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Sounds great in general. A few specific comments:
Vei and Nal are both POV characters (well, technically just Vei, but the telepathy thing means that the narrative drifts between the two) and they're both very important to the plot, but they're deuteragonists. |
Wait, am I misunderstanding you, or are you saying that the protagonist is someone else? And if so, who?
Polloi are shapeshifters who feed on sexual energy - but only from humans. They usually pretend to be human, because that makes things easier on them. Humans pretty much hate them, though they'll only kill the ones caught pretending to be human. It is possible for a human to turn into a Polloi, which makes humanity even more paranoid. The only reason they weren't massacred when they were first discovered was the intervention of the Sidai. |
So is the feeding process actually harmful, or are the humans just paranoid bigots?
The stars are, basically, the stars, except sentient. They sit in the vast emptiness of space, with no contact with others and no human needs like sleep or food. They spend their long lives acting as philosophers. There are four star gods, representing the four stages of a star's life: birth (nebula), life (normal star), dying (red giant), and death (black hole or brown dwarf). |
A brown dwarf seems like an odd choice. I mean, the bigger ones do have lifespans, but for the most part, brown dwarfs are more like stillborn stars. I'd think a white or black dwarf would make more sense.
Several hundred years before the main action, the main characters' country - Country A - was a great land, divided by a mountain range. Along that range is an active volcano, and the Sidai capital city hovers over it. However, there was an incident involving several ambassadors which culminated in one of Country A's ambassadors claiming that the Sidai murdered his daughter, and a Sidai ambassador killing him after he allegedly tried to kill her children. The Sidai then smashed up half the country, because said children happened to be fathered by their emperor and because the thought of hurting children tends to make them go berserk. Because of that, Country B invaded. They conquered most of the country, but the remaining half was able to defend the mountain passes until the country recovered. Still, Country B often tries to attack Country A, but they can't get through the passes. Defending the passes is very costly, though. As you can imagine, Country A is not fond of the Sidai or Country B. |
Are those names placeholders, or are the countries actually named that?
The two main protagonists are a boy and his sister, who were raised in the rural regions of Country A. |
What species are they? I don't think you mentioned.
And that's when the real problems start. The four gods are stuck in human form, which means that they are experiencing emotion for the first time. Before, they never actually enjoyed their jobs, they just did them because that's what they did. Now, they start to feel happy at performing their duties, so of course they want to do them more often. That is a bit of a problem when they have phenomenal power and the emotional maturity of a toddler. |
Would I be right in guessing that sealing them away somehow or killing them would mess things up for the stars, and make things even worse?
Might as well contribute some more detail on my own stuff. Warning: there's a lot.
So, I suppose I ought to explain my story's interpretation of the fae.
They're a single species. There aren't a bunch of different varieties. They're actually a parallel evolution of humanity… sort of. They didn't evolve from primates. Actually, they didn't evolve at all; they're the result of interbreeding between several different alternate versions of humanity in the distant past. But at least one of those was a form of sapient ungulate. How does a hoofed animal end up with biology almost identical to that of humans? Blame the infinite pool of universes they were drawn from. Anyway, the point is, the sídhe are our close relatives. That said, you wouldn't mistake one for human.
They don't have a lot of racial differences. They have jet-black skin, hair and eyes. Well, there are some exceptions as far as the hair goes, but I'll get to that in a bit. They have sharp claws on their hands, and hooves instead of feet. What kind of hooves, I'm not sure. There's reasonable precedent in mythology for either horse-like hooves or cloven hooves. I'm leaning toward saying they have hooves that are horse-like, but with a notch in the front. They may also have tufted tails. I'm torn on that. It could be a racial difference, but I feel like that's a cop-out. I think I also had planned to give them pointed ears, but I'm not sure on that. Is it even a good idea? I feel like if they are pointed, they're also turned at an angle. I dunno. Maybe the ears should be normal. Input welcome. Also, their body language isn't the same as ours. Like your sidai, they have the whole teeth-bearing thing. I'd like to have other differences in that respect, as well, but I haven't been able to come up with any. The sídhe lifespan is pretty much precisely double the human one. Sídhe blood is based on blue-coloured haemocyanin, which makes copper an essential nutrient, while reducing the importance of iron to a mere trace element in sídhe physiology. In fact, iron is quite toxic to sídhe in large quantities, and even brief, light exposure can cause severe nausea. Most sídhe technology is made from other elements, such as titanium. In general, natural-born sídhe (see below for clarification) have taller and lankier proportions than humans. Given that this trait is associated with Avalon's lower gravity, this would seem to contradict the thick atmosphere required for efficient use of haemocyanin-based blood. However, despite its low mass in comparison to Earth, Avalon does indeed have a substantially larger radius, allowing for a thicker atmosphere.
The sídhe are evolved in symbiosis with magic. They are natural magic-users, and they are very good at it. When one of them dies, their unused magic transfers to the nearest suitable host, which is to say, any living individual of the same species. The thing is, due to the aforementioned quantum-mechanical genetics shenanigans, humans are technically the same species. Which means they're suitable hosts. And that's a problem, because I wasn't being figurative about the symbiosis thing. Sídhe magic is specially adapted for use by sídhe, and humans can't really handle it. I mean, they can handle it in small quantities, but the more they get in their system, the more of a strain it is. At a certain dosage, thankfully the relatively high dosage of about one thousand times that of the average amount held by a single sídhe, the magic overloads the system and basically transforms the human into a sídhe. These individuals, while rare on Avalon, are considered to be full citizens, unlike normal humans. However, they're at the lowest possible social class. Hair color is one trait which doesn't change, so if the human had a hair color other than black, the sídhe will, too.
The sídhe worship Hecate. Yeah, it's a bit uncreative, but what can I say? I love the triune goddess archetype, and she's associated with a lot of the same things as the fae. Anyway, similar to Christianity, the sídhe observe a doctrine of trinity; Hecate has three aspects, the maiden, the mother, and the crone. These are less descriptions of their natures as they are of their roles; the whole immortal thing means that the different aspects only vary slightly in apparent age. That said, they do vary in appearance, and there's a good reason for that. Though it's not the doctrine most believe, the three aspects of Hecate are actually three separate, closely-connected individuals. Their real names are respectively Korë, Aurora, and Cardea. Their true natures are a bit of a spoiler, and also a bit bizarre, and it sort of ties into the whole chosen one thing I mentioned. I'll explain more in another post. And if the first thing you're thinking in response to that is that they're the protagonists, no, they're not. It's actually much weirder than that. The sídhe religion strongly prohibits lying. Originally, this was simply a general caution against all forms of dishonesty, but it got mangled over time so that lying outright is absolutely forbidden, whereas dishonest truth-telling is fine. This does have some bizarre effects on their culture, though. The sídhe have no exaggeration or figurative language. They are painfully literal. Similarly, their art sucks. Fiction is, when not outright forbidden, strongly looked down upon. Their music is also wildly different from ours, but that has less to do with their religious beliefs and more to do with cultural differences. They tend to like human music, when it doesn't offend their sensibilities.
Through some form of religious ritual I haven't bothered to figure out, each sídhe is at some point in their life assigned a true name. Use of this name pretty much gives absolute command over them, by a combination of magic and cultural conditioning. As such, they generally share it with no one. In the incredibly rare instance that they should share it with someone, that someone is only a truly close and deeply trusted friend. It is customary in such circumstances for the sharing to go both ways, in order to provide insurance against misuse. Incidentally, Allison's true name is Mairwen.
Sídhe society is headed by the Ainé, a sídhe word which translates to oracle-queen. The Ainé is always female; this may have some causal link to the matriarchal nature of sídhe society. In ideal circumstances, the Ainé can speak directly to the goddess from any of several sacred locations, the most sacred of which is the Dawn Temple at Starpeak, a butte which lies at the heart of the Eosian desert, far to the west of the capital. She can also commune indirectly with the goddess at any time. However, the link to the divine has been fading for the sídhe over the past million years (the sídhe are an old people; I'll get to that later). The sídhe have only been able to theorise about the cause of this, but it is in fact largely due to the moral decline of their society.
The Ainé's identity is determined by lineage, but not biology. The line can be passed down to adopted children, and individuals marrying into the family receive it, as well. The family of the Ainé is respected, and should the only heir to the line be a male who chooses to take only male lovers, the line may skip a generation. At certain times in Avalon's history, there has been no Ainé for several generations straight. On the other side of the coin, however, any female who marries an Ainé shares the role with her spouse. Having three concurrently reigning Ainés is traditionally seen as a sign of good luck.
The role of Ainé-miku, or oracle-queen to be, can be held by various individuals, including the Ainé's daughter(s), fiancée(s), and younger sister(s). While not commanding the respect of a true Ainé, an Ainé-miku is seen as having the protection of the goddess, and is thus still greatly respected.
The Ainé is considered to be infallible. We're not talking like the pope here, where it's just at certain times; the Ainé is pretty much worshipped, and seen as a borderline deity, herself. There is one glaring exception to the whole infallibility thing, but I'll get to that when I discuss Avalon's history.
The Ainé is also an extraordinarily powerful magic user, with magic hundreds of times more powerful than that of an ordinary sídhe. The most powerful ones in history, including Allison's mother Agrona, have been known to attain ever greater power…
Holy crap, I was going to get into the history, but it's getting late, and that gets into a discussion of the astrophysics, as well. To heck with it; I'll save it for another post. This one is too long as it is.
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Vei and Nal are secondary protagonists, I guess. I don't think I should have written that when I was that tired. They are Sidai. The protagonists would be the human brother and sister, the soldier and the queen.
Saving the Polloi question for the end, because it's long.
Dang it. You're right, I meant a white/black dwarf.
Placeholders. Nothing's actually named yet, except the species. Vei and Nal are only named because I was working on the language for the Sidai.
I did say that Country A is human, right? Well, I guess it's implied. But yeah, they're human. The Sidai only live in their own cities because most of the planet is too cold for them - the Sidai capital city floats above a volcano in the mountain range in/by Country A. Vei and Nal can come out because of technology, but those are special circumstances.
And for sealing the gods away or killing them - short answer is that they can't.
Long answer: humans don't entirely understand how gods work. Trying to understand shreds their brains. And I mean that entirely literally. If someone tries to figure out how the gods work and they're unlucky, they go insane and say a set of words that will cause the insanity to spread to anyone within earshot. And then their brains melt out of their ears and they die.
(The Sidai, however, do know exactly how the gods work - and why humans go insane and the words that will induce it.)
They were only able to bind the star gods with the help of one of the remaining gods, and by getting half the country together to fuel the process through worship. Considering that it was outside of her domain, it's extremely lucky that they were able to pull it off. (Except not really, because the Sidai were indirectly helping.)
But sealing them away isn't possible. The reasons why are spoilery, and... well, there's not really a good way to explain this.
Have a metaphor: you can turn water vapor into water, but water can only be made into things that have hydrogen and oxygen. You can't turn it into chlorine without altering the basic structure of the atoms. To put a god in a position where it is harmless is to turn it into something that is not a god. You can turn it into a different type of god, but you can't make it not a god, because of the basic nature of gods.
As for killing them all? That would mean completely draining them of energy. They're fueled by worship, so the only way to really kill them is to kill almost everything that worships them. Since they're getting energy from humans, that would mean killing all humans. And even then, Death can use the souls of the dead as power.
Not to mention that if all humans die, that breaks the bindings and sends them back to the stars. The problem is that the situation is only severe enough to do that once Death is insane - and because she's insane, she'll try to destroy the universe regardless of whether humanity is dead. So everyone is dead and the universe is still screwed.
Now for the Polloi.
The feeding process is kind of harmful, but in a negligible way. It does shave a few days off your life per feeding, but it's more pleasurable than regular sex since they feed through inducing orgasm - the stronger it is, the more energy they get - and so they have the ability to naturally enhance the sensations. ("At least s/he's not a Polloi" is a common euphemism for bad sex.) Because of that, they tend to be very attentive lovers, in order to maximize their partner's sexual pleasure and the amount they can feed on. So there are always thrill-seekers who will allow themselves to be fed on, even knowing the consequences.
However, humanity's concern is more the shapeshifting part than the feeding itself. While their natural form is pretty distinctive (I believe I mentioned the tails, for one thing, but they also have extremely pale skin, white hair, and bright blue eyes), they can make themselves look exactly like humans. In fact, the way the local cultures discovered they existed was when a Polloi lost the strength to stay shifted while he was confined in jail - they'd been posing as humans for decades before one of them slipped up. And they can perfectly mimic specific people, as well. Imagine spending an unusually pleasurable night with your significant other, only to find that your SO never came over. That has been known to happen in their world.
Thing is, only a small percentage of the population does that - about 10%, which is higher than the percent of real-world rapists in the US (somewhere between 5% and 10%), but it's actually lower than the percent of human rapists in their world.
Still, a much larger percent do impersonate humans for a lot of other nefarious reasons, assassination or framing being the most common. That's partly because they're naturally suited to it and partly because they can't get many other kinds of work, and they do still need money to function in society.
Then there's the way they reproduce. It's based off of incubi and succubi: specifically, the tradition that says they're the same beings. A Polloi gathers sperm from sex and holds it in their body until part of their essence is transferred over - a "spark". Then they fertilize a human egg with that the usual way. (They can tell when humans are fertile and even improve human fertility during sex.) The baby is born physically human, but later in life, a Polloi can perform a ritual to change that human into a new Polloi. A human with a spark has a 50% chance at passing the spark on to their children. If both parents have a spark, then there's a slim possibility they'll give birth to a baby that's physically Polloi. (It's also possible with just one sparked human, but it's incredibly rare.) That kills the mother, since the baby sucks away the mother's life in order to survive until it's old enough to feed for itself. About a quarter of the humans in the area around Country A has a spark.
The species is pretty much the epitome of sexual paranoia fuel.
Related to the above, the king in Country C was changed into a Polloi shortly after he ascended the throne. That was actually a deliberate attempt by the Polloi to take control of one country. (The previous king had been extremely harsh to Polloi. He also had a lot of trouble with fertility. Unfortunately, his wife got the blame for it while he started looking around to find a new wife and sleeping around. She was not happy about that, but she did believe it was her fault. A Polloi had a proposal for her: he could make sure she got pregnant if she agreed to help stop the oppression. She agreed, but didn't plan to follow through - though that wasn't the real reason for the proposal. The Polloi then got some of the king's sperm, went through a "ritual to enhance fertility" with the queen, and a baby ensued. Less than twenty years later, the old king died, the new king took the throne, and then got changed - along with a significant percent of the country's nobility. In order to remain the king, he had no choice but to change the laws.)
I wouldn't say that the Polloi are any worse than an oppressed minority lashing out or than humanity in general. But yes, bigotry was one of the things I had in mind while formulating that. There's plenty of that to go around, actually. The local humans and Sidai hate each other - there are human cultures, mostly the ones that don't smile, that get along with the Sidai just fine - and while the Sidai like the Polloi, they think of them more along the lines of pet chimpanzees or small children.
That also has a lot of effects on the humans around them, too. In the other post, I said that the queen discovered some unethical practices to raise funds. One of those was accusing unpopular people without heirs of being Polloi pretending to be human, so that they could be locked away or executed and the state could take their money and lands. And humans can be accused of being Polloi for being too good at sex or for sleeping around too often. Of if someone else notices a new mole on the person. Or if that person looks suddenly different or their voice changes due to illness.
Bigotry was one thing, but the witch hunts and the Red Scare were also in my mind.
Albinos are also common targets.
And, similar to the demons they were based on, babies born from infidelity are nearly always blamed on Polloi.
Now, ask me about the Sidai. That'll probably be longer than the description of your sidhe.
Anyway, on to your story.
Strongly influenced by Greco-Roman mythology, eh? Though it's a little strange that the maiden is the Greek goddess of death/maidenhood, the mother is the Roman goddess of dawn - and there's a plain named after the Greek goddess - and the crone is the Roman goddess of hinges.
Weirder, you say? Let me take a guess, then. The three individuals have reincarnated into body parts of the third protagonist. Kore is her hymen, Aurora is her left nipple, and Cardea is her kneebone.
You definitely did a lot of research and put a lot of thought into this, and it shows.
When you say turned at an angle, do you mean sticking out like this?
(Incidentally, when I did a search for pointed ears, the MTS download was on the first page.)
I think something like that could make them look more demonic, if that's what you're going for. Maybe you could make them furry and give them a wider range of motion, too. You could also do with something completely different. One species in my sci-fi series doesn't even have ears. (They're fish people.) I don't know, but if you're making them that different, why would they have normal ears? I'd find that weirder than anything else you could put on them, but maybe that could work to your advantage.
For different body language, you could look at animals and what they do. My Sidai are partly based on cats. Your sidhe are part equine, so maybe you could work some of that in? Especially if you give them a lot of ear mobility.
So if I understand you right, Allison's mother is killing other sidhe for their power?
My MTS writing group, The Story Board
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Vei and Nal are secondary protagonists, I guess. I don't think I should have written that when I was that tired. They are Sidai. The protagonists would be the human brother and sister, the soldier and the queen. |
Wow, I was really off. I thought they were the same.
Dang it. You're right, I meant a white/black dwarf. |
You might also want to consider bringing neutron stars into that. For one, they're a pretty common form of stellar remnant; for another, pretty much all neutron stars spend a decent chunk of their lives as pulsars, and I would think that cosmic lighthouse beacons have some strong symbolic potential.
Placeholders. Nothing's actually named yet, except the species. Vei and Nal are only named because I was working on the language for the Sidai. |
Wait, are you constructing an entire language, Tolkien-style?
I did say that Country A is human, right? Well, I guess it's implied. But yeah, they're human. The Sidai only live in their own cities because most of the planet is too cold for them - the Sidai capital city floats above a volcano in the mountain range in/by Country A. Vei and Nal can come out because of technology, but those are special circumstances. |
That was actually a point of confusion for me. I meant to ask what the demographics of the countries were.
Also, when you said it was floating above a volcano, I totally pictured Ganon's castle from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Somehow, I don't think that's what you were going for.
