Hi All,

In my massive quest to totally rewrite the entire MTS codebase to bring it kicking and screaming into this decade, I'm working on the Forums part. To that end, I have recreated the existing "lovebuttons" system; that is, the "Agree", "Disagree", "Love", "Funny", "Helpful" and "Unhelpful" buttons that appear under posts. I know that some people really don't like the "Disagree" button, primarily because you can't see who has actually disagreed (or any other button) with the post.

I would like to hear some feedback on these buttons. So far I have some options here:

1) Keep them as-is. Who clicked what button is invisible except to staff.
2) Remove them entirely (ie no lovebuttons at all)
3) Make who clicked what visible to the post owner (and staff).
4) ?? Other suggestions

Feedback would be appreciated!

Thanks

I like these buttons, but would appreciate some transparency as to who clicked what. This may prevent some of the 'revenge disagree' posts we are seeing, where someone posts something like 'this is what my sims did today' and three people disagree, just because that person said something they didn't like somewhere else.

One of the things about having everything visible is that it could cause "drama" because of the exact reason you gave - but I guess at least it would make people think twice about actually clicking, and then trying to hide it.

I'm only here for the drama!

But really, I see your point, I hope others will comment what they think too.

I can't remember that last time I used the buttons. If they went away entirely, my feelings wouldn't be hurt in the slightest. That being said, I do think it would be 'entertaining' to see who clicks on them. While I agree there may be drama, I suspect there would be some second thoughts before people engaged in the disagree alligator rolls they've been able to get away with for a long as I've been here.

I always use the Helpful or Love buttons over in the WCIF section, so that people know their efforts to locate hard to find CC are appreciated by others. Other buttons I use depending on what i feel about the post that is presented. I don't always feel like replying, or sometimes don't actually have the time, so I'll only click a reaction button. When I'm able, I choose a button and reply with a worded response as well.

Disagrees don't bother me, whether they're real or just trolled and I don't need to see who has clicked it. Everyone disagrees with someone else at some point in their life, I've never understood why people get so worked up over the disagree button. As far as I am aware disagrees don't impact your forum standing or ability to post, or anything like that, it's just someone disagreeing with your opinion or something. And if they're trolling by just pressing it for nothing, then you know what they say about small things amusing small minds.

I myself am not fussed if the buttons show who pressed them if it comes to that, as I'm sure if staff can see who is continually pressing inappropriate buttons on a post they will deal with it. In my own opinion, I'd prefer that all the buttons be kept as they are. The official forums went through this entire debacle time and time again over people crying about the disagree button. Some people seemed utterly unable to understand that it is a disagree button and not a dislike button. They also took away the LOL button because people were paranoid they were being laughed at. I'd like to think that a more adult oriented forum like this one could handle reaction buttons that we have, rather than removing them in case someone has their feelings hurt over it.

From where I'm sitting, the problem with the disagree button is it causes drama in and of itself.

There will be a discussion about something, somebody will give a unpopular opinion which leads to the disagree button being by X amount of people. Depending on who is participating in said discussion, the whole thread can be completely derailed by arguments about who clicked the disagree button. This can and often leads to others jumping in to announce they clicked some other button to counter the disagree button and so on.

There has been problems with the funny button. People would go around clicking the funny button whether something was funny or not just so they could earn a badge which again derailed a conversation because people were annoyed by people clicking the funny button for things that are / were not funny. Example: Somebody mentioned a family member died. Because nobody could see who was clowning with the funny button on said kinds of posts, the clowns piled on and clicked the funny button more when others complained about it.

Eliminating the buttons removes all of this. Leaving them but allowing people to see who clicked what may also act like a form of prevention of both examples I mentioned above or not. I think it would depend on the person. If somebody is that determined to derail a thread, they can and will find other ways if they've always hidden behind their anon button clicking.

I also raise my hand for the removal of anonymity on the buttons. I just nod back when somebody thanks me in person. In the same manner, with just through a button, I'd like to give that kind of gesture too via the 'love' button..

Hrm, maybe I didn't word the last portion of my post very well.
I am not fussy if the post lists who clicked what button, I just don't advocate for the removal of any buttons, that's all.

There is drama already with the disagree button, isn't it? And yes, to a lesser degree with the funny button as well. I would think it's clicked a lot by only a few people, and just occasionally by most others. I get that there is not always time or mood for a proper post (that's what I love the buttons for), but anonymous negativity is not helpful at all. If you disagree, take your time to give a reason. Some thrown-in negativity does not lead anywhere. So, even more than knowing who disagreed I'd like to know why they disagreed.

I still vote for removing anonymity as to reduce trolling at least a bit.

