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Field Researcher
#976 Old 19th Jun 2024 at 1:53 PM
The character models are kinda a basic issue. Like I said, didn't seem like they had issues creating systems (mini games, relationships, traits, jobs, etc etc) but if you wait to long to fix the most basic part of a game (the characters in this case), you're creating a LOT of work for yourself down the line.

Let's pretend they did have an animator with these models and they created 300 different animations that really only work with these anatomically awkward models. 300 animations is probably months and months of work. Maybe even a year.

Then at some point, they release Early Access with all the extra features they planned to add later. That comes with more and more animations. 200 to 300 more animations with these awkward models.

Now they're finally gonna replace the models........ that means the animator has to remake at least 600+ animations potentially from scratch because they had to work with such an awkward model. That's a whole extra year or so of development time to redo a basic feature. An issue that could've been avoided if they started with better models.

At the point of a beta, aka Early Access, the characters should already be sorted out at the very least so all the other features can be piled on top.
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Test Subject
#977 Old 19th Jun 2024 at 7:50 PM
^And that's just for the character anatomy! Then you had other things like the lack of game direction and the over-focus on modding both decided at the onset of the project also crippling the game. Its not hard to see why it was cancelled, they made a lot of bad decisions right from the jump and at this point it was too late to course correct. If there's one lesson to take away for game developers: have a very precise vision and plan of the game you want to make before even thinking of starting.
Scholar
#978 Old 20th Jun 2024 at 2:55 AM
Quote: Originally posted by Ramaru
^And that's just for the character anatomy! Then you had other things like the lack of game direction and the over-focus on modding both decided at the onset of the project also crippling the game. Its not hard to see why it was cancelled, they made a lot of bad decisions right from the jump and at this point it was too late to course correct. If there's one lesson to take away for game developers: have a very precise vision and plan of the game you want to make before even thinking of starting.


Except that I don't see anything in your post as a reason to be cancelled. The mod tools were tools they use themselves to add objects, like mentioned in their vids. Kind of like how the creation kit for an Elder Scrolls game is derived from their own developing tools to create quests and environments. You can expect all developing studios to have something like that, because usually the level designers and graphic artists are not also coders. So they need convenient tools to add assets. So whether or not they release them to the public, they are already there and being used by themselves.

It is kind of sad that most reasoning I see for the cancelling are just personal gripes with the game. I know the characters look bad, but that can be fixed. Animations can be reworked. This does not have to be done all at once.
Field Researcher
#979 Old 20th Jun 2024 at 3:59 AM
Like I said, it's not just that the characters look bad. They are wrong. It's not simple to just "fix" it later. It should've been fixed as soon as possible. You can't build a game properly if your basic systems are not ready at the time of beta else the cost of development will balloon.

The character's anatomy, animation, and appearance is just as import as the modding system or skill system or gardening system. I'm not someone who thinks everything should look perfect in early access. I have played and will play plenty of ugly games. But it's not that the characters are ugly, it's that they're straight up wrong.

It's pretty clear they used this free unity asset to start off with as a base. It has the exact same anatomical issues: https://assetstore.unity.com/packag...se-avatar-35611

I don't think there's wrong with using unity assets to start with. After all, that's what they're for. But why stick with these when you have other cheap options such as:
https://assetstore.unity.com/packag...man-base-176568
https://assetstore.unity.com/packag...ase-pack-248506
https://assetstore.unity.com/packag...ase-pack-237635
(insert dozes of others that might be a little nsfw since they're nude)

Like I said, I am baffled that they stuck with the direction they were going and just, didn't seem to change much of anything at all. I fear the reason they stuck with these models for so long is because they were ALREADY too far along to replace them so they tweaked them here and there and then seemingly gave up fixing them after a while. Probably because they didn't have someone on staff well versed in human anatomy to fix them properly or someone who could animate/pose them better.

I'm sure there were plenty of other issues that compounded on this singular one, but it truly starts to add up eventually.
Mad Poster
#980 Old 20th Jun 2024 at 7:11 AM Last edited by PANDAQUEEN : 20th Jun 2024 at 7:31 AM. Reason: Clarity, Addendum, Tweaks and Errors
When the developers said they got the proverbial rug pulled out from beneath them, I kinda got the feeling that the whole thing had issues from the point where they couldn't return and it was more a gut feeling that the issue was from a higher-up's decision that we weren't prepared for.