Now, ask me about the Sidai. That'll probably be longer than the description of your sidhe. :D |
Sure, let's hear it.
Strongly influenced by Greco-Roman mythology, eh? Though it's a little strange that the maiden is the Greek goddess of death/maidenhood, the mother is the Roman goddess of dawn - and there's a plain named after the Greek goddess - and the crone is the Roman goddess of hinges. |
I think that with Aurora, I was going for a creation deity sort of thing, with dawn as a metaphor for beginnings. That's also why it's the Dawn Temple. I'm honestly not sure about Cardea, though. It's possible that I was for some reason associating her with magic? Let me check Behind the Name. Okay, unless I was thinking change=death, I have no idea. It's possible I was using the association with doors as a creation metaphor, but why would I apply that to the crone? I mean, I know when I used the same name later on in the Scumthorpe thing, I was trying to use the association with Janus to hint at the character's true nature, but I'm not even sure what I was going for here. Unless…
Holy crap, I got the order backwards, didn't I? Korë was supposed to be the crone, wasn't she? Cardea was a lame attempt to come up with something better than Persephone, who the mother goddess theorists use for the role. To heck with it; I should just use Proserpine and be done with it. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.
Weirder, you say? Let me take a guess, then. The three individuals have reincarnated into body parts of the third protagonist. Kore is her hymen, Aurora is her left nipple, and Cardea is her kneebone. |
Okay, not quite that weird.
You definitely did a lot of research and put a lot of thought into this, and it shows. |
I'm glad to hear that. It's the idea I've put the most time into, by far. Well, my other fantasy idea which I have yet to share here has a lot that's gone into it, too, but I prefer this one.
When you say turned at an angle, do you mean sticking out like this? (Incidentally, when I did a search for pointed ears, the MTS download was on the first page.) I think something like that could make them look more demonic, if that's what you're going for. Maybe you could make them furry and give them a wider range of motion, too. You could also do with something completely different. One species in my sci-fi series doesn't even have ears. (They're fish people.) I don't know, but if you're making them that different, why would they have normal ears? I'd find that weirder than anything else you could put on them, but maybe that could work to your advantage. |
Pretty much. And I kind of am going for a demonic look, although part of that is the fact that our modern image of demons is heavily derived from pagan concepts. I actually forgot to mention something; the sídhe also have a very thin covering of pale fuzz spread across their bodies. I do like the idea of them lacking true ears, as such, but I question the evolutionary practicality (pinnae are pretty important in mammal evolution), and I'm not sure there's really any mythical precedence, which would be nice to have. Oh, right. Another thing. Their eyes are a lot bigger than ours, and kind of almond-shaped. And among their magical abilities is the ability to project glamour. Otherwise, they couldn't exactly pass for human, could they? I'm thinking iron can disrupt it, though, so they need to be careful.
Also, they have a sunlight weakness, but I'll get to that when I discuss the astrophysics.
For different body language, you could look at animals and what they do. My Sidai are partly based on cats. Your sidhe are part equine, so maybe you could work some of that in? Especially if you give them a lot of ear mobility. |
That's my goal. I just haven't found anything good, yet. Other than the whole smile thing, I mean. My inspiration for the idea was something claiming that certain legendary creatures were supposed to have inverted emotional cues, but I wanted to come up with something more complex, not the least because I couldn't find a reliable source for the idea.
So if I understand you right, Allison's mother is killing other sidhe for their power? |
That's actually not what I had in mind, but it's a great idea. She wouldn't kill normal sídhe, but I could totally see her offing former humans for personal gain. Probably all the while convinced that she's cleansing the species. What I was actually hinting at, though, was that
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You might also want to consider bringing neutron stars into that. For one, they're a pretty common form of stellar remnant; for another, pretty much all neutron stars spend a decent chunk of their lives as pulsars, and I would think that cosmic lighthouse beacons have some strong symbolic potential. |
That's a great idea. Death does serve as a psychopomp ordinarily - after a star dies, her (well, she doesn't actually have a gender) duties are to spread the soul across the expanse, which is not exactly an afterlife but close enough. They see themselves as sort of the flowers of the universe, since they exist to brighten it. After they die, they believe that their souls will gleam on, and that filling the universe with their souls will eventually make it shine just as brightly.
Even the black holes have their place in the cosmic dance: the center of each galaxy is a massive black hole and the holes themselves serve to clean up unwanted debris.
Wait, are you constructing an entire language, Tolkien-style? |
Yep. I have some of the syntax set up, as well as some etymology, but it's not speakable yet. Not nearly enough words and those verbs are giving me trouble.
That was actually a point of confusion for me. I meant to ask what the demographics of the countries were. Also, when you said it was floating above a volcano, I totally pictured Ganon's castle from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Somehow, I don't think that's what you were going for. |
Nah. Much spikier, but with the same color scheme.
Think more along the lines of Atlantis from Stargate Atlantis, but in obsidian.
The demographics are around 70% human and 30% Polloi. Sidai do not live in human countries, because there tend to be humans there.
I think that with Aurora, I was going for a creation deity sort of thing, with dawn as a metaphor for beginnings. That's also why it's the Dawn Temple. I'm honestly not sure about Cardea, though. It's possible that I was for some reason associating her with magic? Let me check Behind the Name. Okay, unless I was thinking change=death, I have no idea. It's possible I was using the association with doors as a creation metaphor, but why would I apply that to the crone? I mean, I know when I used the same name later on in the Scumthorpe thing, I was trying to use the association with Janus to hint at the character's true nature, but I'm not even sure what I was going for here. Unless… Holy crap, I got the order backwards, didn't I? Korë was supposed to be the crone, wasn't she? Cardea was a lame attempt to come up with something better than Persephone, who the mother goddess theorists use for the role. To heck with it; I should just use Proserpine and be done with it. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. |
What about Selene? Moons are often associated with fecundity - though that's partly because of the menstrual cycle, which your sidhe may not have, but if Selene was originally fertility and picked the moon thing up later, that could still work - so she could be the mother and push Aurora to maiden, with Kore as the crone.
If you want or don't mind a relatively unknown goddess, you could go with Egeria - minor Roman goddess of water and childbirth - as the mother. There's also Ilithyia, Greek goddess of childbirth.
Heck, you don't even need to go with the traditional female stages. What about Bellona, Suadela, and Kore? You have a goddess of war, goddess of love/seduction/politics, and a goddess of death. That should cover the traditional domains.
Pretty much. And I kind of am going for a demonic look, although part of that is the fact that our modern image of demons is heavily derived from pagan concepts. I actually forgot to mention something; the sídhe also have a very thin covering of pale fuzz spread across their bodies. I do like the idea of them lacking true ears, as such, but I question the evolutionary practicality (pinnae are pretty important in mammal evolution), and I'm not sure there's really any mythical precedence, which would be nice to have. Oh, right. Another thing. Their eyes are a lot bigger than ours, and kind of almond-shaped. And among their magical abilities is the ability to project glamour. Otherwise, they couldn't exactly pass for human, could they? I'm thinking iron can disrupt it, though, so they need to be careful. Also, they have a sunlight weakness, but I'll get to that when I discuss the astrophysics. |
Do they by any chance have horns?
I couldn't find any examples of deities or demons without ears.
If their skin is entirely black, then they definitely would have a weakness to the sun. It'd be very easy to overheat.
That's my goal. I just haven't found anything good, yet. Other than the whole smile thing, I mean. My inspiration for the idea was something claiming that certain legendary creatures were supposed to have inverted emotional cues, but I wanted to come up with something more complex, not the least because I couldn't find a reliable source for the idea. |
Like selkies, who laugh at funerals and cry at weddings?
I got an example from the Sidai. They have a vomeronasal organ, which means that they perform the Flehmen response in order to use it. They curl back their upper lip and inhale through their mouth in order to taste a scent. I have an excellent picture of a tiger doing the Flehmen response.
But this can be a major problem on a human face: curling back the upper lip is basically a sneer, and can make them look disgusted. Even tigers look disgusted when doing it. It's also done by a wide range of ungulates, so your sidhe could possibly have that.
That's actually not what I had in mind, but it's a great idea. She wouldn't kill normal sídhe, but I could totally see her offing former humans for personal gain. Probably all the while convinced that she's cleansing the species. What I was actually hinting at, though, was that
her power levels are over a thousand times that of the average, meaning that when there's an evil plan pileup later on which ends in Sanna's sister Melanie finally killing her off for good, Melanie's in for a rude awakening.
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Ah. I figured you were foreshadowing later events with that information, but I thought it would be Sanna, since she seems to be the one who's going to be in the love triad with a sidhe.
And now we come to the Sidai.
I'm copying and pasting this directly from my notes, so it will probably repeat some information I already talked about and may not make a lot of sense.
Sidai: All people. Dai is the plural for 'person' (dei) and 'si-' is a prefix meaning 'all'. They call humans naldai (flower people) among other things and Polloi are endai (lower/unfinished people).
The Sidai are the oldest race on the planet. They evolved when the world was young and much hotter. They tend to stick around the warmer areas of the planet: above active volcanoes, deep underground near lava tubes, in the deserts.
They are the only race without magic, though they have very advanced technology which can blur the line.
They are ruled by the Anteridai, who are the children and clan members of the children of their emperor, Eri. The Anteridai are godlike beings: they are immortal and have special abilities: healing (accelerated cellular growth; while it is most commonly used for healing, they can also grow tumors if they want to. They can heal themselves or people they touch and they can sense issues with the bodies by touch. They can also perform less-important jobs like growing out hair at an accelerated rate, altering hormonal levels, inducing lactation, or producing more venom.), telekinesis (requires line of sight, though they can use other Sidai to fulfil this requirement), telepathy (they have slightly expanded abilities at non-touch telepathy, but with a touch, they can read minds, rewrite them, puppeteer other people, and even affect physical sensations), and precognition (which only allows you to see possible futures from your own point of view. For instance, if you have a choice of eating two different kinds of food and you see yourself getting sick from one, that won’t tell you if someone else poisoned it, unless you decide you’ll test it in a lab. Then you can see the results of the test before doing it, since you’ve decided to do it. However, there are issues when two precognitives attempt to use their visions to influence their actions regarding each other. The actions caused by their visions inspire more possible futures – so many that it becomes a tangled thicket, which is nearly impossible to make out or glean information from. The effect can be duplicated by a non-precog simply by basing their actions on the precog’s own, which will not be as effective, but it can change the course of a battle.). There is a one-in-four chance of any Anteridai receiving any of these. Their emperor has four and the rest have two. Crosses between Anteridai and othey Sidai tend to have one, though it is forbidden to have hybrids. Other Sidai can become Anteridai, though hybrids cannot.
These abilities can often be combined in an individual for better results. For example, Nal is telepathic and precognitive. While he cannot read human minds at a distance, he can touch them to know. However, if he used his precognition and looks into a future where he reads a human’s mind, he can know what the human is or was thinking. This can give the impression of being able to read minds at a distance. He can also use his telepathy to expand his precognitive range, so to speak: he can only see what he perceives, but if he perceives something through telepathy, then it counts. So he can see what happens in a faraway village by foreseeing the results of himself travelling there and reading the minds of those people.
Their emperor has telepathy strong enough to look through every Sidai’s eyes. This means he is nearly omniscient.
Anteridai act as the rulers, military, and demigods for the entire species. They are typically the ones in charge of government administration. They do all the fighting – why send ordinary people to their deaths when you have people with superpowers and millennia of experience?
There is a rite of passage among Sidai where young adults are sent to another clan for an apprenticeship to learn new skills. It normally lasts ten or so years. This helps them with connections, as well as improves their clan by adding more skilled individuals. The Anteridai also must do this every hundred years, as it keeps them in touch with the rest of the population. They are forced to act like normal people for ten years. Failure means that they are moved to a new location and must start over until they get it right, and they are not allowed to return home until they do.
(Their precognition means that they have foreseen the end of the world. However, they have not seen the details, since human gods interfere with their abilities. This fact has allowed them to deduce that humanity will cause the end of the world. The details they have seen imply that it’s related to the massacre of humanity’s gods, that the entire solar system will be destroyed, and that a black hole will be involved.)
Sidai have clan groups, which may be or may replace family groups. A set of twins leads each clan, though one twin may be dominant. The leader is responsible for maintaining diplomatic relations with other clans, trading, arranging mating, and acting as law enforcement. They do not have ordinary law enforcement; instead, the leader must punish members of their clan as laid down by the laws. Anteridai run checks of all clans periodically; if a clan member has committed a crime and it was not punished – or not punished severely enough – the clan leader is held responsible for the crime. At best, they are charged with negligence of their duties, if they can prove that they had no knowledge of the crime. At worst, they are charged with the same crime and with conspiracy to cover up the crime.
Sex and mating are considered different activities. Male Sidai have heat cycles and females ovulate based on stimulation. If a female is bitten hard in the back of the neck, exposed to the pheromones of a male in heat, and experiences coital lock, she will ovulate, though males are only fertile during heat. They have sex all the time, as it serves as a way of maintaining social bonds and getting to know new people, but mating only happens when the male is interested in having children. Quite a few taboos that apply to mating do not apply to sex. Sibling incest (but not parental incest, due to the power a parent has over their child) is acceptable as long as it doesn’t lead to children, homosexual relations are normal (the vast majority of the population is bisexual), and the age of consent is below the age of parenthood. However, non-consensual relations are strictly forbidden and severely punished.
Sidai have sex with Polloi, but generally not with humans. Humans have a lower body temperature, so they feel like corpses. Polloi can manipulate their body temperature, so this is not a problem. Sidai are not capable of reproducing with either, as Polloi reproduction depends on humans and humans have a different number of chromosomes. There are also mechanical problems: Sidai mating also involves the male reflexively biting the female on the back of the neck; the pressure required to stimulate ovulation would snap the human’s neck. It is not possible for a human to impregnate a Sidai female, since she requires coital lock, which humans can’t perform.
Male Sidai carry the children. After a male impregnates a female, she incubates the zygotes for about a week, though her uterus is not capable of carrying them to term. If the male does not want the children, she simply lets nature take its course and her body flushes out the zygotes. Otherwise, she transfers them to the male’s womb. The womb, to the outside, appears to be a large vertical slit on their stomach. Females have an analogous structure on their own stomachs, which appears to be a ridge on their stomach and turns red when they’ve conceived. (The umbilical cord grows through either the child’s womb or the ovipositor, so they have no bellybuttons.) To transfer, the female lies on top of the male, sliding her ridge in the opening to the womb, and lets gravity and her body push out the zygotes. After that, the womb seals up. Gestation for Sidai is about a year long, and the babies come out more developed than human newborns (especially since they don’t need to squeeze their newborns out through a tiny hole in the pelvis). At birth, the plug in the womb cracks and another Sidai can reach in. A male can give birth by himself, simply by reaching in or allowing the babies to slide out. After birth, the male keeps the babies. He and his twin (unless they agreed to give the babies to another set) raise the babies, and after that, they belong to his clan. The female is not involved in rearing, though she does visit the babies to provide milk. (They’re mammals.) After that, the mother is only considered in terms of prohibitions on mating.
After birth, children are raised away from the rest of the world, though twins are raised together until they begin puberty. During puberty, Sidai children tend to release hormones, which are designed to sort children in a hierarchy and delay puberty in the “weaker” ones. (Some individuals choose to allow this to happen. “Child” actors are often legal adults who have prevented their body from moving on. However, they often die a few decades earlier (they live a few hundred years) due to the hormones, and their bodies deteriorate regardless of their youth.) Preventing children from having physical contact with each other until they’ve become adults allows each child to move on to adulthood and often prevents bullying from peers. It also prevents problems in social interactions caused by the Westermarck Effect. During childhood, they are taught as much as possible to take advantage of their growing brains. After puberty, they are introduced to social life (they are taught plenty of theory beforehand, but this is where they get practical experience).
Sidai normally have twins. This forms the backbone of their society. While humans tend to form families around mating pairs, Sidai form families around twin pairs. They are, essentially, married from birth. It’s possible to “divorce” your twin, but only if there is abuse or severe problems. Twins are not expected to fulfill their partner entirely. Since monogamous relationships are unheard of among Sidai, it’s expected that one will have lovers, whether or not the relationship is working, so it does not cause significant psychological problems.
Because they have twins, Sidai have four breasts (general rule for mammals is about two per average litter). The second pair is located directly below the first, which is where human women have them. The first pair grows significantly during puberty as a sign of sexual maturity. The second stays small until the female conceives or has sufficient exposure to a pregnant male, while the first pair remains constant. Sidai women also have narrower hips than human women, as they do not have to give birth; male Sidai have larger ones to support the weight of the babies. Female Sidai have spikes in their vaginas, which they can retract at will. Male Sidai have prehensile penises, which tend to be thicker as a result of the muscles. They also have a bulb at the base, which expands with enough arousal, causing coital lock. Generally, since it dissolves any telepathic barriers, it is only used with people they trust (or during mating, since they tend to lose control).
Part of their spine is outside their body. While the backbone is in the normal place, there is a ridge of pairs of downward-facing bones which start at the base of the skull and continue down to a floor-length tail. A Sidai can move them from their starting position, which is resting parallel to the spine, outward to provide cover for their back. Past the pelvis, the bones cannot move, and they sit on the skin of the tail. The tail ends in a vaguely egg-shaped club that opens and closes like a flower or a beak. There are four sections which open outwards. In the middle, there is a stinger with paralytic venom. It can take down a humanoid for a few hours. For this reason, clasping tails is a sign of significant trust and traditionally closes diplomatic negotiations. Tails are also the main way (besides telepathy) that Sidai express emotion (flicking upward or repeated upward motions mean happiness; steadily curled up means curiosity or sarcasm depending on context; a stiff, opened tail means anger; flicking from side to side with an open tail is agitation; with a closed tail is excitement (especially sexual, since they tap their tails against their prospect as a means of flirting); dragging against the ground means sadness, exhaustion, or depression). This has caused problems with humans, since they don’t have tails to judge emotions by and do not normally think to check. Polloi do, so they get along better with Sidai. (Their tails, however, end in a large demon point - about as big as a cat - instead of a club).The one emotion that Sidai display on their faces is anger to the point of violence – they grin. They have misinterpreted friendly smiles as declarations of war, and humans have thought extreme anger was a sign of friendliness. The Sidai get along far better with human cultures where smiling is not a friendly gesture. (Vei also uses her eyebrows as a means of conveying extreme disappointment, but that is an affectation.)