Some more suggestions/thoughts:

• remove only the disagree button
• don't remove it, but add a pop-up mandatory text field which requires giving a reason. No reason - no disagree. While this defies the advantage of a simple button, it would reduce drama. And maybe it would move the discourse to a more constructive one again. Or at least make the trolling more obvious. Instead of a text field maybe a bullet-point list offering a few standard reasons (see below, renaming).
• there could be a limit as to how often you can click that button in a thread/on site. Why come here if everything is just crap? Go troll elsewhere.
• rename the disagree button to something else. Something, that would indicate more of a reason for rejecting this post. Are the stated facts/solutions outdated? Is it not a solution to the OP's topic/off-topic? Or name it "I just want to troll". Not helpful either, but at least transparent.
• enable it in chatter sub-forums only, not in creator's discussions or help sections etc.

Well, I've been absent for a while due to life getting in the way (insane amounts of overtime, moving house etc.) but I always come back, both to Sims 2 and Mod the Sims. I've been a member a few years now.

I've used the forums for Sims and Off Topic, both are helpful and people here tend to be kind, which is lovely. I'm also old enough to remember dial up internet, so I've been on a few forums.

I like being anonymous, and receiving anonymous feedback for kind of the same reasons. If you go on a forum enough, you get to know people a bit, and can make friends or even just like people. However, if reactions were not anonymous I can forsee problems in people being hurt by 'why has my friend Disagreed or just not reacted to my post' or the opposite, accidentally offending someone else by your reaction or lack of reaction.

In real life, people know what is happening in your life, such as being bereaved or heartbroken, but internet friends may not know and wonder if you are ignoring them or have left for good.

I've had times where getting some 'loves' or 'funnys' have made my day and made me feel understood.

As for the Dislike button specifically - I think it is only useful if there is a reason attached really. If you are in Off Topic and pour your heart out, a Dislike can sting. You could have said "Why did this awful thing happen, did I deserve it or am I an ok person with bad luck?" So a Disgree out of context could mean you don't deserve it, or that you're a bad person. If you are posting in Sims or gameplay etc. someone could Disagree for a technical reason, risk of corruption, preferred software or anything else really, so in that case a reason is more helpful too.

So I would say keep them as is, except perhaps prompt people to give a reason for Disagree - perhaps a drop down, although that could lead to too many options. But for Off Topic you could have 'because we care about you' or 'I think you were harsh on the other person' or something else. And for Sims you could have 'I use another method' or 'That could cause corruption' or 'I have an easier way, it is...'.

You all raise some good points. With regards to those saying that Disagree needs a reason, I think it would be a lot of maintenance in terms of adding or maintaining what the reasons are - per forum or group of forums. I like to think of the buttons as basically like the Reactions system on discord, but with words rather than just simple emojis.

I think having the button presses be public does mean people can ask "Why did you disagree with me?" and start a dialogue. Or they get butt-hurt instead, either way. :P

If you disagree/agree enough with a post and feel the need to say something other than a simple disagree/agree, there's a whole reply system already available. There's no need to make a second way to post on top of that. Either use the buttons or make a post. Otherwise it's just a bunch of unnecessary clutter. Let them just be reaction buttons.

I find the buttons alright to have, if there's a post I want to react to but don't have anything much to say, clicking whatever button fits best does the trick. The buttons we've got now are fine.

I'm neutral to whether the answers should be anonymous or public, though. There's arguments for and against. Some people prefer being anonymous and only use the reaction buttons instead of posting (but not for trolling). Those likely would use the buttons less or not at all if names were public. Then again, those who are using the disagree button for trolling purposes probably would think twice when going on disagree rants. And then there are those who can't for the life of them understand WHY people can disagree with them over a topic, and NEED to start arguments, even if there's just one or two disagrees - it's possible this kind of needless discussion would be ramped up, not toned down.

The "Disagree" button doesn't necessarily mean someone hates the post, but maybe just disagrees with some points made. I think people sometimes forget that disagreeing about something can be perfectly fine, and it's alright to have different opinions, as long as it doesn't evolve into a full-on fight or attacks toward a person.

If it is important to the person who clicks disagree WHY they clicked it, they have the option to make a post. If they're just trolling the button, they likely won't post. Single disagrees are rarely anything to worry about for those who are sensitive to that particular button.

That was my point though, that people were doing just that to at least two members I can think of. At one point, every post that these people made got several disagrees (even when they were posting something like, 'I am building a new world', I mean how can you disagree with that, unless you live with that person and know for a fact that they didn't ). After a while these members became aware of this, and were quite upset. If it were transparent that it was just the same three people disagreeing with every single post that they wrote, then at least they could just put those people on block and forget about it.

