing. I say go for it.

I've thought of another con to CFE...but I'm not sure how to describe it. If you think of the entire lot as a space that has 5 levels (above ground) it helps, I guess.
I'm not positive, but I think when we manipulate levels..it might actually interfere with future stuff underneath. I've had issues with ladder placements...the game saying the ceiling was too low...
when there was no ceiling or when the ceiling was clearly 16 steps high.

I believe this might happen if I've been CFE-ing above that area...I haven't formally tested that, though.
I do remember a few months ago, leveling out an area to its "original" wall height...No, there were no walls there. But I placed walls, one on top of the other. And I used the level tool.
To put an open area back to its original make up...then I deleted the walls. I was able to mess with it after that.

If it ever comes up, I'll try to make a quick picture tutorial for you. The best rule of thumb is to try to use as little space as possible when messing with floor levels. Add only as many floor tiles as you need to fit a stair.

The only real cons for me in CFE are the slanting of walls, and the fact that the damned game cannot read a combined two-levels as one level.
Every other issue has work-arounds. I am so grateful that I learned CFE. I haven't even done all the things I want to do with it. I have projects taped up on my wall.
Lots I wasn't able to reproduce from photos (until I learned CFE). It is a wonderful sculptural tool.

I think most people who are downloading realize that they shouldn't mess with a CFE lot. But they also realize that without CFE that particular lot couldn't be made.
I figure they probably weigh their priorities, and download accordingly.

Without CFE, foundations would be limited to two levels - either one step or 4 steps high. But in real life, we see many, many houses with 3, or as many as 12 steps up to the porch and front door.
Without CFE, we couldn't make proper attics. But many, many houses still standing in the real world have attics.
Without CFE, we'd have to use CC to put in L-shaped or U-shaped stairs, but a majority of houses with stairs rely on those two types.
Without CFE, we wouldn't be able to produce vaulted or open-beamed ceilings, but they exist in reality.

I admit, most of the other stuff might be unnecessary...our arched and draped bridges, our floating structures or structures up on wheels,
our insanely wavy roofs and our fantasy structures might seem a bit much to some, but architects do produce those, and as builders, we can't help but want to copy them.

Hey, I luvs me some CFE too! Of my personal favorite lots that I've made, ALL of them used it, some of them pretty extensively! (the domes on my Galileo Station lot wouldn't have worked any other way!) I agree with just about all of your points about it, but it does make for a more complicated lot, and in many cases that may be something that you want to avoid for one reason or another!

This has also made me kind of curious what the differences are with CFE between TS2 and TS3... I wonder if it's more integral to certain build-styles in one game over the other?

Yikes. I don't know. I've never played Sims 2. That's a good question. I'm curious about that now, too.

I bet @Fergus' Mind would know. He's built in both versions.
And like you and cutsocks, he's genius at it.

I hear that Origin is offering Sims2, but I have issues with Origin.
I'm going to keep looking in second-hand stores and pawn shops.
I'm sure I'll run into a game soon enough.

uh. um. I'm sorry that that last post sounds so preachy...as though I'm witnessing for CFE.
I just get so enthusiastic about using it. I really do luvs me some CFE.

You can get TS2 from EA customer service. Then you can install Origin on a thumb drive, download TS2, and remove Origin forever. You don't need Origin to launch TS2 once it's installed.

Ts2 has cfe as well. I don't remember the details more than that. I have been experimenting with the limits more in 3, so I don't know much about those in 2.

When I download a lot, I may remodel it, but I don't usually renovate- change the lot itself, so the use of CFE isn't really an issue for me. If anything I appreciate all the cool stuff that can be done using it.

When you start a build, do you do the interior or exterior first? Obviously they go hand in hand. I have built lots both ways and I'm not sure which way makes more sense. Does it depend on what you're building?