Other causes of discomfort when humans and Sidai meet: when Sidai have a conversation, they tend to stand at an angle, so the other person can see their tail clearly. Standing forward is disrespectful, since it is a sign of blatant distrust. Humans, on the other hand, tend to point their chest at the most important thing at the moment. Because Sidai do not point their chests at the human in the conversation and they do not have something that’s more important as an excuse, it feels like a slight.
For Sidai, there is a particular set of greetings that are performed based on the predominant occupation of the recipient’s clan – though the greetings only have to be performed once for per clan per meeting. For Anteridai, the greeting is a show of submission: getting to their knees with their hands behind their backs, and necks stretched out. The Anteridai will press the flat of a blade to the greeter’s neck, and signifies acceptance.
Sidai can digest stone, metal, and glass. These are incorporated into their bones to reinforce them. The bones on their spine and on their tail are typically the color of the most prominent part of their diet. (Vei and Nal eat an obsidian blend, which makes their bones a shiny black. Most Sidai who live by volcanoes do, too, but ones who live in the desert prefer stones found there, like sandstone.)
Sidai legend:
Millions of years ago, when the people were new and crops were newly sown, the planet was visited by the four star gods. They saw the Sidai and recognized them as sentient, as parts of starstuff. They decided to learn more about these new beings. They pulled each Sidai to them, one at a time, and told them that they would grant a wish in exchange for learning about them. Many did so, and made their wish. Some asked for the harvest to come in, some asked for mates or wealth or weapons.
One, when it was his turn, told the gods that he wanted to make the world a better place, to live forever and learn everything there was to know, to hold the world's fate in his hands and nurture it, to become a ruler who would never fall out of touch with his people, to heal the sick and dying, and to have children who would become as great as him.
The gods conferred and granted his wish. His personal name was Eri, and he became the god-ruler of the Sidai because he refused to settle for mediocrity when the opportunity for more was given him. Reach for the highest goals and do not be satisfied until you have become greater than your expectations.
(The legend is mostly fact, since he's still alive and actually does remember what happened. However, he maintains that he was joking with his wish.)
The Sidai mainly worship the Anteridai (though the Anteridai don't really worship themselves - except one narcissist) and the star gods, but there are hundreds of religions and millions of gods to follow, and none of the religions exclude the others. They're responsible for humanity learning of the star gods and kicking off the plot.
That's most of what I have, except the very spoilery stuff.
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What about Selene? Moons are often associated with fecundity - though that's partly because of the menstrual cycle, which your sidhe may not have, but if Selene was originally fertility and picked the moon thing up later, that could still work - so she could be the mother and push Aurora to maiden, with Kore as the crone. If you want or don't mind a relatively unknown goddess, you could go with Egeria - minor Roman goddess of water and childbirth - as the mother. There's also Ilithyia, Greek goddess of childbirth. |
It's possible. To be honest, I was going for more obscure goddesses. Actually, I wasn't necessarily thinking of using goddess names in general; I had hoped to come up with original names. But then I got lazy. I mean, I always meant to use Korë, but the other two were going to be unique. Egeria is an interesting thought, though. Could even use Haumea… though that'd bring yet another mythology into things. Not sure if that's a good idea or a bad one. Plus, she's not as obscure as she used to be, on account of having a dwarf planet named after her. Hmm.
Heck, you don't even need to go with the traditional female stages. What about Bellona, Suadela, and Kore? You have a goddess of war, goddess of love/seduction/politics, and a goddess of death. That should cover the traditional domains. |
That is a thought. My intent had been to use the aforementioned mother goddess theories as inspiration, but I didn't want to use Persephone and Demeter, because they were too well-known, so I meant to replace them with rough equivalents. I just got kind of carried away with the roughness, I guess. Still, I'll look into those possibilities. Actually, though, I can see potential there. See, the goddesses started out as mortals, though it's not a well-accepted idea among the sídhe. I could see Bellona or her equivalent as having come from a warrior background, Suadela or her equivalent as being skilled at social stuff, and Korë as being perhaps a former priestess or something along those lines.
Do they by any chance have horns? |
Actually, no. I think I might have considered it, but I tossed the idea aside. Do you think it would be a good inclusion? I suppose I could compromise and make them sexually dimorphic.
If their skin is entirely black, then they definitely would have a weakness to the sun. It'd be very easy to overheat. |
I hadn't thought of that, but it's a brilliant point. Not only does that make sense, but it brings up another point as well. Hmm… how do I explain this? I'll go into more detail when I have more time, but the idea was that their weakness was specifically to main-sequence stars in particular, which their star isn't (any more). The idea was that it was some kind of magical radiation. But this actually makes perfect sense, now that you point it out; of course dark skin would be an evolutionary advantage where they live! Most of the star's goldilocks zone would be irradiated, so in order for the world to be habitable, it would need to be on the outer edge. That would be colder, and still more irradiated than Earth, making heavy pigmentation a necessity. Of course, on Earth, dark skin is a disadvantage in cold climates, due to the necessity for UV in vitamin D production, but that's Earth and humans. Different world, different species (well, not technically, but still).
Man, I love this thread. It's really useful. Thanks for the input. I hope my own can be helpful.
Like selkies, who laugh at funerals and cry at weddings? |
I'd not be shocked if that was precisely what was being referred to. Sure, they actually said "mermaids", but that's pretty close. Thanks again. Huh. Kinda reminds me of the Green Martians from Burroughs' Barsoom books. They had a really messed up sense of humour and would only laugh at things like horrific violence.
I got an example from the Sidai. They have a vomeronasal organ, which means that they perform the Flehmen response in order to use it. They curl back their upper lip and inhale through their mouth in order to taste a scent. |
Interesting… I may have to nab that one.
Ah. I figured you were foreshadowing later events with that information, but I thought it would be Sanna, since she seems to be the one who's going to be in the love triad with a sidhe. |
It did occur to me the other day, when trying to think of a better ending for the overall plot than the original plan to just kind of trail off into incomplete vagueness, that such a thing might need to happen at some late stage.
And now we come to the Sidai. Sidai: All people. Dai is the plural for 'person' (dei) and 'si-' is a prefix meaning 'all'. They call humans naldai (flower people) among other things and Polloi are endai (lower/unfinished people). |
A name like that is always a good choice. Happens often enough in real life. In one of my sci-fi concepts, I complicated matters by making a telepathic race with a name like that. They didn't really have spoken language, so there wasn't really anything to call them. "The People" wouldn't cut it in normal circumstances, let alone when dealing with an imperialistic race of xenophobic religious extremists. The solution that was settled on was calling them by an ancient derogatory nickname for them, the "Perverters". Or the "Pervs", for short. They didn't like that, of course, but no one cared.
I have to wonder, though, about the names you've assigned to the humans and the Polloi. If given the translations without an inkling of which one they corresponded to, I'd have put them the other way around. Why did they develop those names?
Also, what's your opinion on the debate on capitalising clade names? You seem to be doing it here, and I do find that doing it can ease some ambiguity, but I've also seen it argued that it's grammatically inconsistent, since we don't capitalise human, or really most common names groups of organisms, be it dogs, tabbies, birds, rattlesnakes, what have you. I'm kind of torn on the subject, myself. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.
The Sidai are the oldest race on the planet. They evolved when the world was young and much hotter. They tend to stick around the warmer areas of the planet: above active volcanoes, deep underground near lava tubes, in the deserts. |
How much hotter are we talking, here? Interglacial? Thermal maximum? Freshly solidified crust?
Their emperor has telepathy strong enough to look through every Sidai’s eyes. This means he is nearly omniscient. |
The way you describe him makes him sound like he'd make a great villain, to be honest. Does he ever play an antagonistic role?
(Their precognition means that they have foreseen the end of the world. However, they have not seen the details, since human gods interfere with their abilities. This fact has allowed them to deduce that humanity will cause the end of the world. The details they have seen imply that it’s related to the massacre of humanity’s gods, that the entire solar system will be destroyed, and that a black hole will be involved.) |
Have they made plans for their own survival?
Sidai have sex with Polloi, but generally not with humans. Humans have a lower body temperature, so they feel like corpses. Polloi can manipulate their body temperature, so this is not a problem. Sidai are not capable of reproducing with either, as Polloi reproduction depends on humans and humans have a different number of chromosomes. There are also mechanical problems: Sidai mating also involves the male reflexively biting the female on the back of the neck; the pressure required to stimulate ovulation would snap the human’s neck. It is not possible for a human to impregnate a Sidai female, since she requires coital lock, which humans can’t perform. |
Is that the only reason, or are they genetically incompatible, too?
Female Sidai have spikes in their vaginas, which they can retract at will. Male Sidai have prehensile penises, which tend to be thicker as a result of the muscles. |
Was that by any chance inspired by ducks? I seem to recall reading that they have similar features.
Reproductive biology is pretty much an endless source of weirdness, isn't it?
On a more serious note, though, I have to say, I'm impressed by your devotion to making a fully-formed and believable fantasy race. It's a nice change from the usual stuff. Your worldbuilding in general impresses me.
Sidai can digest stone, metal, and glass. These are incorporated into their bones to reinforce them. The bones on their spine and on their tail are typically the color of the most prominent part of their diet. (Vei and Nal eat an obsidian blend, which makes their bones a shiny black. Most Sidai who live by volcanoes do, too, but ones who live in the desert prefer stones found there, like sandstone.) |
How regularly do they need to do that? It seems like it wouldn't be every day, by any means, but maybe I'm wrong. I do wonder, though: how do their bodies process rock?
(The legend is mostly fact, since he's still alive and actually does remember what happened. However, he maintains that he was joking with his wish.) |
Okay, I have to admit that I find the idea of a semi-mythical figure revealing that his most notable accomplishment was the result of him being a smartass to be hilarious, whether it's true or not.
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Actually, no. I think I might have considered it, but I tossed the idea aside. Do you think it would be a good inclusion? I suppose I could compromise and make them sexually dimorphic. |
I don't think it would affect much whether or not you put them in - horns in real life are mainly weapons or sexual displays for the males of a species. The sidhe can use magic and they're bipedal, so they would probably use that as a weapon instead of headbutting. Sexual displays, maybe.
And then it depends exactly what kind of ungulate they're descended from. A horse wouldn't have horns, but a goat or a deer type would. A fictional type of ungulate, maybe.
They could be entirely vestigial, too. Eh. Guess it depends on aesthetic. You probably have a much clearer picture in your head than I do.
I have to wonder, though, about the names you've assigned to the humans and the Polloi. If given the translations without an inkling of which one they corresponded to, I'd have put them the other way around. Why did they develop those names? |
Because spoilers. :/
Flowers have a strong metaphorical connotation to something the Sidai compare humans to, but they don't want to compare them directly because the real thing is too good for the humans. Flowers also tend to be fragile and short-lived, but flowers are also a metaphor for the ends of their tails - the club hiding a sting. Essentially, they're saying that humans are delicate but can pack a punch.
That would also be why Nal has his name. He's delicate, but powerful - and I sort of noticed some Ophelia imagery around him and decided to strengthen it.
For the Polloi, let's just say that they didn't come into being in the usual way. They're not "complete" because they're not technically a species - they cannot directly reproduce. They're not mutations of humanity, but they're not really a species.
Also, what's your opinion on the debate on capitalising clade names? You seem to be doing it here, and I do find that doing it can ease some ambiguity, but I've also seen it argued that it's grammatically inconsistent, since we don't capitalise human, or really most common names groups of organisms, be it dogs, tabbies, birds, rattlesnakes, what have you. I'm kind of torn on the subject, myself. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. |
I'm mostly doing it because it makes the words stand out. When I write the book proper, I won't capitalize them. When I'm developing the concept, I may need to find some information quickly, so I make them pop out for easy scanning.
How much hotter are we talking, here? Interglacial? Thermal maximum? Freshly solidified crust? |
Not that much, really. They can sit in boiling water without getting burned.
The way you describe him makes him sound like he'd make a great villain, to be honest. Does he ever play an antagonistic role? |
I do have vague plans for a sequel series which pits the Sidai against the humans. The biggest problem with that is that the Sidai are extremely competent, so I don't know if humanity would win without a deus ex machina.
Have they made plans for their own survival? |
They do have plans. (I had to edit a little bit from the notes out there.) They've been working on them for a very long time. The thing is that they need a human for Plan A, and Plan B would mostly just delay the inevitable until they can get Plan A to work, assuming they can.
Let's just say that both of them are extremely ambitious and very relevant to the end of the plot.
Is that the only reason, or are they genetically incompatible, too? |
There are a lot more mechanical problems with them reproducing, including relative body temperature, metal poisoning, getting the zygotes to stick or not, relative genital size, etc. I just thought killing the partner or being unable to get them fertile was enough of an obstacle.
For genetics, they have a lot of similar markers, but not in the right places. Some things involving genetics will work, but not reproduction. They could theoretically make a hybrid in the lab, but that would take a lot of genetic engineering and it would pretty much give them no benefits. They can use precognition to see the results of the project before they do it, but they have no reason to actually create a hybrid.
Was that by any chance inspired by ducks? I seem to recall reading that they have similar features. Reproductive biology is pretty much an endless source of weirdness, isn't it? On a more serious note, though, I have to say, I'm impressed by your devotion to making a fully-formed and believable fantasy race. It's a nice change from the usual stuff. Your worldbuilding in general impresses me. |
Thank you.
For the males, that was actually inspired by dolphins. Ducks have corkscrew genitals, and the female can move her vagina around to make it incompatible with the penis if she wants to. Dolphins, on the other hand, can actually grab things with their penises. They don't often have male dolphins in 'swim with the dolphin' exhibits because they'll grab onto a swimmer's foot and pull them underwater. The females can actually do that, too, but it's easier to keep your foot out of a vagina than away from a penis.
(There's a sentence I never thought I'd say.)
For the females, I was actually thinking how vagina dentata would work in real life. Obviously, real teeth wouldn't work because you'd need a ton of muscles to actually chomp down on someone. The next best thing was shish-kabobing an intruder. They could retract the spikes easily for regular sex, similar to how their stingers work.
How regularly do they need to do that? It seems like it wouldn't be every day, by any means, but maybe I'm wrong. I do wonder, though: how do their bodies process rock? |
Depends on how durable the material is. Once it's on the bones, it stays there and gets slowly worn away. They often sprinkle a small amount of metal on their food because it's tasty, but they get more than they really need.
That's one reason why they often groom their bones. They'll go in to get the coating on their outer bones all smoothed out and pretty. Quite a few will also get patterns carved into the coating. Those last for a few weeks before the growth and smoothing get rid of it.
Sometimes, they'll also eat to make better patterns. For example, eating obsidian for a few decades and then switching to apatite or blue quartz for a while, so the carvings will be black on the outside and crystalline blue on the inside.
They tend to grind up the material before eating, but they can chew it into a powder if they need to (or if they're really angry). The stomach doesn't do much to it. After that, the food goes through the small intestine. Non-biological materials are placed into the blood system, where their blood cells pick it up. The ones with metal go directly into the marrow and drop off the material there. That gets pushed through small pores in the bone. Once all the pores are filled, it keeps getting pushed out until it spills over onto the surface of the bone and eventually coats it. The marrow in the tail and spinal ridge is particularly attractive to metal, since they need the most protection.
They get most of the covering before birth, since they get a lot of it from the umbilical cord.
Okay, I have to admit that I find the idea of a semi-mythical figure revealing that his most notable accomplishment was the result of him being a smartass to be hilarious, whether it's true or not. |
Yeah.
Though it could be a bit horrific if you consider that what happened was a punishment for being a smartass. I mean, he's connected to every single living member of his species. They suffer, he suffers. He even thinks about doing something that causes harm, he feels the pain of the consequences.
But the real story, as I see it so far, is that he came from a poor farming clan shortly after agriculture was invented. His twin died in utero, so he was pretty much shunned, as twins are very important to Sidai culture. At the time, there was a feudal society in place, so he often heard complaints from his parents about the existing infrastructure and often saw people dying from working to meet quotas from the government. That, naturally, leads to thoughts of "If I were in charge".
He was the equivalent of a teenager when the star gods approached the Sidai, and he'd just been tossed out of bed to help with the harvest because there was a blight striking the fields. Then he got snapped up and given the wish. It wasn;t so much a joke as a combination of extreme crankiness and smartassery that got filtered through his memory to become more positive.
First thing he did when he got the powers? Use telekinesis to get all the plants harvested and then go back to sleep. He was kind of dazed and it hadn't sunk in yet. When it did, he freaked out.
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I don't think it would affect much whether or not you put them in - horns in real life are mainly weapons or sexual displays for the males of a species. The sidhe can use magic and they're bipedal, so they would probably use that as a weapon instead of headbutting. Sexual displays, maybe. And then it depends exactly what kind of ungulate they're descended from. A horse wouldn't have horns, but a goat or a deer type would. A fictional type of ungulate, maybe. They could be entirely vestigial, too. Eh. Guess it depends on aesthetic. You probably have a much clearer picture in your head than I do. |
(Tail not visible, not the least because no one has made tufted tail accessories, despite the popularity of Avatar CC…)
Not that much, really. They can sit in boiling water without getting burned. |
I'd say that's quite a bit. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure only extremophilic microbes can do that in real life.
First things first, I've been kind of wondering if I should rename the fae homeworld. I went with Avalon because I couldn't really think of any better option, but I was thinking the other day that I could probably come up with something original that sounded better. I was wondering about Aothr. It alludes to both aether and other, while the vowelless r looks vaguely Norse, and I wouldn't mind bringing Norse culture in to a greater degree since I already have some of it, anyway.
Then again, that wouldn't work as well with the idea I had that Arthurian legend's references to Avalon referred to Hy Brazil, actually the largest portal between the worlds in existence, located in dormancy somewhere in the Atlantic.