Personally, the game didn't look aesthetically displeasing. I found it refreshing from the cartoony looks, and those videos were interesting to see development.

That and they were performing at the maximum outputs in said department, so something is amiss.

Unfortunately, when you have too many cooks spoiling the broth, all that's left is a mess that no one wants to clean.

It's like going out for a 7 course meal, only to be given a cup of instant noodles because the kitchen end up running out of food.

To be honest, I kind of felt both robbed and hit with realization like a ton of bricks. My mother and I live by the ideal of "if it's too good to be true, it must be." Waited a year and a half to try it and the cancellation just wasn't expected...at least at first.

The fact that they were pushing to get it out the door is a big mistake programmers make. Not even AAA games like the Pokémon series were immune to issues like that and many issues found in the Scarlet and Violet installment were obvious nightmare fuel for player and programmer alike. (The glitches were eventually patched out.)

In any case, it would have to be a miracle to remake a God game of the caliber that Life By You was striving for.

Personal Quote: "I like my men like my sodas: tall boys." (Zevia has both 12 and 16 oz options)

(P.S. I'm about 5' (150cm) in height and easily scared)
Inventor
#981 Old 20th Jun 2024 at 12:39 PM
I went through the reddit thread (BTW, it' still there). Deventhal's post is filled with inconsistencies but the one that interests me the most is: early on, he writes about LBY as "an indie answer to the aging IP that is the Sims" but later he tells us that the team "did everything we could to prove to [Paradox] we were worth launching, including ... suggesting cutting ties and going indie."

So, if I understand this correctly, they were never indie; they were just behaving like they were. Having combined these with other statements in the post I must admit I feel more sympathy for Paradox CEOs. Now I am just hoping that Paralives is not secretly part of EA. It would be a great strategy, letting the game develop for awhile, then squashing it and saying "See? We are the only ones who can make a proper Sims game!", but I am afraid this exceeds their level of competence.
Field Researcher
#982 Old 20th Jun 2024 at 1:36 PM
They weren't indie no, they were a AA studio being funded by a rich publisher.
Lab Assistant
#983 Old 21st Jun 2024 at 3:11 AM
As excited as I was when this was announced, it's hard to even feel disappointed at this point. Even after two major delays, countless core features were still nowhere on the horizon. In fact, the game was missing so many of the life sim essentials that I'm not sure what the actual gameplay was supposed to be, and honestly I don't think the devs had a clear enough idea on that either.
Mad Poster
#984 Old 22nd Jun 2024 at 10:14 PM Last edited by PANDAQUEEN : 22nd Jun 2024 at 10:46 PM. Reason: Clarity, Addendum, Tweaks and Errors
As far as accounts of the cancellation and shutdown, it may take some time before the whole story is fully resolved and organized for us, because I have seen only part of the stories of those involved.

Sadly, the fact is that, with the rush to Early Access, the missing parts of the menus, interfaces, among other elements, the output reported and otherwise attempting balance of substance and style, gameplay and graphics...well, the story seems rather suspicious in terms of missing elements. I only know as far as I got from the official reports and small elements from social media confessions.

Remember, stories of this type have more than one side and it may be a while before an official "post mortem" of what could have been "The Sims with the brakes cut" in terms of a rival is completed.

Personal Quote: "I like my men like my sodas: tall boys." (Zevia has both 12 and 16 oz options)

(P.S. I'm about 5' (150cm) in height and easily scared)
Field Researcher
#985 Old 22nd Jun 2024 at 11:16 PM
I feel like we would understand LBY a lot more if they had posted a roadmap of their progress and future checklist like many people suggested. I feel like the question always pops up, "What is their focus" and the answer always seems to be modding. Which again, is totally fine, but what else?
Mad Poster
#986 Old 23rd Jun 2024 at 7:05 AM
Quote: Originally posted by kirabook
I feel like we would understand LBY a lot more if they had posted a roadmap of their progress and future checklist like many people suggested. I feel like the question always pops up, "What is their focus" and the answer always seems to be modding. Which again, is totally fine, but what else?


Paralives kept what they did posted on Patreon, within reason, during the early development, prior to them setting a release date.

It would have been more successful to show more than video with commentary and screenshots with text describing what they could. But therein lies their problem. They kept it secretive to the point of "you couldn't figure out what happens next". I know there should be some surprises, but it was like each punch was held back.

So much for betting on that horse!