I always finish the exterior first. And I always end up with some crazy shape and then it is really hard to make the individual rooms :P
I also usually make the whole front first with all the detailing and stuff and when I like the color scheme and all I proceed to finish the rest of the house. I focus on making it "interesting" from every angle. I cant stand having "boxy parts" on houses. I also HATE HATE HATE HATE symmetry:P

Sounds like I have pretty much the same approach (and the same ensuing issues- Hooray for weird-shaped buildings! ) as Crowkeeper, with the exception of hating symmetry. There are definitely cases where it makes a lot look boring and dull, but there are also times when it's entirely appropriate, and in fact NOT using it can make a lot look ill-conceived.

I do the exterior first - I want to get the proportions of the house right (with 'right' just meaning it looks good to me). Then I look inside to see how the rooms might be divided up and I might make changes to the exterior based on that.
I don't try to make an exact copy of a real world house - I use them as inspirations. And I can't do CFE so a lot of real world houses would be impossible for me to make exactly anyway.
(Also I love to renovate EA houses.)

I try to lay down the shape of the foundation first. Sometimes I'll actually put flooring on the ground to map out a house.
So, I'd have to say that I'm probably building the insides and outsides at the same time. (The first floor, anyway.)

If there's to be a basement, I'll place that underneath then I'll put in the stairs.

Then I'll erect walls on that, and CFE the walls to foundation height, remove the "flooring," and the guides for my interior walls, and build upwards.

@tsyokawe In your new upload- Family Victorian, there is a bedroom with bunk beds with black and white pictures of dogs over the desk. How did you do that?

Shout out to Crowkeeper and tsyokawe for new downloads today!

As Rose city I do the interior and exterior together through the building. It all has to follow the same style. The garden usually ends up being taken at last, because I prefer using the same or similar furniture, and again the style has to fit.

I do the landscaping last because it's my favorite part. Though sometimes I do it in the middle of a project if I get "stuck".

I wanna give a heads-up regarding the DBF.

It turns out that if you back out from build mode (up to Edit Town) and save,
the numbers that identify your objects are reset, changed.

I am in the process of making an MTS calendar image. Doing so involves moving many of one particular object up and down.
To help me keep track of the objects, I only placed one at a time.
I found it in the DBF list, and made a note of its last 4 digits/letters.
This way, when I placed the next one, I could look for the number not yet recorded.

I don't need to tell you, but this is tedious as all hell. After an hour of, I took a break. I backed out to Edit Town, and saved. Right?

I just came back. And the objects have all been assigned new numbers. I had to write them all down. (most were in succession, so not as big a deal as maybe I'm whining about.)

I just wanted to let you know. If your project involves scores of one object type. You may not wish to back out and save.

If you find that you need to, expect to re-record the numbers on your objects. :lovestruc

Oh my I am sorry to hear that. I use the DBF thing only when absolutely necessary...I only recently "found out" the option to add the function to all objects in the room which makes it easier to locate objects (by clicking on them)
But it still doesnt work on the objects that are not "clickable" like trees etc. so it is not a big help

I was building a house today and first the game crashed and when I got back and made the changes again it was impossible to save the lot to the bin...so I had to make the changes another timeSo I did the same thing three times:D
Really unlucky day for builders:P

Woah. I'm glad to learn that I can do many objects at once (that are clickable). I can't help but believe that's going to come in handy at some point.

Maybe EA put a spell on us. mwahaha

New topic: I choose to build something because I need it, or something inspires me or intrigues me. If we build only for ourselves, and share only pictures, then we can do whatever we wish. The question I have is: how do you change your build if you are planning to share it? Do you make any adaptations for potential downloaders? I try to limit the EPs and SPs and cc I use. I try to think how play- friendly my build is. I am still new at this, with 4 build uploads to my name. I am trying to find the balance between what suits the build, and what suits downloaders. What are your thoughts?

I find myself torn. Part of me doesn't see the sense in uploading stuff if no one is going to want it.
The whole purpose of uploading is to share. But if I am using EPs or Store Content that others don't have, then I'm not really sharing.

Obviously, there are creations that benefit greatly from EPs. For example, some modern structures need stuff from LN,
most Victorians need stuff from SN, and many of the farm/rural/rustic lots look better with stuff from PETs.