Anyway, on to the main thing.
According to sídhe legend, Avalon was created by Hecate in her aspect as the creator unknown billions of years before present day. She sculpted the world from the aether and then created all its life, including the sídhe, and then she went down to inspect creation in person. She set foot on the surface and sculpted a great peak, from which she might see the whole of the land around. She taught the sídhe the essentials of civilisation, handed down the law, and then disappeared, telling the people before she went that she would watch over them, protect them, and advise them, and that her chosen servant could find her when needed by the magic of the sacred grounds upon which she first walked.
The reality is somewhat different. Fleeing a dying universe, the three women who would become Hecate created a new world for their people (well, the third may have been from the world they fled to, but that's not important right now) using the power of the sacred Cintamani. A glimmering jewel as old as the universe itself, Cintamani essentially serves as a universe's debugging tool. It has the power to alter reality with a mere thought, and there is one in every universe. At the direction of their own goddess, the women carried the sacred stone into the new world. As the essence of its home universe, the Cintamani had a strange effect upon being carried into another, younger, universe. The threads of the two reality tangled, and the worlds merged to become one. The goddess then instructed the women to use the stone's power to merge themselves with the akash, becoming immortal guardians of this new world they had created. The various races which inhabited the world lived in peace, and eventually evolved to become one, the sídhe. The fate of the otherworld's Cintamani beyond this point is unclear.
Avalon (or whatever I decide to call it) was a lush and vibrant world, full of life. It orbited a star on the upper end of the main sequence, well within the habitable zone, and was generally Earth-like. The sídhe, or the Old Sídhe, as modern sídhe call them, became extremely advanced over time, eventually becoming capable of marvelous feats of planetary engineering. But there was a problem. Their host star was reaching the end of its lifespan, and not even their greatest technology or magic could prevent that. Several expeditions were launched in search of a new homeworld, but these were a long shot. Avalon's star orbits in an extremely distant orbit, so distant that despite its gravitational attachment to the galactic core, it is technically in intergalactic space. At night, its host galaxy can be seen in glorious detail, a maelstrom of wispy spiral arms. All of this meant that despite their advanced FTL capabilities, taking the time to track down a suitable homeworld around another star simply wasn't doable.
The short-term solution was to adjust the orbit of Avalon outward as its star grew. Eventually, the star died, and it took remarkably power to fuel the shields that protected the sídhe homeworld from the energy of the expulsion of the star's outer layers. When only a white dwarf remained, Avalon's orbit was moved inward once more—far inward. Since any planet in a white dwarf's habitable zone would necessarily be tidally-locked, the Old Sídhe constructed a global network of rotational acceleration engines, eighty-one in all. These engines' placements spanned the width and breadth of Avalon, from the equator to just above the polar circle. As a result, despite its close orbit, Avalon has a rotation period of ten hours. This of course has an enormous energy cost, however, and magic alone could not do the job. To supplement it, the Old Sídhe hollowed out their world and constructed a huge fusion reactor at its heart.
Over time, the sídhe adapted to their new world. Despite looming huge and orange in the skies over Avalon, despite having more than enough light and heat to fuel life, Avalon's star is missing something in the magical spectrum, owing to its effectively dead state. With no need for adaptations against this power, the sídhe lost them, and when they eventually encountered Earth, they found that they couldn't bear the glare of a healthy star in its prime. When exposed to direct sunlight, the sídhe essentially petrify, forming a tough mineral crust over their bodies, and going into a deep hibernation state. They remain this way for the duration of the exposure, but once out of the light, they can return to normal in the space of a few hours.
Of course, a white dwarf's habitable zone lasts for only millions of years. The sídhe knew they were living on borrowed time. They began to intensely research ways to survive. They managed a breakthrough when they stumbled upon the secret of using magic to create Krasnikov tubes, serving as doorways through a tangle of nine multiverse clades*. Among those was Earth, but it was deemed unsuitable for habitation. They did find another world, however, one uninhabited and roughly Avalon-like. They began plans to colonise it, but then something terrible happened.
*(Why yes, this is Yggdrasil.)
A ripple in spacetime was detected on the fringes of their star system, and a strange object crash-landed in the sea to the north of the capital. This would turn out to be the egg of the charybdis, a strange and dangerous inter-universal race. Essentially, a charybdis "egg" stings any sapient creatures coming in contact with it, infecting them with a strange and highly contagious retrovirus-like pathogen that contains genetic codes for a vast number of species, far more than any one planet, or even galaxy, can hold, making it capable of infecting essentially any sapient species. This fact and the effects of the pathogen make it apparent that charybdis was deliberately engineered as a planet-killing bioweapon by some unfathomably advanced race for unknown purposes. Essentially, the pathogen transforms the infectee into a charydis themselves. A charybdis is an enormous aquatic creature, surpassing even the great leviathan, the largest creature in the seas of Avalon. It is so large, in fact, that by the time the transformation is complete, no amount of biological material can sustain it; rather, it is a sessile organism that roots itself into the very planet, leaching off vast amounts of geothermal energy. A charybdis infestation has the capacity to render a planet geologically dead in centuries, usually taking most of the biosphere with it. While Avalon was no longer a world with typical geology, the charybdis still had the potential for wreaking massive havoc, and the Old Sídhe devoted all of their resources to stopping the threat. They won a major victory when they managed to alter the properties of the pathogen to render it non-transmissible except by sting, but by that time, the charybdis were fully entrenched in the ecosystem. They consulted the goddess for help, but even she struggled in the face of the invasion. The war lasted a millennium, and by the time the charybdis were extinct on Avalon, so much had been lost that the people descended into a dark age. The time of the Old Sídhe came to an end.
Even still, the sídhe knew that they needed to find a new world. Though much knowledge had been lost, the Krasnikov network remained functional. It was decided that Earth would do, and slightly over 100,000 B.C., the sídhe invaded our world and subjugated humanity. After a long occupation, however, the djinn decided that they didn't like their fellow inhabitants of the planet being picked on, and chased the fae back to whence they came. There they remained until modern day, often interacting with our world on a smaller scale. The most notable event occurred when a mad sorcerer belonging to a demon-hunting Abrahamic cult cast a curse upon the sídhe so that they could not bear the presence of Christian iconography, reacting to it in a manner similar to iron.
I could say more, but that's the gist of the history, and I really just want to post this dumb thing already.
Also, I have another book recommendation for you. I don't know if you like pulpy adventure stuff, but if you do, might I recommend James Rollins' Subterranean? It heavily involves the mimi, one of the fairy races of Australian mythology.
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My thoughts on that is that their life evolved around a lava vent in shallow waters instead of the deep ocean. That means that the entire area was boiling hot. Most life there had to evolve to meet those conditions, which they did, and some of it evolved into multi-celled organisms and beyond.
A few species liked the cold more, so they migrated to the colder regions of the world, since there was less competition there. When the world began to cool, those species moved back down while the others slowly died out. The Sidai managed to preserve some of the species that needed hotter temperatures, especially the ones that were cute or useful, but most of the others became extinct. The ones that liked the cold were better able to adapt to the cooling world, to it evolved into a biosphere similar to our own, since most of the factors that influenced earth evolution were present on that world. The ancient species are very different, but not many of them will show up. I'm definitely bringing up the ones that eat eyeballs and the Spiralbugs, though.
The world also happens to be infested with creatures that I based on the darker fae stories. Invisible creatures that will eat you alive and wear your skin. Guardians of forests, who make sure loggers will never come back alive. Things that will punish you for disturbing the dead by making your body waste away to nothing. Creatures that will crawl into your bed at night, wake you up, and dissolve your teeth with acid if your breath stinks. The reason for that falls firmly into the spoiler category, but it means that most species targeted by them are tougher. The Sidai do appear to have some control over the fae, but they're not directly related to them.
I also wanted to add lava whales, because that would be cool, but I couldn't make things work.
Anyway...
The horns might actually be a good idea, provided they're a light color. That looks way too dark to me, and something light would balance it out. Though it's not much of a concern in text, it would be a good thing to keep in mind in case it's ever transferred to a visual media.
For the possible name: you have a race who grew proud and was forced back to their home planet - the portal for which is in the Atlantic? Perhaps Plato knew something we didn't.
Looking at the etymology, Atlantis is derived from Atlas, which comes from a- (copulative prefix) and 'tlenai', which means 'to suffer, endure, bear', and the overall name means "Island of Atlas". While the name was probably meant as a metaphor for the hubris of Atlas, the etymology does indicate an island associated with suffering. You'd probably have to get someone who speaks Greek to look at that, though.
I have no idea where I was going with that.
Anyway, Aothr does sound good. And it does take away the implication that the middle ages thought the home of their former overlords was a kind of paradise.
Your backstory - especially a war against a terraforming eldritch abomination - sounds like it would make a far more interesting story than a princess going to an Earth high school and getting humans wrapped up in a fight for political power. Now I want to write a story about fighting against something like the charybdis.
I'm not entirely sure about the part where they lose almost everything, though. I mean, that did happen in the ancient times, when a book was one single copy of a book, not thousands of identical copies, because books could only be hand-written. A race advanced enough to create interstellar portals? They'd better have a very good reason not to mass-produce their version of books, or to have something like the internet. And wouldn't they keep the bulk of their knowledge away from the charybdis or create backups? Even if Earth isn't that habitable - and they seemed to remember Earth - they could fling a few lights into the future there and make everyone memorize where the storage is and pass it on to their kids.
Why didn't they go to the more habitable world - Alfheim? - instead of Earth? I mean, you'd think they'd remember that more than Earth - and if they didn't remember either, they'd have to explore all the worlds again and find Alfheim.
Other than that, it does sound like a good backstory.
My MTS writing group, The Story Board
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Well, you know what they say. If at first you don't succeed… do, or do not. There is no try.
…
Wait, I don't think that's how it goes. Anyway…
in shallow waters instead of the deep ocean. That means that the entire area was boiling hot. Most life there had to evolve to meet those conditions, which they did, and some of it evolved into multi-celled organisms and beyond. |
Ah. That makes perfect sense. And it's kind of brilliant. I like it.
Creatures that will crawl into your bed at night, wake you up, and dissolve your teeth with acid if your breath stinks. |
You are so lucky I couldn't think of a tooth fairy pun.
The horns might actually be a good idea, provided they're a light color. That looks way too dark to me, and something light would balance it out. Though it's not much of a concern in text, it would be a good thing to keep in mind in case it's ever transferred to a visual media. |
I was inspired in that by the tendency of mythology to describe supernatural creatures as being black in colour. E.G., Classical interpretations of ghosts, modern folklore about shadow people, older literature referring to the devil as the "black man". In the short story I described, which used many of the same ideas I've got here, the fairies' skin was actually immaterial and shadowy, but that was more to avoid instigating a discussion on race, since the fae in that story didn't really have any apparent redeeming qualities (I think making a connection between black skin and "black" skin is ludicrous, but a lot of people, including actual racists, do like to do it).
I'm not sure I like the look that horns would give, though it does make story sense, especially if they're based on goat horns. Another possibility is glowing eyes. I made the eyes large and black as a tribute to UFO mythology and, to a lesser extent, BEK legends, but glowing eyes would probably work, too.
For the possible name: you have a race who grew proud and was forced back to their home planet - the portal for which is in the Atlantic? Perhaps Plato knew something we didn't. Looking at the etymology, Atlantis is derived from Atlas, which comes from a- (copulative prefix) and 'tlenai', which means 'to suffer, endure, bear', and the overall name means "Island of Atlas". While the name was probably meant as a metaphor for the hubris of Atlas, the etymology does indicate an island associated with suffering. |
I love the story of Atlantis. I've probably done more reading on that single Platonic myth than on any other legend in the world. I would love to bring Atlantis into this, and frankly, you make a convincing case. (If I did, I'd have to adjust the timeline down by a decimal.) The problem, though, is that this idea has a lot of ties to a broader mythos I've set a lot of my story ideas in, including my other major urban fantasy idea I've alluded to. Maybe it's time I elaborated on that…
…or at least its main character. She's most of relevance, here.
Karen Akermann is a 13,000 year-old vampire.
Maybe I'd better explain just what a vampire is in this story.
The following is copied straight from my notes. It has a few noticeable grammatical errors, and doesn't really elaborate on a lot of things. I'll add asterisk-based footnotes.
Vampires -Immortal -Drink blood for certain chemicals/enzymes/whatever* contained therein -Get most of their nutrition the normal way -Regenerative abilities -Adaptive regeneration; placing a stake through the heart, for instance, does not kill them, though it can paralyze them in certain circumstances, as noted below -Cannot die of hypothermia, at least not the kind one would encounter in a natural, terrestrial** environment; something like sticking them in a case of liquid nitrogen might work -Superhuman speed and strength -Not truly undead -Strongly allergic to silver, hawthorn, rowan, yew, and aspen; significant amounts can cause extreme pain and paralysis (though generally only for the duration of contact) -Possess an exaggerated version of the human reaction to sources of heat; high temperatures can cause them to fall asleep*** -Possess a number of psychic abilities, including telekinesis and telepathy -Use of their powers is seen in visible emanations of psychic energy from the eyes; this looks somewhat like tendrils of light -Go through a poorly-understood cycle of power strength; peaks occur twice a day, for an hour around noon and midnight; at peak, their skin glows and psychic emanations will trail off the eyes regardless of power use -Sunlight does absolutely nothing to them except provide essential vitamin d (unless, as noted above, it is particularly bright or focused, in which case they might get sleepy or pass out) -Go through long cycles interspersed with periods of “fertility” (regardless of sex, though females can also actually reproduce) during which their condition is transmissible -Have fangs which are purely used for cutting (and transmission of the condition)**** -Drink blood through a chitinous proboscis which descends from their palate (when extended, this alters their voice, giving it a raspy and otherworldly-sounding sort of lisp) -When initially infected, go through a brief period during which they experience symptoms similar to tuberculosis; after this enter a three-day period of ultra-deep sleep while the final changes occur; heart rate and other bodily functions occur at such a slow rate during this time that the victim appears dead (unless brain activity is examined, in which case the activity level will be seen to be far higher than is theoretically possible in normal conditions, let alone when practically dead) -Pathogen is an energy-based “metavirus”, created by Atlantean priests attempting to find immortality*****; was created by combining a sample of lapis philosophorum (used by Muvian priests to extend the lifespan through spiritual means) with the ghoul metavirus****** , which had plagued the djinn for billions of years, turning them into flesh-eating monsters |
*Chemicals? Unlikely, but possible. Enzymes? No. Seriously, past me? I think it's something metaphysical, to be honest.
**I don't care what the standard rules of English say; that's a proper demonym; it should be capitalised.
***I have mixed feelings about this. As previously noted (read: ranted about), vampires having a sunlight weakness is a pet-peeve of mine. But I like the way it affects a story, too, and at the time when I first conceived this, I hadn't come up with the whole fairy plot yet (and once I did, I realised I wouldn't get to show that trait very much, anyway). This was my way of compromising. Looking at it now, though, it seems kinda wishy-washy. I do like what it does for the romance arc in this story, though. Karen is a member of a race that thrives in the cold and can't bear the heat; her love interest is of a race that thrives in the heat and can't bear the cold. Hmm.
****Fangs are overdone. I'm kinda tempted to throw that bit out.
*****Here's where I'm worried. I came up with this idea on my own, wanting a clever origin for my vampires, liking Atlantis legends, and remembering the surprisingly common idea that the Atlanteans were into bioengineering. I later found Lindsay Sands' series of vampire romance novels, which use an almost identical backstory where vampires are the result of blood-powered medical nanobots created by the Atlanteans as a cure for cancer.
******(Because you can never have too many asterisks) While they've long since forgotten it, owing to the fact that they have been around for longer than the universe itself, the djinn in this setting are actually transhuman. The thing is, the process which uplifted them also applied to all biological matter in the area, including pathogens. Metaviruses are essentially energy-based transviruses.
Anyway, Karen's one of the original vampires. There's actually a cool scene I imagined at one point where she's wandering through a museum exhibit on Palaeoindians, and recognises one of the carvings on display as something she did herself. Actually, I call her Karen Akermann, but that's a modern pseudonym. Her real name is Dahut. If you're familiar with the legend of Ys, I'll confirm that yes, she is that Dahut. Not one of her shining moments as a person. Okay, so the legends demonised her heavily, but she's still basically responsible for the destruction of a city. For the record, it wasn't Atlantis; it was an Atlantean colony.
A character which shows up later on is her cousin, Sekhmet. Yes, that Sekhmet. She's not just a vampire, but also a liontarianthrope (a word I invented myself, but I maintain that it's etymologically valid, if clunky). She also serves as a subtle parody of the whole "angsty vampire" trope. She's angsty about being a vampire, but it has nothing to do with the blood-drinking. On the contrary, blood is her favourite food, and she can be quite vicious when you provoke her, though she's basically a good person. No, she's angsty about being a vampire because it's only possible due to her mixed heritage. She was actually a citizen of Mu until the Atlanteans sealed her away in Egypt until modern day, and the Muvians and the Atlanteans kind of hate each other's guts. So much so, in fact, that their fighting was indirectly responsible for their mutual destruction. In fact, there's another vampire trait I didn't mention above, but which is connected to this bit of plot. Vampires are fine with sunlight, but sun symbolism, on the other hand, is a problem. The Muvians, being sun-worshippers, used the same curse on the Atlanteans as the one used on the fae. This has the strange side effect of meaning that vampires can never shop at Target.
Atlantis itself in this setting was a Palaeoindian civilisation somewhere in South America. Either Bolivia, Peru, or Argentina; I haven't decided. Mu, on the other hand, was in Sundaland.
Anyway, Aothr does sound good. |
I do like it. The question is, how the heck would that be pronounced? I think there's an obvious pronunciation I'm missing. The ones I've considered:
"ow-ther" - Sounds terrible.
"ay-oh-ther" - I initially hated it, though I must admit it's growing on me.
"ah-ther" - Metafictional jokes aside, it sounds good. Not sure how much sense it makes, though.
"ay-ther" - Sounds pretty bad. I mean, it literally sounds good, but it kind of defeats the point, doesn't it? I dunno.
