I got a weird bug happening where the janitors on Downtown lots continually throw trash on the floor. They collect the trash, walk over to the trash can, and then just dump it on the floor next to it. They will do this over and over, picking up the floor trash piles they themselves have created and attempting to dispose of them, but they never actually get the trash in the bin! Then the roaches and flies start to come...

It's not happening in any other neighborhoods, just Downtown. And I'm not using custom trash cans or anything, just the Maxis ones. The trash cans are placed normally around the lots and should be perfectly usable. AFAIK I don't have any trash-related or janitor-related mods.

Any ideas about what might be causing this strange behavior?

Something that is interfering with and breaking the SimAntics code on the trashcan, the use of it, most likely. I suspect it will be one of the mods you've installed for an object placed in those Downtown lots -- even if it is not janitor and trashcan related. It must be interfering with the trashcan object in some way (whether it was cloned from it, or whether it is breaking the SimAntics programming on the trashcan somehow).

That's all I got.

What you could try to do is extract the Downtown trashcan from the game FARs, and then place it in the GameData/UserObjects folder. See if that overrides the mod that is causing the trouble.

As far as I know, UserObjects takes precedence over the Downloads folder. And any IFF file placed outside a FAR will override the one in the FAR archive.

I'll need to have a think about what I'm using on Downtown lots but not anywhere else. Hmm I wonder if it's the replacement Downtown phonebooths I'm using? They're from a reputable site but who knows... I'll do some testing.

If I can't figure it out I'll try extracting the trash can, I suppose. Thank you!

If I can't find the cause, I usually go by a process of elimination: remove (move out) all the Downtown mods, then see if the game behaves normal. Then add some back a small bunch at a time -- keeping track of which mods you're adding. When it breaks, you know which small bunch contains the buggy item -- and then you can find the item using the same process of elimination on them, narrowing down on the suspect. 😉

Before you do anything, though, remember to backup your whole game directory -- in the event that anything should go wrong, so you can restore things to the way they were.

I woke up today with an idea/solution for this!

If you're using my coffee table fix/mod, try moving the DoubleDeluxe coffee table IFF out of your Downloads folder first, and see if that makes a difference to the behaviour of the trash bins Downtown.

I realised this morning that the only objects in the game that have this same problem are the DoubleDeluxe coffee tables. And I realised that since the coffee tables were one of the early things made in the game, it's possible that they were cloned by the developer later to create other items in the game, like the Downtown trashcan, for example.

When sims have trouble putting something in/on an object, that's usually the result of an improperly configured/compiled slot on the object (which is something we unfortunately can't edit in IFF Pencil 2). I believe this slot on the Downtown trashcans is what got affected somehow -- whether through the override on the DoubleDeluxe coffee tables, or by another mod.

Just to be clear -- the sims walk up to the trashcan, try to put the trash in the bin (the animation plays), and then end up dropping the trash next to the bin, correct?

I'm looking into modifying slots in the game. There's not a lot of information on it, but I found this reference for The Sims 2:

https://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=146440

It looks like it's a hex editing operation. I think the slots were compiled into the object when the object was created, based on whatever software they used when they compiled the objects. They're not as straightforward to edit as other attributes in the IFF, because they were compiled into binary code.

However, maybe we don't need to edit the slots themselves!! Maybe we can cut and paste an existing slot that works from a similar object using IFF Pencil 2 into the object whose slot doesn't work! That could be a solution (potentially)!

I'll try it on the DoubleDeluxe coffee tables, and let you know if it worked.

Okay, so it turns out it's not about the slot at all!! 😀 It's actually about the BHAV scripting on the item. Specifically the script that allows you to put something onto/into the object. So whatever is interfering with your trashcan has messed up the trashcan's BHAV script for putting an item into the trashcan.

I will release an update to the coffee tables this evening that fixes the DoubleDeluxe coffee tables as well.

I am pretty certain that if you override with the trashcan's IFF whatever mod is overriding your trashcans, the trashcan behaviour will return to normal. The bug is most definitely (or very-very likely) on the Downtown trashcan IFF, and specifically that "put into trashcan" BHAV script.

Is it Lot 28? Other lots just work fine for me except this lot, there are 2 trash cans placed under stair, I suspect they are unuseable due to wrong direction, sims will give up "put into trashcan" action if they choose these 2 trash cans, or any stucked trash can, then forget about the trash piles which being thrown on floor, end up I have to add dragon to eat those piles 😂

Correct. I didn't even know this! 😆 It looks like Maxis didn't even do any play-testing on Lot 28, because the big, metal trashcans (the ones we have one of on our home lot, too) are actually an object that can be accessed from only one direction, and they turned both of those trashcans under the stairs facing the wall! 😅 That's why sims can't put anything in them, and keep dumping the trash on the floor.