In just the last couple of weeks, I was reminded that most of the downloaders out there want lots with as few EPs as possible.
So from now on, every other upload (one upload in every two) I put up will be as near to basegame as I can get it.
That is, if it isn't actually basegame, it will use objects from only one other EP. I mean, I can't see the point in uploading if I'm not offering something that other people actually want.

My main goal is to have fun. I love building fantasy and crazy houses and I do not limit myself by choosing only specific EPs because it is terrible to filter it all the timeI am not sure If I would be able to make a house with only basegame... I guess it wouldnt be fun at all for me...
For the sake of downloaders I dont use stuff packs, CC(used a roof recolor twice:P) or store content but I almost always use absolutely every EP possibleCC is amazing and I love working with it but only for my "personal use". When I started playing sims I have been working on one house for more then a year. The house was really huge and filled with CC. I thought that I would share it after I finish it but it was so big that it wouldnt even exportAnd that was a moment when I stopped using CC and started to think a bit more about the people who will be downloading it...:D

@tsyokawe You mentioned in another thread about CASting the edge of a floor or wall. I know Don Babilon has a tutorial about improving the textures when you do. I don't know how you get the edges to CASt. I can never seem to "grab" them. Is there a trick I don't know about, or a better angle to reach them?

It's usually easier if you drop the walls all the way. Other than that...I think it's just a matter of practice.
I've been CASting the sides since the first time I saw one light up as I passed over it. It's been a couple of years.
It's hard to remember if it was difficult at first. I guess it must've been. You're not the first poster I've heard from who said they couldn't select the edge of the floor.

I know that grabbing the sides of a ceiling/floor in the stairwell is sometimes bothersome unless I drop the walls.
Then it's right there for the grabbing.

So I guess I'm saying this the long way....drop the walls first. See if it's easier to see and to select the sides then. :lovestruc

I will try dropping the walls to CASt the edges of floors- thanks! Any suggestions for edges of walls- or is that not even possible?

oh, I WISH.
I've gotten to the point that I use the half-walls or fencing instead, because I HATE the tops of those effing walls.

How about using the shelves from generations for the tops of walls?

oooh, Crowkeeper, I will check that out the next time I'm in game.

Great I just wanna add that you will have to use the "DBF" thing to place it to the right height and to "center" it on top of the wall

I don't think it's possible to cast the top of wall, only the floordividers. What I often do is use those garden edges for the top of walls. Some of them can be casted. Using some DBF mod is just a step too far for me. I can even cover them up with plants.

I am considering building a London flat. I like the floor plan for this one, but the exterior, well less so. I can change it, of course. The floor plans are for the first floor, but I don't understand how the second and third floor flats are accessed. Could there be separate entries on other sides of the building? The floor plan seems to imply no interior access to the higher floors.

I think that must be it. Somewhere in the back or on the sides, there must be exterior access.
Do you happen to know the address? You could try googling it, and take a look
at the roof view, and at the different street views.

You might be able to get a sense of where the stairs are by moving down the street just a bit,
or maybe you can see the rear of the building from the street behind.

The front door in the photo isn't the same as the door to the entrance hall in the floorplan. It looks like there's another hall, probably including some stairs, that's not shown in the floorplan.

It looks to me like that house has been subject to numerous changes, and what they ended up with might not be very practical. I've seen the same in apartments I have been renting both in Rome and London. Hopeless layout, I'm thinking it used to be much bigger, now they have devided it up, or perhaps they needed to fit an elevator.

That house looks to me like they had 1 family living there with perhaps a business on the ground floor. Now it's turned into one smaller family on each floor, and suddenly they have to fit all functions on each floor.

Did you plan on making it for more families, or do you want a one family accommodation?

I agree with arathea, I should think you'll find the true/original entrance hall and staircase in the blank space between the reception room and front bedroom as that ties up with the exterior, I'm guessing they omitted it from the floorplan you found because it's a public room used by all of the residents of that building. Usually when these grand Victorian villas are converted into flats, the main staircase is kept to add a sense of grandeur that is otherwise lost in the flats that are accessed from it. I could certainly suggest some comparable examples of how the actual entrance hall of that house may look.