"uh-ther" - I like it, but it does suffer from the same problems as the previous.
"ee-ther" - Because logical pronunciation is strictly optional, right? Also, sounds kind of stupid in context. Plus, it would remind me too much of Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine.
"eh-ther" - See previous. Plus, it's a stupid U.S. pronunciation that I won't stand for, even if I'm U.S. myself.
"ih-ther" - Now I'm not even trying.
"yo-ther" - That's… that's actually kind of good.
[any of the above, minus the "er"] - I think that's taking the Norse parallels a little too far, in a way that doesn't even make much sense.
And it does take away the implication that the middle ages thought the home of their former overlords was a kind of paradise. |
Though I'd argue it's mythically valid, even if it doesn't make much sense in context. The otherworld was often seen as a kind of paradise, just a dangerous one whence you'd never return.
Your backstory - especially a war against a terraforming eldritch abomination - sounds like it would make a far more interesting story than a princess going to an Earth high school and getting humans wrapped up in a fight for political power. Now I want to write a story about fighting against something like the charybdis. |
Heh. I'm curious to see what you'd come up with.
The problem is, while I like the concept, I don't really like it enough to write a story around it. Not necessarily, anyway. I probably could do it, but the thing is, I usually prefer more personal stories. War stories aren't really my thing.
That said, there was a concept for a future plot I had in mind involving them in this. It is mostly focused on relationship drama, though. For reasons I can't remember, Sanna and Allison wind up wandering the ancient seabed, and Sanna comes across a cache of preserved eggs and ends up getting stung. They then have to race to find a cure before it's too late, but the main source of drama here is actually that Amanda (who is the third protagonist, in case I didn't mention as much) is really ticked off at Allison for letting it happen. Their initial chemistry came from their shared feelings for Sanna, which of course isn't really a great foundation to build a relationship upon. So given this as a catalyst, it kind of falls apart. They do eventually reconcile, though.
On another note, I came up with the whole charybdis plot before I decided that Aothr was hollow. The two ideas don't really work together very well. The latter was kind of conceived in order to make a particular setting toward the end of the series more interesting. Maybe I should revise it. Aothr isn't hollow; it just has a fusion reactor deep underground at the north pole.
I'm not entirely sure about the part where they lose almost everything, though. I mean, that did happen in the ancient times, when a book was one single copy of a book, not thousands of identical copies, because books could only be hand-written. A race advanced enough to create interstellar portals? They'd better have a very good reason not to mass-produce their version of books, or to have something like the internet. And wouldn't they keep the bulk of their knowledge away from the charybdis or create backups? Even if Earth isn't that habitable - and they seemed to remember Earth - they could fling a few lights into the future there and make everyone memorize where the storage is and pass it on to their kids. |
To be fair, digital data has been speculated to be a pretty unstable long-term storage medium. I could see something like the internet collapsing.
But yeah, I think that part's a stretch, too. I just needed a good reason for society to go down the drain. I guess the extremism could be a natural shift, and I could explain away the technological differences by saying that the technology was gifted by Hecate, and they didn't really understand it.
Why didn't they go to the more habitable world - Alfheim? - instead of Earth? I mean, you'd think they'd remember that more than Earth - and if they didn't remember either, they'd have to explore all the worlds again and find Alfheim. |
Vanaheim, actually. Alfheim has an eitr-based* ecology, and isn't really suitable to habitation by life as we know it. And I'm not sure, really. I think I might have had a good reason, but I forget what it was. Any suggestions?
*I have put far, far more thought into the overall backstory of the larger setting than could ever reasonably appear in a story. The idea was that eitr was a sort of primordial soup, created by spirits or even the will of the universe itself**, which was essentially the first life in the universe (the whole demon thing wasn't part of this mythos), or at least the first physical life in this universe that was actually native. Most life that subsequently emerged wasn't based on eitr, but in a few universes, eitr formed on other worlds and became the basis of either all or most life. Most life that was eitr-based developed more complex biochemistry and only used eitr as a solvent, but the original eitr-based biosphere in our part of the multiverse eventually evolved a unique chiefly eitr-based lifeform, a race known as the Aem.
Eitr and water don't mix. Water is toxic to creatures which use eitr as a solvent, and eitr is toxic to creatures which use water as a solvent.
**Yes, I appreciate the irony of applying creation-based cosmogony to one of the few mythologies that doesn't use it.
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I was inspired in that by the tendency of mythology to describe supernatural creatures as being black in colour. [...] I'm not sure I like the look that horns would give, though it does make story sense, especially if they're based on goat horns. Another possibility is glowing eyes. I made the eyes large and black as a tribute to UFO mythology and, to a lesser extent, BEK legends, but glowing eyes would probably work, too. |
Yeah, I get the reasons behind it, but it just looks really unbalanced.
Moving the character to the end.
I do like it. The question is, how the heck would that be pronounced? I think there's an obvious pronunciation I'm missing. |
What about "oh-thur"?
I put it through Translate and listened to it. In English, looks like it would be read as "ow-ther". In Japanese, it would be ay-oh, emphasis on the oh, and Chinese would be "ah" with a rising tone.
Heh. I'm curious to see what you'd come up with. The problem is, while I like the concept, I don't really like it enough to write a story around it. Not necessarily, anyway. I probably could do it, but the thing is, I usually prefer more personal stories. War stories aren't really my thing. |
Well, let's see. Altering the charybdis is one of the smartest moves they could make. Other than that, the best protection would be astronaut suits. Completely self-contained so they won't come in contact with or inhale any shed skin cells from the charybdis.
...Actually, if it can change any form of life through touch, wouldn't it change the little spores and germs in the air? Whole planet is kaput within a few weeks, then. But let's assume that they can't because they originally landed in a freezing environment, where very few spores or germs are, but plenty of larger creatures to change. (Yes, I am thinking of The Thing.)
So the fight would be to contain them in that location for however long it takes to find a more permanent solution. That would be rather difficult, because the most obvious means of transmission from a freezing landmass would be fish and birds. The most obvious means of killing the things off would be through fire, which is a little difficult underwater or high up in the air without much oxygen. Therefore, they would need to find a way to block off the oceans - possibly through a worldwide shield, but that would take a ton of energy - and then get snipers on any landmasses close to the freezing continent.
Like I said, fire is obvious because it kills a lot of things. If that weren't possible, then some strong acid would probably do the trick. I'd go with hydrochloric acid to begin with, but there could probably be another weakness.
So, inoculating everything against the charybdis would be the first goal. Changing it is also good, but a little ambitious and it'd be difficult to get all of it changed. (This would actually still work with your story concept - inoculations and immunity can be passed down through the blood, so the charybdis wouldn't absorb everything, but Sanna would still be susceptible if they didn't give her the vaccine. And why would they? They think it's long dead. But it could still evolve to overcome the inoculation, and it would still be a threat to Earth.)
So, the people involved are working on an inoculation and setting up a quarantine zone. Still, if one person slips up and lets one charybdis through, it could cause them to have to pull the line back, especially if they have things with extensive root systems or creatures that can do deep underground. That means they would be subject to attrition until they managed to get the inoculation done. Still, once they're on land, they could easily burn, salt, and poison everything until they're convinced that the charybdis is gone.
I could see them trying to develop flying cities in order to keep themselves away from everything else, but they would still need the land for mass-production of crops.
After the vaccine is ready, they could release it in airborne form, or in a way that could be absorbed by as many creatures as possible. Probably wouldn't work on 100% of creatures right off the bat, but getting the first one done would be a major success. Then the focus would be on driving them back, but advancing the line still means that they're going to leave cracks in their defenses. They could push forward, only to have to move back and clean up a mess.
In the end, I suspect that at least half the planet would be rendered uninhabitable, as they'd have to do some hardcore sterilization of the land in order to kill off the charybdis.
On another note, I came up with the whole charybdis plot before I decided that Aothr was hollow. The two ideas don't really work together very well. The latter was kind of conceived in order to make a particular setting toward the end of the series more interesting. Maybe I should revise it. Aothr isn't hollow; it just has a fusion reactor deep underground at the north pole. |
Why wouldn't that work? Depending on how far down the crust goes, the charybdis wouldn't hurt the reactor. It could still probably get down there and menace the people down there, but I don't think it would break the planet.
To be fair, digital data has been speculated to be a pretty unstable long-term storage medium. I could see something like the internet collapsing. But yeah, I think that part's a stretch, too. I just needed a good reason for society to go down the drain. I guess the extremism could be a natural shift, and I could explain away the technological differences by saying that the technology was gifted by Hecate, and they didn't really understand it. |
Or a religious cult sprang up - modern form of Hecate worship? - that teaches that advanced technology is what caused the charybdis to plague them and they needed to get rid of their advanced tech in order to atone.
It could even be true. You said that the egg worked by converting biomass - what better way to find one than to look for signs of advanced technology?
Vanaheim, actually. Alfheim has an eitr-based* ecology, and isn't really suitable to habitation by life as we know it. And I'm not sure, really. I think I might have had a good reason, but I forget what it was. Any suggestions? |
So the one that's named "elf-home" is uninhabitable to the elf-analogues, but they can live in the one named after the fire giants? :P
Make sense if you're going by position in the stars, though.
Maybe my suggestion for protecting their technological secrets - sending copies of their technology to still worked. However, the religious cult wanted to find the caches to destroy them, and then decided to set up shop there because they were already there. Could set up a subplot - or an additional reason to invade Earth - if one of the caches is still around.
Maybe the charybdis infected Vanaheim during a trip there. Or, if it was attracted to signs of advanced technology, they could be afraid that the things they put on there already called one down, so they decide to start over with a low-tech planet. Heck, they could even feel that they're helping the humans, since enslaving them prevents them from advancing to the point where the charybdis is a problem.
Also, I'm pretty sure that nobody can put too much thought into a story. At least, not until they decide to write a TV show, consider the commercials that might be playing when it's on, and then get a headache from the static in the commercials. Yes, I have done that before.
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For the other fantasy idea, your vampires kind of remind me of the ones from my sci-fi series.
Basically, in the backstory, there was a group of biological engineers who created all but one humanoid race. They came from the Sevalfer, who would be the Space Nazi Elves. So, because their home planet was populated by Nazis, they fled out into space.
During their travels, they found a lot of planets with animal life but no sentient life, so they decided to make more humanoid species, mostly because they could. Some of them were caused by curiosity, like the Adonai (angels) or the Aquavians (fish people). Then there were the Nozerau.
See, the biological engineering worked mainly through guiding evolution. They injected members of a species with a nanotech-based retrovirus, which got passed down through the offspring. It made the ones with the virus stronger and more likely to survive. And each generation, the virus altered part of their DNA to get them closer to the humanoid ideal, but to retain parts of the original creature that the makers wanted them to have. Then, once it reached the ideal, it would shut down.
And then on one planet, the skeeters ruined everything. Basically, a creature similar to a mosquito fed on the creatures that were given the virus, and that virus began altering them, as well. Unfortunately, because it was calibrated for a different species, the Nozerau never reached the ideal and the virus never went away. Over time, it changed to think that the current form was the best, and change others to that form more aggressively than it was designed to. So, when they feed, they can pass it on and turn others into themselves.
Biologically, they have some ability to photosynthesize, which cuts down on their energy requirements, but they still need nutrients in order to survive. They can feed off of fruit juices or blood, but females have more of a craving for blood because they need it for reproduction.
They feed through a proboscis, which ordinarily sits on the roof of their mouth but can extend outward through the lips.
Their stomachs are different from a human's, because humans can't really get any nutritional value from blood - the acid gets rid of that. They don't really have any way to break down solid food, so even though they can drink fruit juice, they can't eat fruit.
They're telepathic and have a sort of hive structure, because insects + social instincts = insect social structure. (I was in high school when I wrote this.)
The other galactic species have vaccines against the virus, as well as cures, but there's a bit of a problem for our protagonist: she's a second-generation hybrid between two species on the edge of the compatibility spectrum. Her system can't handle vaccines designed for one or the other, and her body will react like it's been poisoned. So, obviously, she goes out to fight them without that protection and she gets scratched. (She's a bit of a hothead who tries to be calm and rational, but often fails and sometimes feels she's too calm and rational, so decides to become even more reckless to make up for it.) Since she only got a few bots, the transformation works much slower than it ordinarily would. She does get a few benefits from it, though, and then decides to go out and fight even more vampires. Meanwhile, her brother and a love interest are running around, trying to deal with the local nest and trying to get a cure that her body can handle.
That would be one of the stories in that series that takes place on Earth, but it has to be at least the fifth book.
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What about "oh-thur"? I put it through Translate and listened to it. In English, looks like it would be read as "ow-ther". In Japanese, it would be ay-oh, emphasis on the oh, and Chinese would be "ah" with a rising tone. |
To be honest, I think I like "yo-thur". But I guess it doesn't matter that much in writing.
...Actually, if it can change any form of life through touch, wouldn't it change the little spores and germs in the air? Whole planet is kaput within a few weeks, then. But let's assume that they can't because they originally landed in a freezing environment, where very few spores or germs are, but plenty of larger creatures to change. (Yes, I am thinking of The Thing.) |
No, it doesn't work like that. It's specifically targeted to sapients. Now, if it were to land on a planet of sapient microbes, they'd have a big problem.
Like I said, fire is obvious because it kills a lot of things. If that weren't possible, then some strong acid would probably do the trick. I'd go with hydrochloric acid to begin with, but there could probably be another weakness. |
I assume these things are pretty hardy. After all, their roots go down to the mantle. Then again, maybe only the roots can handle that.
So, inoculating everything against the charybdis would be the first goal. Changing it is also good, but a little ambitious and it'd be difficult to get all of it changed. (This would actually still work with your story concept - inoculations and immunity can be passed down through the blood, so the charybdis wouldn't absorb everything, but Sanna would still be susceptible if they didn't give her the vaccine. And why would they? They think it's long dead. But it could still evolve to overcome the inoculation, and it would still be a threat to Earth.) |
Well, to play devil's advocate for a moment, there are tons of the things and their "eggs" seem to be capable of traveling between universes. And that's assuming it wasn't a targeted strike (it wasn't, but they have no way of knowing that). Inoculating everyone just to be on the safe side would probably be smart. Then again, if they've gone all Luddite as you suggest, I could see it. Although I was thinking their tech level is still slightly beyond ours (as implied by Icelandic mythology), and we've got vaccines.
Why wouldn't that work? Depending on how far down the crust goes, the charybdis wouldn't hurt the reactor. It could still probably get down there and menace the people down there, but I don't think it would break the planet. |
You misunderstand. I'm thinking energy constraints here. With no geological heat, how do they sustain themselves? I suppose it's possible that they could leach off of the reactor, but I wonder how plausible that would be? And that's not even getting into the radiation exposure. Although they might be hardy enough to handle it. I dunno. Originally, the rotational accelerators were powered by magic alone; I added the whole hollow planet angle because I intend for the climax of one of the later stories to take place at the equivalent of Rupes Nigra.
Or a religious cult sprang up - modern form of Hecate worship? - that teaches that advanced technology is what caused the charybdis to plague them and they needed to get rid of their advanced tech in order to atone. It could even be true. You said that the egg worked by converting biomass - what better way to find one than to look for signs of advanced technology? |
Given that it's fine-tuned to taking out sapients, that actually makes sense.
So the one that's named "elf-home" is uninhabitable to the elf-analogues, but they can live in the one named after the fire giants? :P |
Alfheim is actually home to my intepretation of elves, which I came up with a long time before this concept. Although another idea I had was that rather than svartalfheim, Aothr's universe could correspond to Alfheim, and Svartalfheim is home to a race of sapient cats, going off of a bad running joke I have that cats are actually dark elves (makes sense if you think about it).
Also, since when are the Vanir fire giants? You sure you're not thinking of Jötunheim or Muspelheim?
Make sense if you're going by position in the stars, though. |
I'm not sure I follow. What do you mean?
Maybe my suggestion for protecting their technological secrets - sending copies of their technology to still worked. However, the religious cult wanted to find the caches to destroy them, and then decided to set up shop there because they were already there. Could set up a subplot - or an additional reason to invade Earth - if one of the caches is still around. Maybe the charybdis infected Vanaheim during a trip there. Or, if it was attracted to signs of advanced technology, they could be afraid that the things they put on there already called one down, so they decide to start over with a low-tech planet. Heck, they could even feel that they're helping the humans, since enslaving them prevents them from advancing to the point where the charybdis is a problem. |
That's a reasonable possibility. Another, which I think might, and I stress might, have been what I had in mind is that the universes, due to their abnormal tangled state, occasionally merge or split, and Vanaheim was merged with something else that wasn't habitable at the time, and they haven't checked back since.
Incidentally, a rundown of the nine worlds:
Asgard - I'm not actually sure. One thought I just had is that it's located in hyperspace, making it sort of Lovecraftian and unsuitable for habitation.
Vanaheim - Contains an uninhabited parallel Earth.
Alfheim: Contains the elves and an eitr-based ecology. ALT: Contains Aothr.
Midgard: Our part of the multiverse.
Niflheim: Contains a parallel Earth in a "snowball Earth" state.
Muspellheim: Contains a much older parallel Sun which has entered the red giant stage, or is at least close enough that it's not habitable.
Jötunheim: Inhabited by the Jötnar. Contains an Eitr-based ecology.
Svartalfheim: Contains Aothr. ALT: Contains a race of sapient housecats. Currently merged with something uninhabitable.
Helheim: Big Bang event had no asymmetries. Universe is nothing but hydrogen, helium, and energy. [Note: May be a dubious scenario, owing to the probable existence of primordial black holes.]
Do you have any published work, out of curiosity?
Some of them were caused by curiosity, like the Adonai (angels) or the Aquavians (fish people). |
Now I'm curious to hear about the adonai.
Over time, it changed to think that the current form was the best, and change others to that form more aggressively than it was designed to. |
Software rot?
Biologically, they have some ability to photosynthesize, which cuts down on their energy requirements, but they still need nutrients in order to survive. |
Do they need to photosynthesise, though?