We need a 'like' button. Sometimes you just don't 'love' something strongly enough. XD

That's what I use the agree button for and sometimes I use the "helpful" button if somethings interesting. It makes sense in my head.

But what if it's not something that you agree with?

Then I probably wouldn't like it either

Not sure if this would bring more trouble than worth to the whole button system, but perhaps an unhelpful button? I do see it available on reply posts to a help thread. But sometimes, I feel like it would serve more justice to press unhelpful on someone than a straight-up disagree.

For example, I remember once pressing a disagree on a post where someone was outlining their gameplay style. I realize it makes no sense to disagree to someone's play style, however, they did call all the disagreers out and I responded, stating that I don't think that their post necessarily contributes to the discussion in question. It's sort of like, if you see a thread on the internet that says, "What's your favorite color?" and the reponse is, "oh no, sorry, I'm colorblind. I don't believe in colors at all! I feel like the shades of gray don't get appreciated enough!" - sure, it's a valid response, and I don't disagree with them about the shades of gray part - but I feel like that statement serves no purpose in that particular thread where all I want to see are PNGs of pretty colors! Hence, the unhelpful button might suit a better purpose, because the disagree button is the only available reaction with a negative connotation.

The problem is, the disagree button's like a car horn - even less than that. Every person gets a chance to honk at someone - but only once and of fixed duration; half a second. There are two problems that lie behind this issue: firstly, how does the honker feel? Were they cut off? Are they simply pissed off? Or is it more like, "I'm coming at an awkward angle at you and you may not see me; please notice me while manouvering." Secondly - and more important - how did the honked-at person perceive the honking? More often than not, it's the "what the fuck do they want??? Assholes," despite the honker initially maybe just being there, existing on the road, contributing to a conversation... you name it.

The OPs of help threads could also be marked as unhelpful, if they just type, "my game broken i followed every faq just make my game work my sim's graev is gon3." Though, I do see the problem of forum members perceiving the community as rather hostile if we started doing that; but disagree's already there and people weren't so reluctant on pressing that one either.

I have a feeling all the existing 5 buttons carry hidden meanings that (only) some of us acquired and interpret in a similar way. For example,

If I were to ridicule someone, I'd combine disagree + funny. Don't know why. But, I most certainly wouldn't funny an ad hominem post.
If I were to react positively on a fact that's not new/when I've been ninja'd, I'd agree instead of helpful.
If someone posts something that's new to me, I click helpful.
If I wanna be like, I'm so gosh darn happy to see you post, I'd click agree and love, even though they're not necessarily presenting a fact in their post/something agreeable.

And...

someone's an ass/yelling/posting literal nonsense/says something that I'd immediately know wouldn't be a solution to a problem in question/etc - to me that's a disagree, the only "bad" button.

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Of course, we could go the other way, like Apple with the family emojis: just a simple upvote/downvote system, similar to Reddit, where the good vs bad reactions are in level, instead of being 4 good/happy reactions and only one bad.

Personally, it affects me less if I know who presses the button, I can usually get an idea of ​​the user's tastes and why they don't agree with me, so it bothers me much less if I already know where it's coming from.

I also like to see who supports me or has a positive attitude in general.

I don't know, some believe that without anonymity discussions would start. But perhaps transparency will save unnecessary drama or coordinated attacks. Time will tell.

The funny button is probably the button I use the most when something makes me laugh or something seems ironically funny to me like "the sims 4 are great and I bought all the packs" obviously I have to give that funny button. xd

To me, at least, it doesn't make sense to call someone's post unhelpful just because you don't see any value in it. Other people may see value in it. If we disagree with everyone who slightly derails a thread then there would be more disagrees than anything else lol.

I don't like to disagree unless I find a post factually wrong or actually offensive. Other people's opinions are none of my business, even if I think they're silly.

Maybe we should just get rid of the disagree button. If you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all, kind of thing.

I admit that I am one of the people who gets frustrated with a disagree when I can't see why they gave me one. Someone gave me one recently because I tried to help them and they didn't understand the advice I'd given. It annoyed me that they disagreed when the advice was legitimate and they realised that as soon as someone explained it to them.



I admit that I have used funny as a disagree when I think that someone is being ridiculous, yet I know that they are intending to be serious. XD

@Charity Well, being funny is also an act of maturity, instead of getting angry and torturing myself, I laugh. It's healthier. xD

Although it can obviously be offensive depending on how it is used.

I like the who button.

The end.

Wow, there's really no more hiding behind the buttons. I love it! (the incident where I was mistakenly identified as a disagreer shall happen no more.. )
A little bit of a feedback though, some of the usernames in the who? page are barely readable when viewing using the bootstrap slate theme..

Ooh, good catch- it shows as black on very dark grey. @Tashiketh may like to see that.