Thanks everyone! I am going to play around with it. I didn't think the space between the reception room and front bedroom was large enough to be an entrance + staircase, but perhaps I can make it work. I was going to make the first floor an apartment and the top two would just be a shell. The game seems to have issues with more than one apartment, at least for me. Any suggestions?

Which game are you building in? If it's TS3, Volvenom is a pro when it comes to apartments, she should definitely know a thing or two that might be helpful.

attuned might have tried an already tried and tested house, that just wouldn't work in his/her game. It happens. I can help you out though, shouldn't be too much of a problem with that house, if you can find somewhere to fit the staircases.

I am building in TS3.

@Volvenom What is the advantage of making the building have three apartments, instead of one on the first floor, and the upper two floors empty? I want to give the illusion of a three story building, but it seems simpler to make just one apartment. I would love to know what you think. Thanks!

It's very simple to do. You just put hidden markers in the two upper apartments, in all the rooms. it's better really if you just ditch all decoration and have no room. You kan just put some walls in if you don't like it from the window. nitromon suggested having rooms by the windows, and just have the tenants in the middle or something. It doesn't matter where you put the NPC's really. The game doesn't really do anything good with them. If you have anything good in the apartment it will just add to the price for your active family.

The rooms and balconies you don't use for your active family, you can put public markers in.

The NPC's needs to have their own door, and making the structure too complicated will make your job more complicated and the game might not even understand. You can have a hallway with a staircase inside and have doors to each apartment from there.

If you don't make it too complicated, you can quite easily make yourself some nabours to play with. I'm not a player though, but you probably knows quite well already how an NPC works in game, much better than me.

If you put tenants in, they will help out paying the bills.

@attuned

Can I leave the upper floors empty, or are hidden markers necessary? Thanks for your answers!

I think the hidden markers has to do with pricing of the active families flat.

I am working on an Arts and Craft Cottage. If anyone has a chance, there is a new thread for it, in Creator Feedback

EDIT: uploaded to queue- thanks everyone!

Do you know that feeling, that great feeling, when a lot you are working on suddenly "works"? When the layout comes together, the roof looks good, the colors are complimenting each other well? Yeah, haven't had that feeling in a loooooong time for any of my builds. I keep tucking lots into my WIP folder and moving on. I guess it's a builder slump.

So I discovered a new technique. Well, perhaps it's only new to me. In TS3 when you are using the Move Objects On cheat, you can move or delete the different parts of the fireplace chimney. That's not the news. The top section, the chimney cap, will continue to issue smoke, even if the rest of the chimney is deleted and it's moved anywhere else. If, however, you decide to build your own chimney around it, smoke will come from the level of the cap, and not from the top of your chimney. I wonder if you can raise the cap with NRaas debug enabler so the smoke comes from the top? I have to try that next time I'm in game.

Yes I have tried making it fit as well. Does the debug enabler make stick there? I have seen with other solutions if the support isn't there anymore it can drop from it's place, whatever it is. Like windows without support falls.

Would they stay more in place with the debug enabler?

Debug enabler and Decorators Best Friend place the object in space, so don't require support. If someone doesn't have the mods in their game and they move the item, then it will fall to the floor. I am not sure if it will work with the chimney cap and smoke, but I'll try it out and report back.

EDIT: The chimney cap stays in place, but the smoke comes from an odd place- so not ideal.

Hey @attuned thanks for the compliments on my lot
I already have both Debug Enabler and DBF, the latter gets used often for moving objects around and I love it! The reason I used OMSPs in that lot was mainly to resize stuff, and since the Resizer OMSPs require the original OMSP to work I was like "eh, OMSPs are a bit more convenient to use than DBF so what the heck". Do they really cause lag though? I did notice that the camera movements while panning across that lot were a bit jerky, but thought it was to do with the amount of objects used. Perhaps not.

Oh and maybe this is already mentioned in the thread, but instead of having to remember the name of the object you want to move with DBF then painstakingly search through the list of objects for it, it's much easier to just select "add move interactions to all objects in room" while in Live Mode.