They're telepathic and have a sort of hive structure, because insects + social instincts = insect social structure. (I was in high school when I wrote this.) |
Are we talking insect-style hive-based eusociality, pop culture's mangling of such a system, or just a hive mind?
The other galactic species have vaccines against the virus, as well as cures, but there's a bit of a problem for our protagonist: she's a second-generation hybrid between two species on the edge of the compatibility spectrum. Her system can't handle vaccines designed for one or the other, and her body will react like it's been poisoned. So, obviously, she goes out to fight them without that protection and she gets scratched. (She's a bit of a hothead who tries to be calm and rational, but often fails and sometimes feels she's too calm and rational, so decides to become even more reckless to make up for it.) Since she only got a few bots, the transformation works much slower than it ordinarily would. She does get a few benefits from it, though, and then decides to go out and fight even more vampires. Meanwhile, her brother and a love interest are running around, trying to deal with the local nest and trying to get a cure that her body can handle. |
So, how much of a danger is her actually becoming one? If most people have vaccines, is it really a big deal? I mean, it's not great, obviously, but I'm just curious here. Or would the whole hive thing mess with her head?
That would be one of the stories in that series that takes place on Earth, but it has to be at least the fifth book. |
What's the overall premise?
Incidentally, given your reaction to my description of the charybdis, I think you might like the large-scale plotline of one of my sci-fi concepts. I've already alluded to it. I should explain it in-depth one of these times. I'd post it now, but while I wouldn't mind having around 4+ conversations simultaneously, I don't want to drive you nuts. I hope this discussion isn't boring you, by the way. I wish I could be of more help with your stuff. I mean, I guess you're a professional, but still…
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To be honest, I think I like "yo-thur". But I guess it doesn't matter that much in writing. |
Not really, unless you make bad puns involving the word "Yo".
No, it doesn't work like that. It's specifically targeted to sapients. Now, if it were to land on a planet of sapient microbes, they'd have a big problem. |
Now I'm picturing this thing attacking one of the things I created - a hive-mind colony of sentient single-celled organisms that try to eat every kind of non-plant life they come in contact with.
How does it know if the creatures are sapient?
I assume these things are pretty hardy. After all, their roots go down to the mantle. Then again, maybe only the roots can handle that. |
In that case, they'd need some form of poison. Assuming it has a circulation system that extends to the roots, that would most likely be the best way to get rid of those, short of tearing the world down to the creamy, lava-filled center.
Well, to play devil's advocate for a moment, there are tons of the things and their "eggs" seem to be capable of traveling between universes. And that's assuming it wasn't a targeted strike (it wasn't, but they have no way of knowing that). Inoculating everyone just to be on the safe side would probably be smart. Then again, if they've gone all Luddite as you suggest, I could see it. Although I was thinking their tech level is still slightly beyond ours (as implied by Icelandic mythology), and we've got vaccines. |
Right, which is why I mentioned the fact that vaccines can be passed down from mother to child. If they designed the vaccine right (and with a high level of tech, they probably could do something like the nanobots I mentioned in my vampire explanation) then everyone would come into the world safe from the charybdis. If everyone's safe, then there's no need to think about it any more.
You misunderstand. I'm thinking energy constraints here. With no geological heat, how do they sustain themselves? I suppose it's possible that they could leach off of the reactor, but I wonder how plausible that would be? And that's not even getting into the radiation exposure. Although they might be hardy enough to handle it. I dunno. Originally, the rotational accelerators were powered by magic alone; I added the whole hollow planet angle because I intend for the climax of one of the later stories to take place at the equivalent of Rupes Nigra. |
Aren't you talking about something that's designed to survive travel through outer space? Unless it only sticks to the star systems, it should be able to survive extreme cold and radiation. And if it can travel between universes - well, I don't know exactly how that works in your story, but it would probably be rather difficult to survive.
And it is fairly plausible to survive both cold and radiation. Tardigrades, for example. We could probably shoot a ton of them into outer space and then come back in a few decades to find them spread across the planets, still alive.
If they can extend roots down to the mantle and the reactor is where that would be, that does sort of make sense.
Maybe the egg comes with a nuclear reactor.
Given that it's fine-tuned to taking out sapients, that actually makes sense. |
So the creators' intention was to use it as a weapon? I'm thinking of Doomsday Device, from TOS, where they launched a weapon that looked like an icicle condom to eat planets, but apparently either got killed by it or got wiped out before they could turn it off.
Though you did say that it contains a ton of DNA blueprints, so maybe it was a more general thing, like in Villain - they're trying to wipe out all the competition.
Alfheim is actually home to my intepretation of elves, which I came up with a long time before this concept. Although another idea I had was that rather than svartalfheim, Aothr's universe could correspond to Alfheim, and Svartalfheim is home to a race of sapient cats, going off of a bad running joke I have that cats are actually dark elves (makes sense if you think about it). Also, since when are the Vanir fire giants? You sure you're not thinking of Jötunheim or Muspelheim? |
Ah, you're right.
Yes, that does make sense. I swear cats can teleport through walls.
I'm not sure I follow. What do you mean? |
I meant a sort of positioning between destinations. For example, Earth is in the middle of the possible destinations, Aothr is near the top, Muselheim, Svartalfheim and Helheim near the bottom.
That's a reasonable possibility. Another, which I think might, and I stress might, have been what I had in mind is that the universes, due to their abnormal tangled state, occasionally merge or split, and Vanaheim was merged with something else that wasn't habitable at the time, and they haven't checked back since. |
I guess that would also make sense.
What if Aothr was Asgard, and both sets of elves existed on their respective worlds? Or Aothr can be Helheim, 'cause the creators of the myths didn't like them.
Actually, Helheim = Aothr might make sense. I mean, who was the ruler of Helheim?
"High describes Hel as "half black and half flesh-coloured," adding that this makes her easily recognizable, and furthermore that Hel is "rather downcast and fierce-looking.""
"Jacob Grimm theorized that Hel (whom he refers to here as Halja, the theorized Proto-Germanic form of the term) is essentially an "image of a greedy, unrestoring, female deity" and that "the higher we are allowed to penetrate into our antiquities, the less hellish and more godlike may Halja appear. Of this we have a particularly strong guarantee in her affinity to the Indian Bhavani, who travels about and bathes like Nerthus and Holda, but is likewise called Kali or Mahakali, the great black goddess. In the underworld she is supposed to sit in judgment on souls. This office, the similar name and the black hue [...] make her exceedingly like Halja. And Halja is one of the oldest and commonest conceptions of our heathenism.""
Not to mention that Helheim was supposed to be exceedingly cold and filled with shadowy figures.
Do you have any published work, out of curiosity? |
Never sought it. I don't like publishing houses, so I'm waiting for self-publishing to become more acceptable to the public.
Now I'm curious to hear about the adonai. |
They're a winged humanoid race. They also happen to be extreme zealots, worshiping a goddess not dissimilar from the god of the Old Testament, but less toned-down. Basically, they tend to kill anyone outside of their religion, though at the moment they're held back by treaties - anyone breaks the treaties, it means interplanetary war and destruction.
Their biology is radically different from most other species. Here's the skeleton:
See the distribution of their ribs? The torso is completely filled with the muscles required to flap their wings. The organs are all smushed down into the abdomen. Because they don't have much room for intestines and they need a ton of calories to use their wings, they're obligate carnivores, which is why they have those teeth. They also have pretty tough jaws. I also toyed with the idea of making them lay eggs - the eggs would come out slightly bigger than a chicken's, but have a super-dense collection of minerals that would provide material for the egg expand over time. (Again, I was pretty young when I came up with this.)
Still, they're on the outer range of genetic compatibility for the races. They can breed with the others, but the hybrids are more likely to end up with horrible problems, like muscles growing inside the lungs.
Also, they are unable to bend over or sit down, because their sternum is attached to their pelvis. In birds, the sternum provides a counterbalance to the wings to help them flap. Same here, but it also helps distribute the lift, and the shape forms their body in a way that makes it easier to gain lift over the rest of the body.
Anyway, they're pretty frail. Their bones are light, like a bird's, and most of their weight is the muscles dedicated to moving their wings. (They also have essentially a second cardio system, complete with extra heart, that's only used to supply their wings with blood.) That doesn't make them harmless, though: their wings are strong enough to take someone's head off, or break a spine. Still, long-range is the best option, though they can just fly off.
Plot-wise, they were once the allies of the Sevalfer, aka the Space Nazi Elves, in a massive galactic war. Both races tend to be fanatics, but the Adonai more so - just not in a Nazi way. They tend to kill anyone without pure white wings, though wings with swanlike black bars are acceptable. Speaking of which, the species they were based on was a swan. Those things are pretty, but nasty.
On the lighter side of things, they do have beautiful voices and they're known for their amazing artwork.
I'm sure you've guess by now that they're not literally angels, but they do have their own version. Their angels are based on Hebrew tradition - multiple heads, eyes on every square inch of their bodies, and they tend to be on fire. And those are the ones closest to mortals.
Software rot? |
More or less. Could also be deliberate reprogramming.
Do they need to photosynthesise, though? |
Well, a blood or fruit juice diet doesn't give you many calories - you'd have to drink a ton to get the required calories, and your stomach can't handle that much. That was something I came up with to explain the gap between what they can drink and what they need.
That, and I liked the idea of making them closer to the original - they slept in the daytime, which seems to me a good way to stay in the sun.
Are we talking insect-style hive-based eusociality, pop culture's mangling of such a system, or just a hive mind? |
There tend to be a few queens who act as broodmothers. They're the only ones who can breed and they control the hormones - and social roles - of the other members of the hive, but don't have much say in anything else. The males either act as drones or as ordinary workers or soldiers, depending on the queen's desires. Other than that, workers who gather food and soldiers who defend everyone. There tends to be one female worker who's in charge of running operations, since the broodmothers don't, and she's usually in line to be the next queen.
So, how much of a danger is her actually becoming one? If most people have vaccines, is it really a big deal? I mean, it's not great, obviously, but I'm just curious here. Or would the whole hive thing mess with her head? |
I said they have vaccines, not that most people are vaccinated. The core planets of the five main humanoid races are all vaccinated, but there are some on the fringes which are not, because it's very expensive and complicated to produce. Plus, there are many more races out there that the main six (five humanoid, plus one not) don't know about, so they can't hand them the vaccine.
The planet they happen to be on is Earth. The Nozerau have just showed up and they're trying to colonize the planet. The main characters are trying to prevent that, but they need to keep their presence a secret. Basically, they were trying to determine if Earth is ready to be brought into the galactic community. If humanity knows about it, it'll skew the results. Plus, they don't want anyone else stepping in and just conquering the planet, so the planet can't be revealed to anyone else.
(Little more backstory: the main characters represent an off-branch of the Sevalfer who are more reasonable by virtue of not being Nazis. They're a small group, but already as powerful in galactic politics as the main body of Sevalfer, since they're allied with the most technologically advanced race (the Aquavians). The main Sevalfer are not happy about that, especially because their civilization is in the middle of a domino stack that will completely collapse their empire (and the main characters have blackmail on the empress, so she would like to have them lose face), the Adonai are allied with the main Sevalfer, and the Canids just don't like any Sevalfer, period. The human groups would also try to claim Earth, because it's inhabited by humans, but they're pretty fractured and don't have enough power to hold it. Pretty much everyone would want to steal the planet away, so the main characters want to keep it a secret until they can officially claim it.)
Back to the point, Earth used to be a penal colony back before the vaccine was developed. It was lost during the war (someone managed to knock the solar system out of orbit, because their FTL engines create massive gravitational wells) and was only recently rediscovered by the main characters' group and then the Nozerau. But since the planet is not vaccinated, this means that the population is vulnerable. The main characters start trying to distribute the vaccine near where the Nozerau landed, but they have limited supplies, not much of a way to get more, and certain people refuse to get vaccinated.
And yes, the virus does start messing with her head. Because she's not influenced otherwise, the virus is trying to drive her to become a broodmother - and those are the ones that need the most blood. She doesn't actually enter into a hive, but she can sense where they are after the virus retunes her telepathy. That would be why she runs off and tries to kill them all - can't vaccinate the people, so just get rid of the threat.
So her becoming a vampire is actually a pretty big problem. She won't be able to kill them all before she transforms completely, and she slowly starts losing her mind during the book. And by the time they get a cure for her, she's out in the breeze and close to completely going off the edge.
(And the only reason they can get a cure in the first place is that the Sevalfer empress is worried about the blackmail. Specifically, what they have on her is that she's related to the main character and also a hybrid - plus, a good chunk of the nobility is related to her. This means that the vaccines won't work on them, either, meaning that a lot of them are vulnerable. Plus, she and the main character (sort of) had a pretty nasty falling-out that involved crashing empires, so she's especially concerned that she'll be targeted.)
What's the overall premise? |
Teenage girl suffers in creative ways. :P
It centers around my main character. The plots are fairly discrete, but she's the main thing that links them - she drives the plots, carries most of the fallout, and slowly changes. Do you remember when I posted that one list of what happened to that character when I was advising Graveyard Snowflake over on Random Bollocks? The character who went insane and suicidal and survived it by telling herself she was too selfish and terrible a person to kill herself? That would be her. That was also what happened to her in the first book.
There is one trilogy, and then a second one that I'm playing with.
Rundown of the first trilogy: teenage girl who thinks she's human - but knows she has a weird sense of smell - gets dragged along to a moon colony. That night, she has a dream about monstrous creatures (they would be the sentient cells that try to eat everything) planning to attack the colony, and just shrugs it off. Two nights later, she has another dream, except they're attacking this time. Turns out they actually are, and everyone dies except her and a boy who happens to be a prince and around the age she thinks she is. (She learned that they're vulnerable to sunlight and metal, and he was locked in a safe place because he was important.) So she's mourning her family, but gets survivor's guilt, which turns into full-blown depression. Also, she has a voice in her head, so she thinks she's going insane. To top it all off, she finds out that she is actually not human. Still, she manages to survive until they can call their home planet to pick them up, but they get attacked again. She's wounded and nearly dies from her injuries, but learns a quirk of her physiology: her body will shut down and hibernate to keep itself alive until it can heal itself. Unfortunately, this makes her look like she's dead, so when she pops back up at her own funeral - well, it causes some trouble with the local religious groups.
In the second book, she finds an Aquavian girl getting attacked by someone she doesn't like. (Long story). Turns out there's a city in the oceans that has been hiding itself for a while. Also, the city is a spaceship. She heads over there, topples a dystopian regime, possibly accidentally kills off her new friend (she survived the book in the first draft, but I had nothing for her to do in the third book so she just sat around), and then accidentally sends the city into space because she was posing as a god. It makes sense in context.
Third book, the city runs into a space patrol and it gets taken to a multiracial center. There, she learns that she has a biological brother and about her relationship to the empress. Also, the voice in her head is actually not a sign of insanity, and it tries to kill her. She survives.
Second trilogy: For reasons, (current idea is that she lost her temper at someone important and her brother got her out of trouble by sending her on 'community service') she gets sent to Earth to serve as one of the judges for whether or not it's ready to join the galaxy. There are actually hundreds of them doing the job, so she mostly just sits back and goes to college there, because she had to end her education early in book 2 because of a subplot I left out. (It involves the other survivor - the prince, failing at doing something helpful for her and instead completely screwing up the political system.) That book is mostly about her adjusting and trying to keep the truth from her roommate - but that fails and she has to deal with either wiping her roommate's memory (which the roommate is very vocal about not wanting) or letting her know. She does choose to let the roommate in on the secret, because she's developing romantic feelings and she's in denial about it so she's rationalizing.
Fifth book: Nozerau threat. Already outlined that, but not the resolution: the roommate is the one who cures her through trickery and lesbian subtext that becomes text.
Sixth or seventh book: I kind of feel like there should be something else before this, but I don't know what, so it's the sixth book at the moment. Anyway, they decide to take Earth into the community and this is mostly about the first contact.
So they're pretty loosely connected and centered around the main character, as sort of an extended bildungsroman. Like I said, this was developed in my early teens and while I did change it up later - mostly to wring the Sueness out of everything as much as possible - it's still based on what was relevant to me at the time.
Right now, I'm doing a third draft of the series, because I wanted to renovate it and because I kind of lost the second draft when my hard drive crashed.
There's vague ideas of stuff after that involving another galactic war, in which she's a commander, and some possible stuff involving her spawn, but those are the more solid plans.
Incidentally, given your reaction to my description of the charybdis, I think you might like the large-scale plotline of one of my sci-fi concepts. I've already alluded to it. I should explain it in-depth one of these times. I'd post it now, but while I wouldn't mind having around 4+ conversations simultaneously, I don't want to drive you nuts. I hope this discussion isn't boring you, by the way. I wish I could be of more help with your stuff. I mean, I guess you're a professional, but still… |
Don't worry about it. I like the conversation and it does actually help me. (I'm actually making a little bit up on the fly.) Plus, I like hearing your stuff and getting to talk about mine. And a lot of conversations is nothing new for me - I think my record is 8.
So, what's your concept?
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How does it know if the creatures are sapient? |
It doesn't. It's just that its genetics library only includes sapient genera. Which leads to an interesting question: if this thing was engineered, and it quite plainly was, how did the designers acquire the information? Was their knowledge on the genera included taken by direct experience? Or was it derived mathematically and experimentally? Either possibility suggests disturbing things about the tech level of the people who made it.
In that case, they'd need some form of poison. Assuming it has a circulation system that extends to the roots, that would most likely be the best way to get rid of those, short of tearing the world down to the creamy, lava-filled center. |
Yeah, especially since doing the latter would have a similar effect to doing nothing.
Right, which is why I mentioned the fact that vaccines can be passed down from mother to child. If they designed the vaccine right (and with a high level of tech, they probably could do something like the nanobots I mentioned in my vampire explanation) then everyone would come into the world safe from the charybdis. If everyone's safe, then there's no need to think about it any more. |
I was thinking in terms of their slaves from Earth. They still pick them up occasionally.