Personal Quote: "I like my men like my sodas: tall boys." (Zevia has both 12 and 16 oz options)

(P.S. I'm about 5' (150cm) in height and easily scared)
Lab Assistant
#987 Old 23rd Jun 2024 at 7:25 AM
I believe that Rod's team were trying to do more than could be achieved within a reasonable timeframe, and that's what caused them to try and take short cuts which didn't really work out.
It also occurs to me that maybe this project, and the publisher were not a good match.

I was seeing this game as a creative tool rather than another sims game, and it definitely wasn't aimed at everyone.
Mad Poster
#988 Old 23rd Jun 2024 at 8:16 AM Last edited by PANDAQUEEN : 23rd Jun 2024 at 8:23 AM. Reason: Clarity, Addendum, Tweaks and Errors
Quote: Originally posted by kkffoo
I believe that Rod's team were trying to do more than could be achieved within a reasonable timeframe, and that's what caused them to try and take short cuts which didn't really work out.
It also occurs to me that maybe this project, and the publisher were not a good match.

I was seeing this game as a creative tool rather than another sims game, and it definitely wasn't aimed at everyone.


Well, if they still have any assets of Life By You remaining (highly unlikely), they could try again elsewhere and probably not rush it out the door and even do a development diary\roadmap. Less than a year and a half is really pushing people and it's not unlike the Toy Story 2 work load that Pixar did of 4 years' work in 7-8 MONTHS. Besides, with the interactive aspects, when one glitch is defeated, 40 more crop up.

I love having more creative options. Why else is The Sims 3 the one I go back to when I want to play God? Even my parents know that I am one who loves a canvas to work.

Just remember, there are those of us who really enjoy games with custom everything.

Personal Quote: "I like my men like my sodas: tall boys." (Zevia has both 12 and 16 oz options)

(P.S. I'm about 5' (150cm) in height and easily scared)
Forum Resident
#989 Old 23rd Jun 2024 at 4:22 PM
I am a bit surprised by the abruptness of this cancellation, but at the same time this game did not seem like it was going to succeed in any respect. It looked like it was designed first and foremost to be a souped up modding tool, more akin to Garry’s Mod than any sort of engaging life simulator. They seemed so focused on making everything moddable and customizable that they forgot to make good gameplay (or graphics…I could never get past the uncanny low-res Second Life look).

I sincerely hope that Paralives makes it off the ground next year. That’s the game I’m interested in, and I really want there to be some sort of legitimate competitor to The Sims entering the ring before their pay-to-play MMO thinly disguised as The Sims 5 launches

The simmer formerly known as Averex
My Claim to Fame
Forum Resident
#990 Old 23rd Jun 2024 at 8:48 PM
Quote: Originally posted by PANDAQUEEN
Well, if they still have any assets of Life By You remaining (highly unlikely), they could try again elsewhere and probably not rush it out the door and even do a development diary\roadmap. Less than a year and a half is really pushing people and it's not unlike the Toy Story 2 work load that Pixar did of 4 years' work in 7-8 MONTHS. Besides, with the interactive aspects, when one glitch is defeated, 40 more crop up.

I love having more creative options. Why else is The Sims 3 the one I go back to when I want to play God? Even my parents know that I am one who loves a canvas to work.

Just remember, there are those of us who really enjoy games with custom everything.


It was in development likely longer than just a year and half, no way they just twiddled their thumbs thinking "maybe should we make a game or something" for few years before even starting:
Quote:
Life by You was the debut title for Paradox Tectonic, which was founded in March 2019.[2] The game's development was being led by former Executive Vice President of EA Play and Head of The Sims Label Rod Humble.[3] The game was teased on March 6, 2023,[4] and the first full trailer was published on March 20, 2023. The game's early access release was delayed three times, missing its initial release date of September 12, 2023, its second target of March 5, 2024, and its last date of June 4, 2024.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_by_You

I wasn't interested in this game personally since it just looked.... rough. Like Sims 3 but somehow even worse (and me comparing it to Sims 3 isn't a compliment in itself either since I didn't love that game and its look either) and all the features they boasted about were like the opposite of what I'd actually want from a game but I'm still sad it got canceled since competition is always good. Hopefully they'll find someone else who's willing to take the game over or start up indie company to release it eventually even if it's with much smaller budget. The Patreon support way seems to work for Paralives so maybe they should look into that if they're confident that they can pull it off.
Mad Poster
#991 Old 24th Jun 2024 at 12:06 AM Last edited by PANDAQUEEN : 24th Jun 2024 at 1:05 AM. Reason: Clarity, Addendum, Tweaks and Errors
Quote: Originally posted by foxmanic
It was in development likely longer than just a year and half, no way they just twiddled their thumbs thinking "maybe should we make a game or something" for few years before even starting:

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_by_You

I wasn't interested in this game personally since it just looked.... rough. Like Sims 3 but somehow even worse (and me comparing it to Sims 3 isn't a compliment in itself either since I didn't love that game and its look either) and all the features they boasted about were like the opposite of what I'd actually want from a game but I'm still sad it got canceled since competition is always good. Hopefully they'll find someone else who's willing to take the game over or start up indie company to release it eventually even if it's with much smaller budget. The Patreon support way seems to work for Paralives so maybe they should look into that if they're confident that they can pull it off.


Well, if they can add the old spit and polish to the graphics, balance gameplay and modding, and even crowdfunding would help it go further, I see them reviving it. Then again, miracles of such nature should be considered grand.

I may seem optimistic, but there is some realism to me. In fact, the fact of the matter is that it was cancelled last week and it's practically the people involved are practically talking over one another with varying stories is hard to follow. Also, that 3rd delay in the end was like feeling stood up.

Trust me, people have to pretty much be willing to donate time and money to the cause of great gaming... especially when we're talking about graphics and gameplay.

Even then, it's not quite guaranteed.

Personal Quote: "I like my men like my sodas: tall boys." (Zevia has both 12 and 16 oz options)

(P.S. I'm about 5' (150cm) in height and easily scared)
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retired moderator
#992 Old 24th Jun 2024 at 11:06 AM
Quote: Originally posted by PANDAQUEEN
Well, if they can add the old spit and polish to the graphics, balance gameplay and modding, and even crowdfunding would help it go further, I see them reviving it.

The studio and the title belonged to Paradox Interactive, and they announced it cancelled, so I doubt anyone will be reviving it. They'd have to buy the intellectual rights and the files off Paradox Interactive to do that.
Mad Poster
#993 Old 24th Jun 2024 at 7:35 PM
Realistically, I understand that buying IP and the files\assets attached would require a buyer with the money to do so.

In any case, they were impressive. I would have paid money for a final result. But remember, I am aware of the other The Sims Series competitors that are still in progress. I was a donor (a few dollars a month) to the Paralives project until I found myself having to save money for more necessary things.

Either way, I am waiting for the panicking frenzy to calm down and the sources get collected on the real reason for the cancellation. They will need to verify and cite sources if such a document is finished on why they really cancelled.

Personal Quote: "I like my men like my sodas: tall boys." (Zevia has both 12 and 16 oz options)

(P.S. I'm about 5' (150cm) in height and easily scared)
Mad Poster
#994 Old 3rd Jul 2024 at 4:13 AM
Update

As far as I have been told, the company did not want to risk another failure based on time, hence the cancellation as well as being somehow connected to inZOI due to internal behind the scenes connections in terms of corporate (they are involved with a entity known as Tencent and given the choice, they went with inZOI due to aesthetics and ease of access).

As for the ideal of cutting ties and becoming indie, they could revive it, provided they buy the assets back and transfer.

Then again, as an assistant office manager at 19 who taught new hires how to operate shredders, laminators and copiers; the red tape and crowdfunding, as well as finding a new office and a new name for the game as Life by You is still Paradox's name for the game...well, I don't need to tell you that it's hell to revive a cancelled game, and the production purgatory is probably going to make it harder.

But given that crowdfunding is an option in this day and age, thanks to a college student who, decades ago, told people to send pennies to cover his fees into college via mail, (prior to the slang rename of it becoming snail mail)

...well, the donors can donate to the game build efforts and if need be, the group could hire on special employees required for the process. There's also some hefty money the government wants from USA video game development groups, so higher tiers would be required and maybe better incentives beyond behind the scenes sneak peeks.

But this is my brain, practically on fire, not letting me go to sleep since I found what I could on the subject.

Although I wouldn't be surprised that inZOI and Life by You were a competitive bet.

Personal Quote: "I like my men like my sodas: tall boys." (Zevia has both 12 and 16 oz options)

(P.S. I'm about 5' (150cm) in height and easily scared)
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