Even more weirdly, when enough trash heaps pile up under the stairs, they end up showing up on the other side of the stairs, too -- teleporting across! 😂 (Because that staircase is in a closed "room".)

If you go into buy mode, and turn the metal trashcans out towards the door, and save the lot, then they become usable and the problem goes away.

So this is not actually a bug, but a ridiculous mistake on Maxis' part. It shows that they slapped that lot together in the editor, and never actually bothered to play-test it properly. 😅

The way the usable objects work in the game is that they have two types of slots:

1. Routing slots, that tell the sims where they can stand to operate the object.

2. Container slots, where something can be stored/dropped into/onto the object.

(There may also be a third kind, called a target slot, which tells the animation where the object can be interacted with, or defines where the object spawns another object.)

Some objects have multiple routing slots, and some, like the metal trashcan, have only one -- so they have to be facing the right way, so that sims can stand in that slot and operate the object.

I also notice most visitors went into that tiny room which contained the 2 trash cans, I thought they have something want to dump, but they all simply go in and out, later found out they just want to use the stairs, since the stairs located in the same room with trash cans

Yes! It is definitely happening on this lot with the trash cans under the stairs, and the trash does teleport to the front of the stairs. Very silly looking!

However, it is also happening on other Downtown lots. I noticed it happening on the other beachfront lot after I remodeled it. I tried adding more trash cans, using different trash cans, and the result is still the same: the janitor walks to the trash can and dumps the trash on the floor next to it.

...Is it possible that I have turned ALL of these trash cans to the "wrong" direction so sims cannot use them properly? I guess I will have to check later.

It's possible. That can be one reason. The other reason would be if the Downtown trashcan IFF's slot or BHAV scripting have been changed by a mod, as I mentioned earlier.

As far as I know, though, and I've seen, the other public trash bins have multiple routing slots around the bin. So if it is happening on all the Downtown bins, then the latter situation is more likely.

This is a very good real-life example of what's wrong with AI. 😉 Why it can't be trusted fully. In computer terms, this scene makes perfect sense: the trash is appearing in the same room it was dropped into, in the space that is available in that room. But in human terms, it's completely ridiculous, and makes no sense whatsoever: there's a physical flight of stairs blocking the way, separating the room into two separate areas/sections.

This is how AI makes mistakes. 🤭

Actually it's nothing wrong with the trash does teleport to the front of the stairs because it's game logic, all objects are just objects, no matter how tall are they (yes, it still a funny thing for me because it won't happen in real world ). One more ridiculous thing is if got flood water beside fireplace or campfire, fire will happen, also burn and spead to koi pond or any other water related objects unless got Clear Flag Burns assigned in BHAV init tree, only swimming pool and build mode water are true water in game

That's what I meant. 🤭 To the AI/computer, it makes perfect sense and it is not an error, because it's entirely logical, but to the player, they'll be looking at it and going, "What in the world??! This makes absolutely no sense!" 😂

So the AI is not wrong, but at the same time it is very wrong -- sometimes terribly. 😆

This is a simple and very obvious example of that. The same thing with the fire you mentioned. 😁 It's an object, so it can burn, right? Never mind that it actually represents a water object. 😂

Computer logic sometimes fails like this -- especially if the programmer did not foresee something like this ever happening. They're "bugs" that are not actually bugs, because the computer is logically following through its programming, and it's not an error.

There's another thing that the developers terribly messed up in the Downtown lots with the Vacation expansion pack:

They added barbeques/grills to the Downtown lots without testing them. The way the burgers are programmed in the game is that the sims will prioritise serving them on a counter over serving them on a table. Downtown lots have counters -- shop counters! 😂

So if a sim grills burgers, they will walk into the nearest shop, and place them on the counter. 🤣

To fix this, you need to put an outdoor counter next to each BBQ/grill on each lot in Downtown.

I fixed all the the BBQs in my game, since they are too buggy for me, they only check for normal food objects but skip checking FoodHD which inside ExpansionShared.far, this cause the whole lot flooded by plate of burgers, after fixed, they won't autonomous grill unless no more edible burger on lot, but will still place inside shop if outside tables, end tables or counters are full, not a good thing but still acceptable for me at least I saw them placed on proper tables at other downtown lots.

I also fixed the metal trash can so they can be used from any direction and multiple sims can use on same time without waiting.

But still need to queue for upload after fix my sims blog, already delay for months, cannot delay anymore 😂