Aren't you talking about something that's designed to survive travel through outer space? Unless it only sticks to the star systems, it should be able to survive extreme cold and radiation. And if it can travel between universes - well, I don't know exactly how that works in your story, but it would probably be rather difficult to survive. |
Fair enough.
So the creators' intention was to use it as a weapon? I'm thinking of Doomsday Device, from TOS, where they launched a weapon that looked like an icicle condom to eat planets, but apparently either got killed by it or got wiped out before they could turn it off. |
I remember that episode. I stopped watching the season not long afterward. I really ought to go back to it sometime. It was good.
Yeah, it's probably a weapon. I mean, it's pretty clearly artificial, and there's pretty much no way it's not going to cause massive amounts of destruction. The thing is, though, I'm not convinced that the people who made it aren't still around. I haven't actually figured out the details on its creators, but I've been thinking about it, and I am starting to get suspicions. Remember those "Perverters" I mentioned off-handedly? I'll go into more detail below. They aren't anywhere near advanced enough to pull something like this off, but maybe a variant of them from another universe would be. They are masters of bioengineering. I'm not sure what their motivations would be, though. "Kill everybody" isn't really their usual MO. But still, an alternate version of them served as the villains in a distant sequel series idea I had, so there's already precedence for it.
I said I don't think it was a targeted strike, and I stand by that… but if it were, I don't think it would be too difficult to figure out why. I haven't done more than hint at it yet, but the charybdis aren't the only Aothreal event that's tied up in mysterious multiversal shenanigans.
Though you did say that it contains a ton of DNA blueprints, so maybe it was a more general thing, like in Villain - they're trying to wipe out all the competition. |
Not even just DNA. They found as many types of genetic codes stored in the pathogen as they did codes themselves, which is to say that after looking for years, they still couldn't find an end to either. Someone was very thorough. One has to wonder why they chose such indirect means to do the job, since they were so advanced.
Yes, that does make sense. I swear cats can teleport through walls. |
They're small. They're hairy… or furry, anyway. Some of them have black fur. They have pointy ears. And most damningly, they've been known to sit on your chest in the middle of the night and weigh you down.
[Hel] |
That makes quite a bit of sense. Now, to find a way to make it plausible that the sídhe would know what the Norse called it, so as to make the initial situation even worse…
I'm sure you've guess by now that they're not literally angels, but they do have their own version. Their angels are based on Hebrew tradition - multiple heads, eyes on every square inch of their bodies, and they tend to be on fire. And those are the ones closest to mortals. |
Well, I was about to suggest you alter their design a bit with traditional angels in mind, but I guess you've already covered that. Do they have an ophan analogue?
More or less. Could also be deliberate reprogramming. |
Why would someone do that?
The planet they happen to be on is Earth. The Nozerau have just showed up and they're trying to colonize the planet. The main characters are trying to prevent that, but they need to keep their presence a secret. Basically, they were trying to determine if Earth is ready to be brought into the galactic community. If humanity knows about it, it'll skew the results. Plus, they don't want anyone else stepping in and just conquering the planet, so the planet can't be revealed to anyone else. |
Are the Nozerau actually trying to go around converting everyone, or is that just a thing that keeps happening?
Back to the point, Earth used to be a penal colony back before the vaccine was developed. It was lost during the war (someone managed to knock the solar system out of orbit, because their FTL engines create massive gravitational wells) and was only recently rediscovered by the main characters' group and then the Nozerau. But since the planet is not vaccinated, this means that the population is vulnerable. The main characters start trying to distribute the vaccine near where the Nozerau landed, but they have limited supplies, not much of a way to get more, and certain people refuse to get vaccinated. |
…those aren't by any chance Alcubierre drives, are they?
[plot synopsis] |
When exactly is this all set?
Don't worry about it. I like the conversation and it does actually help me. (I'm actually making a little bit up on the fly.) Plus, I like hearing your stuff and getting to talk about mine. And a lot of conversations is nothing new for me - I think my record is 8. |
Glad to hear that. And I understand perfectly; I have trouble corresponding over email because I'll write paragraphs and paragraphs and then a lot of people will just send a few words in response.
So, what's your concept? |
Firstly, my favourite kind of non-contemporary sci-fi is the kind that focuses heavily on exploration, xenoarchaeology, and first contact. So basically, the opening narration of Star Trek. If I could design a video game, it would be just flying around the galaxy and exploring. So I was basically starting off with that. I also wanted to incorporate elements of mystery.
The first story I figured out was actually sort of a retelling of the Messina Strait scenario from The Odyssey (this was conceived before I used the same myths in the story concept detailed above). Basically, there's a weird group of systems on the fringes of colonised space, a barely-habitable red dwarf system called Messina. Messina is the closest system to the Charybdis system, a binary stellar remnant with anomalous properties and a ridiculously large amount of spacer's folklore surrounding it. Charybdis A is a black hole, but Charybdis B is a pulsar with a couple of planets around it. Here's where things get weird, and the reason why the Messina system was colonised by the Europans, which, out of all the races in known space, are the ones with the least psychic potential. The pulsar's radiation seems to have an unprecedented and bizarre effect on individuals with moderate-to-high psychic ability, an effect which spreads out for several light years in all directions; it creates an intense urge in the listener (for lack of a better term) to seek out its source. Unfortunately, going near a pulsar is generally considered to be a bad idea, and Charybdis B is surrounded by a dense debris disc composed of the wreckage of those who fell under its thrall. Due to the radiation, no one has been able to investigate further, and the scientific consensus is that it's some poorly-understood astrophysics phenomenon, since by their reckoning, no lifeform could survive that close to a pulsar (there are spacer's legends about plasma beings in the Sun's Vulcanoid region, but those are generally considered to be tall-tales).
The heroes are a group of explorers who have obtained new and highly advanced shielding which is capable of withstanding the radiation in the system. One of the crewmembers is a Europan, and she's been assigned to keep her crewmates under control if something goes wrong. So they go in and land on the innermost planet, determined to be the actual source of the signals, in order to investigate.
Basically, it turns out that there is a race of plasma-based lifeforms trapped there, who have been calling out in hopes of being rescued (they didn't realise that the radiation was dangerous to most other races). Just what happened is unclear, but it seems that they had lived on the star that Charybdis B had been, but at some point they encountered another race, from far across the galaxy, which abducted some of their members. When they came back, they were different somehow. It seems that the aliens tried to do something to them, but the process failed to work fully due to their radically different biochemistry. The survivors were the scylla; enormous, mostly solid, insane, cold, monstrous abominations. They somehow destroyed Charybdis A, and fought off the surviving aliens. They then stuck their brethren inside a planet, apparently for their own protection. The plasma beings aren't sure where the scylla are now.
Well, predictably, it turns out that the scylla are still hanging around, and a fight ensues. In the end, they escape and the plasma beings are freed, but the explorers are left wondering just who the aliens from the story were, and what they were trying to do.
Most subsequent stories for a while would be basically like that, with them exploring and/or investigating interstellar folklore. But in their travels, certain alien civilisations keep cropping up, including an incredibly feared race known as the Perverters. Eventually, they run into the real thing, and at this point, the focus shifts from scientific exploration to looking for weapons for the war that ensues.
The way I came up with the Perverters was kind of interesting. I had two disparate plot elements that I wanted to explore. Firstly, the recent research finding that, in defiance of all previous thought, population II stars actually did quite often have rocky planets. The idea that life could have started only a few billion years after the Big Bang is quite mind-boggling. Second, I've always liked the idea of biological technology, but I've always sort of wondered what kind of culture would rely on it almost entirely, as is popular to depict in some sci-fi. The way to explore both of these questions then hit me in the face.
Basically, the species that would eventually become the Perverters was a very early civilisation that cropped up on a planet orbiting a population II star somewhere near the centre of the galaxy, billions of years before the formation of the Sun. These people were relatively advanced, in cultural terms, and had a talent for magic, but the scarcity of heavy elements meant that they couldn't really develop technology.
Then, the Makemakeans showed up. They're a recurring bit of backstory in my sci-fi concepts. Basically, they were a galaxy-spanning empire from a world in the galactic nucleus, originally from another universe entirely. They got their name from the fact that our first encounter with their remains (they seem to be extinct, though no one is sure) was in finding the ruins of an observation post they left on the dwarf planet Makemake. Their culture was very warlike, and relied on a caste system. There were two main castes: the warrior caste, and the scientist caste. They were fond of conquering people, and they also loved to experiment with new technology. If a technology was possible, they went through a phase where they relied on it. They developed FTL tech no less than three separate times. In fact, one of those designs is relevant to the overall plot, but I'll get to that at some other point. Anyway, at the time that they invaded the Perverter homeworld, they were going through a biotech phase. Being enormous jerks, they made their ships with onboard AI preinstalled, by basically brainwashing the people they conquered and mutating them into their ships.
Well, the invasion succeeded, at first. But then a turncoat helped the natives built a magical artifact called the Pulse Stone, which, when activated, restored the free will of the fleet. Horrified, they committed collective suicide by turning their guns on one another. As it happens, the entire Makemakean warrior caste was wiped out that day, inducing a massive cultural shift for their people. But that's another matter.
The Perverters were left with the knowledge and capacity to create biological technology. Over the ensuing years, they mastered the art, making themselves shapeshifters in the process. They developed a very high level of technology, nearly all of it biological in nature. And when I say advanced, I mean advanced. They basically ecoformed* most of their home star system… not just the planets, but the space itself. Meanwhile, as a result of the fact that their first contact experience was so unpleasant, they developed an intense xenophobia. This eventually developed into a fanatical religion. The Perverters believe themselves to be the ultimate lifeforms, and that all others are inferior beings that they are obligated to subjugate. Consequently, despite the fact that they've long since developed more ethical production methods, they continue to rely solely on intelligent lifeforms as material for the production of their technology. This makes continued efforts to invade other worlds a must.
The actual conversion process is centered around the shaper, a piece of non-biological technology that the Makemakeans left behind. (My original idea was that there was only one, but it might make sense for there to be multiple.) The shaper is essentially an enormous metal ring, with a fluctuating field of nanotech fluid inside. Once a victim is dropped through the field, the nanobots reshape them in a very quick and painful process. (The shaper has reserves of excess biomass which it can use to make larger pieces of technology.) This process completely reconfigures the victim's body, but care is taken so as to leave the mind intact, albeit stripped of free will. The subject is then sent to a storage area to wait until a user comes by, at which point they imprint on said user, granting them exclusive control.
This process is never used on the Perverters' own kind, except in the cases of the most heinous crimes.
Anyway, at some point in humanity's distant past, they tried to invade Earth, but were successfully repelled. They have vowed to eventually return, but in the meantime, they've formed a grudging respect for humans, the only genus ever to best them at war.
This turned out to be kind of important, as the Perverters have been screwing with their genetics for years, and they've kind of lost track of their original default forms. As such, they settled on humans as an inspiration when they created a new one. (In fact, my idea was that the form they settled on was extremely similar to humans, the main difference being the eyes, which are a solid glowing red.)
I've got a lot of much more detailed plot stuff, but that's the part I mentioned specifically.
*Because "xenoforming" is too anthropocentric for my tastes, and "planet-forming" just sounds stupid.
And, because I can:
Okay, so because I am a lazy prat, I'm just gonna copy from my notes again:
Djinn -Energy-based -Shapeshifters—can take on physical forms -Invisible in their natural form -Have a secondary human base form -Age four million times slower than humans (one of their “years” is equivalent to four million of ours) |
Wow, that was shorter than I expected. I didn't even include the history or any information about possession. Okay, guess I've gotta flesh it out a bit.
Okay, so their origin is somewhat convoluted, and a mishmash of several ideas I've had over a long time. Some of it is kinda stupid, insane, and/or overly-complicated. It begins with my setting's main precursor race, the Descendants. As their otherwise baffling name implies, they're actually time-travelling transhumans (minor quibble: more like transeverythinghumansincludeds, to be honest) from the distant future. Anyway, a some point, they sent an exploration team back to the Chaotian aeon in order to study proto-Earth. Thing is, something goes wrong, and they end up trapped. They know that the Theia collision is coming, so they work with what they've got and build a device that lets them escape to the void between universes. Incidentally, the first djinnī scouts will arrive two aeons later in the Archaean, and find some Descendant technology buried deep in the planet's interior. But that's not important right now.
They live there for a while (somehow, it's habitable), but they eventually try to go home. Something weird happens in the process, though, and they become beings of energy.
[Everything following this point is considerably more solid than the stuff above.]
Anyway, it turns out that rather than our universe, they've ended up in some dying universe in a state of extreme entropy, with heat death having already occurred long in the past. Things are looking pretty bleak, when suddenly, as if a switch were flipped, the strength of gravity increases by an unfathomably huge exponent, and the universe collapses into a singularity, rebounding into the universe we know.
The djinn kinda wander around the universe for billions of years, eventually settling on the star Thuban for a while. But then their scouts report the discovery of a young planet which bears startling resemblances to their vague cultural memories of their original homeplanet, and they're intrigued. They send out some more scouts to check things out, and begin to make colonisation plans.
This is kind of a wild frontier period, and some interesting stuff happens at this point. For instance, a rogue djinnī looking to make his fortune lands and unleashes a bunch of automated mining engines, carving out a huge series of subterranean tunnels. He manages to find some interesting things down there, including a deposit of an unknown magically-radiative mineral, dubbed Agartium, later nicknamed "Fafnir's gold".
Anyway, so the main colonisation force arrives around the time of the Carboniferous, and settles in pretty quickly. They maintain a thriving civilisation for a few generations, until the end of the Permian.
Yeah, about that.
The end-Permian extinction. The P-Tr event. Commonly referred to as the Great Dying. By scientists. You know something's serious when scientists are coming up with terms like that. The worst mass extinction in the geological record. Over 90% of all life on Earth was wiped out.
Naturally, the djinn were responsible.
What exactly they did is sort of vague. It seems to have had something to do with nuclear physics, though we have yet to make the breakthrough, ourselves. Whatever it was, it did a number on the biosphere, and nearly wiped out the djinn in the process. While we call it the Great Dying, they call it the Great Defiling. It seriously messed up Earth's environment and nearly killed everything.
Well, the djinn kind of toned things down after that. Not much of interest happened in the subsequent years. In the Jurassic, a bunch of djinn decided to withdraw from the world and move to the aforementioned caves, which are somehow still around. The thing is, it turns out that Agartium's deal is that it modifies genetic material to conform to a reptilian form. The djinn down there were, over the course of a couple of generations, bound to a mostly physical form, and had their shapeshifting abilities severely limited. These were the nāgas, or n'jinn, in their language. I'll talk about them more in depth at a later time.
Anyway, things were kind of boring until the humans showed up. The djinn noticed the obvious resemblance pretty quickly. They weren't entirely sure at this point where they'd originally come from, but they recognised the humans as an important piece in the puzzle. Around 100,000 B.C., the djinn liberated humanity from rule by the extrauniversal sídhe. When the humans founded the city of Iram in the Arabian desert, the djinn made direct contact and it was agreed that they would live alongside the humans in the city.
Then Atlantis and Mu got into a nuclear war, and the djinn kind of freaked out. Most were just worried, but a radical group known as the Ifrit, led by Iblis, a survivor of the P-Tr event, decided at this point that the humans had to go. They constructed a secret tractor beam projector in Iram, and used it to snag a comet and smack it into eastern North America, causing the end-Pleistocene extinction, almost immediately destroying Atlantis, and more slowly destroying Mu with the resulting climate change. Thankfully and to Iblis' irritation, humanity survived. Iblis decided to personally wipe out the human colonies, one-by-one.
Among those colonies was Keris, a city on an island in the English channel. Through his contacts, Iblis discovered that the city's princess, Dahut, had lately acquired a reputation as something of a party animal. He took the form of an attractive young man, crashed one of her parties, and seduced her. That night, as a powerful storm raged, he possessed her and used her body to open the gates of the city. He then fled, and the flooding that resulted from his tampering destroyed Keris. Dahut and her father were the only survivors.
Iblis' fate after that isn't clear. Given that we're still around, one presumes he got sealed away at some point.
Anyway, the only real significant trait of the djinn that I didn't discuss is the whole possession thing. Yeah, they can possess people. It's much, much more difficult to do if the possessee doesn't eat pork, though. Something in pork just makes us easier to possess.
Also, they have something of an affinity for pyrokinesis. This probably influenced the wording of the whole "smokeless fire" metaphor, although perhaps not much; it's a pretty decent metaphor for an energy being.
SC1 - The sci-fi thing I talked about above.
SC2 - The thing with the fairies and stuff.
SC3 - The thing with the vampires.
SC6 - That nonsense with the demons.
And the ones I haven't talked much about:
SC1b - The sequel idea to SC1. Involves the Sue-ish protagonist and the zerg knockoffs.
[several uncoded side ideas to the above]
SC4 - A banner label for all my attempts at pulp sci-fi pastiche.
SC5 - An ill-advised (as its own thing, I mean) story idea which eventually became the final volume of my current Scumthorpe storyline. Abandoned as a serious writing concept beyond that.
SC7 - I haven't done much with this one, thankfully. The file itself is quite accurately labeled as "SC3, but stupider". Basically a very non-serious idea involving paranormal investigation.
Posts: 1,807
It doesn't. It's just that its genetics library only includes sapient genera. Which leads to an interesting question: if this thing was engineered, and it quite plainly was, how did the designers acquire the information? Was their knowledge on the genera included taken by direct experience? Or was it derived mathematically and experimentally? Either possibility suggests disturbing things about the tech level of the people who made it. |
Assuming it actually was a genetics library. If it's only aimed at sapient beings, then there are a number of things they could do to narrow the field with less work. For example, if they could identify the specific gene patterns that result in sapience, that would make it easier to figure things out over multiple dimensions. Of course, that still requires an ungodly amount of scientific advancement.
What if they had some way to identify neural patterns associated with sapience? Like abstract thought or metathought.
That could potentially be scientifically plausible. The hypothesis behind aura reading is that humans give off some types of EM radiation, which can be translated into the visual spectrum and used to determine a person's mood, personality, physical wellbeing, and so on. While most things give off that sort of radiation, humans give it off in different ways.
(I actually used that as the basis for telepathy in my sci-fi series. Thoughts alter the EM rays a person gives off, and telepaths have the ability to pick those up and translate them into thoughts. My main character can sort of pick them up, but she has synesthesia, so she smells them instead of sensing. And not through the normal way, either: they don't smell like hormonal changes and she can't block them by plugging her nose, which is a bad thing, because she absolutely hates certain smells, like the smell of pink or magenta (because it's an abomination. Seriously, they're combinations of red and purple, which are at the two opposite ends of the light spectrum, so they clash horribly and give her a headache.) Oh, and telepaths also have the ability to sense colors, because of the EM thing, and other things on the spectrum like radio waves and microwaves.)
If they could see the waves that sapient beings give off, then they’d be able to easily identify which creatures are sapient.
I was thinking in terms of their slaves from Earth. They still pick them up occasionally. |
.
But if they believe the threat is over and they’re all safe, then why waste resources on vaccinating the slaves? I assume they’d be on the lookout for more Charybdis eggs falling from the sky (or whatever they do), so they would have an early warning system.
Yeah, it's probably a weapon. I mean, it's pretty clearly artificial, and there's pretty much no way it's not going to cause massive amounts of destruction. The thing is, though, I'm not convinced that the people who made it aren't still around. I haven't actually figured out the details on its creators, but I've been thinking about it, and I am starting to get suspicions. Remember those "Perverters" I mentioned off-handedly? I'll go into more detail below. They aren't anywhere near advanced enough to pull something like this off, but maybe a variant of them from another universe would be. They are masters of bioengineering. I'm not sure what their motivations would be, though. "Kill everybody" isn't really their usual MO. But still, an alternate version of them served as the villains in a distant sequel series idea I had, so there's already precedence for it. I said I don't think it was a targeted strike, and I stand by that… but if it were, I don't think it would be too difficult to figure out why. I haven't done more than hint at it yet, but the charybdis aren't the only Aothreal event that's tied up in mysterious multiversal shenanigans. [QUOTE=ewenk7] One has to wonder why they chose such indirect means to do the job, since they were so advanced. |
If they’re going the indirect route, then that implies that they wanted to make sure the Charybdis couldn’t be traced back to them.
Three possibilities:
1. They are afraid one of the species they target can kick their asses and do not want to get kicked.
2. They know there’s something more powerful out there that will get upset at wanton destruction. That or they want to target that race, but making it look as if it’s a general weapon and not specific would give them some plausible deniability.
3. They’re not creating the Charybdis to wipe out the species it absorbs; they need the Charybdis for further plans and biological conversion is the fastest way to get it.
I like 2 and 3, and possibly a combination. Suppose the Charybdis has a negative effect – like, say, producing a telepathic brown note – on an advanced race that the creators can’t directly destroy. So instead, they create a bunch of biological weapons emitting said brown note. Once they have enough of them, they will put them in space catapults and fling them at the targeted race. Wiping out a ton of other sapient beings is just a bonus/regrettable sacrifice.
Though there’s one assumption you’re making here: that a race did it. What if it was a terrorist group instead? They create a ton of biological weapons that will result in a full-grown Charybdis and will screw with the minds of any of their species. Between constant searching for eggs and trying to deal with the ones that slip through their net, that would mean constant unbalance for terrorists to take advantage of. Bonus points if the government is open about caring for life.
They're small. They're hairy… or furry, anyway. Some of them have black fur. They have pointy ears. And most damningly, they've been known to sit on your chest in the middle of the night and weigh you down. |
So what would their motives be for coming to Earth and pretending to be pets? Free food, housing, and entertainment?
That makes quite a bit of sense. Now, to find a way to make it plausible that the sídhe would know what the Norse called it, so as to make the initial situation even worse… |
Doesn’t have to be the sidhe. It could be the name the human slaves have for it. I mean, the Norse would probably be one group taken by the sidhe, and if their name stuck for whatever reason – I can imagine the early Christians picking up on it, since they named Hell after Helheim, and they’d be more likely to communicate with English-speakers – then the humans could easily remember what it was called. And then, while she’s at the slave auctions/pens, the other humans give her the traditional “Welcome to Hell” speech.
Well, I was about to suggest you alter their design a bit with traditional angels in mind, but I guess you've already covered that. Do they have an ophan analogue? |
Yep. It’s not that prominent, since none of the main cast are Adonai and not many of them follow that branch of the main religion, so their main interaction with the angels is through artwork. And, well, it’s a lot easier to portray something that has too many limbs and eyes and is on fire than it is to portray two wheels turning inside each other while being on fire.
Though the ophan analogues are not actually wheels. They’re Mobius strips. Because I can.
And frankly, the cherubim and seraphim are creepy enough. Especially since the cherubim are the only ones that are alive.
But the point of making them was to see if I could create plausible winged humanoids. The myth thing came later, and I sort of handwaved it as the reason we think of fluffy-winged angels instead of the terrifying abominations found in Hebrew folklore.
Why would someone do that? Are the Nozerau actually trying to go around converting everyone, or is that just a thing that keeps happening? |
Yes, they are actively trying to convert people. They consider it another means of reproducing, and a much faster and less painful way. I mean, why wait 20 years to get another adult member of your race when you can do it in a week?
See, they’re incredibly annoying to most humanoid species because they drink blood, so those races keep trying to wipe them out. So they try to get their numbers up to keep the species going.
As for why it happened and how, the theory the main characters have is that they came across some of the precursors – the ones who created all humanoid life but their own species. If one of them was able to gain access to their knowledge and alter the virus to spread itself, then they could absorb that group of precursors and add their knowledge to their own. That explains why they have some pretty advanced tech on their side, and how they get through the main characters’ sensors.
They’re more or less right, but the change was deliberate. Let’s just say that in this universe, humanoid races only exist because Rule 34 and because I was a very horny teen with no outlets.
…those aren't by any chance Alcubierre drives, are they? |
Nope. I came up with this universe before the Alcubierre drives were announced. The main mode of FTL travel is controlled wormholes, generated by a special drive.
Basically, wormholes are like controlled black holes, but with an eye in the storm, so to speak. There’s a tunnel through which ships can pass to the other side, which requires that drive to safely traverse because otherwise the gravitational effects would tear things apart.
But because of the gravity, letting even a small ship jump would have some pretty bad effects on the celestial bodies around it. Before regulations were set in place, you could destroy a planet by making a jump closer to the sun, which would knock it out of orbit and send it into the sun. ‘Course, if you opened the drive right next to the planet, you would probably destroy a good chunk of the crust.
In the first galactic war, the Solar System got pulled away because someone made an emergency jump. Basically, Earth was in disputed space near the Sevalfer and Aquavian borders. The Sevalfer were dumping human criminals on Earth (in order to stake a claim on it without being too obvious; the humans were raised in Sevalfer culture, but humans were a neutral party in the way because they were all over the place, in pretty much every culture), and that caught the attention of the Aquavians, who sent a few warships to see if it was a war base. (They had a very good reason for thinking it was; they had a few of their own. In fact, the planet featured in the first two books was a listening post in the war.) Because of that, a panicking pilot figured, ‘eh, they’re criminals’ and made the jump too close to the system, which pulled the sun away. It later established a stable orbit around the center of the galaxy, but nobody could find it because it wasn’t where it should be.
And that is why opening a wormhole too close to any inhabited system is highly illegal, and uninhabited ones only a little less so. Under the peace treaty everyone signed, it’s considered an act of war to jump to close to someone else’s system, which usually means throwing the culprit to the dogs. (Which is kind of literal if the Canids are doing the complaining.) Doing it once too close to a system will get your license revoked. In fact, I have a potential scenario from the second galactic war I mentioned.
The main characters know something’s up and that there have been attacks of some sort that are destroying solar systems in the area, so they’re putting a force field around one inhabited system while the planet evacuates. As they finish testing it out, an energy wave comes through at light speed, aimed at the system. It passes through the shield and hits one of the outer planets. Turns out that it’s a matter reflector: it folds matter on the subatomic level so it turns into antimatter. Result: big boom. They start panicking and tell the planet to hurry up the evacuation (ansible handwave), because it looks like it’s headed for the planet. They finish the evacuation and all the ships start headed for the star in order to slingshot out of the system as quickly as possible. Except there’s a problem: the wave is headed for the star and will reach it before the ships can get out of there. So the main characters order the ships to jump out immediately, regardless of the consequences. Most of the ships get out safely, and the entire system is destroyed in the ensuing explosion.
And given that scenario, the main characters and the captains of the ships end up on trial and still lose their licenses despite the mitigating circumstances. That’s how serious that law is.
When exactly is this all set? |
The Earth novels would be set around when I write them, so the previous books would be a few years before that. The first book takes place over six months, (when she’s fifteen) the second is six months after that and lasts for only a few, and the third is a few weeks later and probably takes place over a few weeks. In the latter two, she’s sixteen. Then a timeskip of a couple years to let our protagonist heal up, and then I introduce her to the next batch of horror. The Earth novels will probably be set over a couple years at most.
Glad to hear that. And I understand perfectly; I have trouble corresponding over email because I'll write paragraphs and paragraphs and then a lot of people will just send a few words in response. |
Yeah, that’s incredibly annoying. Especially when I’m debating YEC Christians. That seems to happen a lot, and they tend to skip over a lot of points I make, too.
And now that we’ve said that, I’m going to skip over your paragraphs and give a few sentences in return. :/
Seriously, though, this sounds good. I’d love to read that. Do you have any more stories you want to reinterpret for that series, like the descending-into-hell archetypes, or the Ramayana?
One thing I want to note about the Perverters: that sounds pretty plausible. I mean, the organic technology thing is pretty iffy most of the time. Organics tend to be squishy. Even the hardest biological matter is a lot easier to crack than most rocks and metals. Therefore, in most cases, it doesn’t really make sense to create spaceships and the like out of organic material, since by the time someone is capable of manipulating biology like that, they should have the tech to just build metal hulls.
(I do use organic tech in sci-fi, but it’s mostly stuff that works with existing biology. For example, the nanotech used in bodies, organic implants, biologically engineering sapient cells that form into troll-like creatures and eat all the meat on a planet – all of those are organic. But not spaceships, unless I’m writing SGA fanfic or something else along those lines.)
But in their case, it does. They don’t have rocks and metals, just biology. And with the tech boost from the conquerors, they can do it easily.
‘Course, all this is probably what you were thinking when you designed them, but good job on creating a plausible biopunk society.
Anyway, at some point, they sent an exploration team back to the Chaotian aeon in order to study proto-Earth. Thing is, something goes wrong, and they end up trapped. They know that the Theia collision is coming, so they work with what they've got and build a device that lets them escape to the void between universes. […] They live there for a while (somehow, it's habitable), but they eventually try to go home. Something weird happens in the process, though, and they become beings of energy. |
What if the thing that traps them is actually the conversion into energy beings? For instance, they go back in time, but while they’re dematerialized (?) all organic things are lost for some reason. But the energy of their minds still exists for a brief moment, and the computer manages to absorb them before they’re lost. So they’re alive in energy form, but trapped in the computer. Eventually, they figure out how to retune themselves to exist outside, and then they try to go home. But by that time, things have decayed (leaving tech behind for the later djinni to find) and they end up stuck in the previous universe and things continue from there.
[snip lots of good backstory]Anyway, the only real significant trait of the djinn that I didn't discuss is the whole possession thing. Yeah, they can possess people. It's much, much more difficult to do if the possessee doesn't eat pork, though. Something in pork just makes us easier to possess. |
Well, pigs have a pretty similar biology to humans. We’re both mammalian omnivores and eat much the same things. Did you know that wild pigs will hunt down, kill, and eat sheep?
Anyway, could be something along the lines of the Christian curse on the sidhe. Abrahamics aren’t supposed to eat pork, because the bible says so (I mean, that is the same passage that says that rabbits chew cud and camels don’t have divided feet), so one of them could have cursed the djinn to make it easier for them to possess their enemies and not themselves. Of course, that would have the major downside of the enemies having the djinn on their side, but it would make it more difficult for the Ifrit to wipe out the Abrahamic communities. Alternatively, someone cursed the pork to make it easier to let the djinn in, to provide a path of lesser resistance and get the djinn on their side, but that backfired when the Ifrit showed up.
Reuses the same idea, but eh. Keeps humans relevant and driving the plot.
And thanks for the reference guide.
My MTS writing group, The Story Board
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There's this guy, right? Maybe it's a girl. I don't care. Anyway, they're an extremely gifted clairvoyant. The ability is subconscious, so what happens is they just get feelings and intuitions.
The problem: they also have severe OCD. And they can't tell the difference.
"Drinking orange juice instead of milk this morning could mean the difference between life and death! Or it could be my OCD acting up again. Hmm… better not risk it. I must drink all the orange juice!"
Sorry it took so long to reply. One of my clients got his book published, so that project needed extra attention. On the plus side, I now have my name attached to a published book that I'm not entirely ashamed of. |
No problem. What's the book? Is it out yet?
Assuming it actually was a genetics library. If it's only aimed at sapient beings, then there are a number of things they could do to narrow the field with less work. For example, if they could identify the specific gene patterns that result in sapience, that would make it easier to figure things out over multiple dimensions. Of course, that still requires an ungodly amount of scientific advancement. |
That's more or less what I had in mind.
What if they had some way to identify neural patterns associated with sapience? Like abstract thought or metathought. […] If they could see the waves that sapient beings give off, then they’d be able to easily identify which creatures are sapient. |
That's a reasonable idea, too.
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But if they believe the threat is over and they’re all safe, then why waste resources on vaccinating the slaves? I assume they’d be on the lookout for more Charybdis eggs falling from the sky (or whatever they do), so they would have an early warning system. |
But that suggests that they've got some on hand. Unless it's only effective before a certain point (which, to be fair, would make sense), and the challenge is in acquiring it before then.
If they’re going the indirect route, then that implies that they wanted to make sure the Charybdis couldn’t be traced back to them. Three possibilities: 1. They are afraid one of the species they target can kick their asses and do not want to get kicked. 2. They know there’s something more powerful out there that will get upset at wanton destruction. That or they want to target that race, but making it look as if it’s a general weapon and not specific would give them some plausible deniability. 3. They’re not creating the Charybdis to wipe out the species it absorbs; they need the Charybdis for further plans and biological conversion is the fastest way to get it. I like 2 and 3, and possibly a combination. Suppose the Charybdis has a negative effect – like, say, producing a telepathic brown note – on an advanced race that the creators can’t directly destroy. So instead, they create a bunch of biological weapons emitting said brown note. Once they have enough of them, they will put them in space catapults and fling them at the targeted race. Wiping out a ton of other sapient beings is just a bonus/regrettable sacrifice. |
If they're harvesting them, they'd have to time it right. They aren't exactly long-lived once an outbreak gets going.
Though there’s one assumption you’re making here: that a race did it. What if it was a terrorist group instead? They create a ton of biological weapons that will result in a full-grown Charybdis and will screw with the minds of any of their species. Between constant searching for eggs and trying to deal with the ones that slip through their net, that would mean constant unbalance for terrorists to take advantage of. Bonus points if the government is open about caring for life. |
That… makes a lot of sense, actually.
So what would their motives be for coming to Earth and pretending to be pets? Free food, housing, and entertainment? |
Clearly to keep an eye on those
Or maybe it has something to do with those mysterious invisible entities that they always seem to be interacting with.
Doesn’t have to be the sidhe. It could be the name the human slaves have for it. I mean, the Norse would probably be one group taken by the sidhe, and if their name stuck for whatever reason – I can imagine the early Christians picking up on it, since they named Hell after Helheim, and they’d be more likely to communicate with English-speakers – then the humans could easily remember what it was called. And then, while she’s at the slave auctions/pens, the other humans give her the traditional “Welcome to Hell” speech. |
That works rather nicely.
Especially since the cherubim are the only ones that are alive. |
Wait, in your version or the actual myths? Because I don't seem to remember that part.
But the point of making them was to see if I could create plausible winged humanoids. The myth thing came later, and I sort of handwaved it as the reason we think of fluffy-winged angels instead of the terrifying abominations found in Hebrew folklore. |
What are the wings like? Are they feathery?
As for why it happened and how, the theory the main characters have is that they came across some of the precursors – the ones who created all humanoid life but their own species. If one of them was able to gain access to their knowledge and alter the virus to spread itself, then they could absorb that group of precursors and add their knowledge to their own. That explains why they have some pretty advanced tech on their side, and how they get through the main characters’ sensors. They’re more or less right, but the change was deliberate. Let’s just say that in this universe, humanoid races only exist because Rule 34 and because I was a very horny teen with no outlets. |
Makes sense to me. That and the intense temptation to make an homage to classic sci-fi can make it hard not to include one or two races of rubber forehead aliens. That's part of why I came up with the Descendants, though when possible, I like to come up with something more original like shapeshifting or humanoid flesh-suits.
Actually, though, that reminds me. I've always thought it would be interesting to take that idea to the logical extreme, and have multiple races doing it, so not only are there a bunch of humanoid races running around, but also a bunch of Tau Cetianoid races or whatever.
[wormhole drives] |
Ouch. Do they have some good sublight engines? Because if not, interstellar travel is gonna take a while.
The main characters know something’s up and that there have been attacks of some sort that are destroying solar systems in the area, so they’re putting a force field around one inhabited system while the planet evacuates. As they finish testing it out, an energy wave comes through at light speed, aimed at the system. It passes through the shield and hits one of the outer planets. Turns out that it’s a matter reflector: it folds matter on the subatomic level so it turns into antimatter. Result: big boom. |
I was going to complain about how the term "fold" better described parity reflection than charge reflection, but then I realised that it describes either process pretty well, and I was just being an idiot. Speaking of parity, though, are you familiar with mirror matter? It's a fascinating and underused physics concept. It think it has great potential in spec-fic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_matter
Yeah, that’s incredibly annoying. Especially when I’m debating YEC Christians. That seems to happen a lot, and they tend to skip over a lot of points I make, too. |
For me, it was most a pain in high school. I didn't really have many friends at the time (or now, for that matter), and I was desperate to get social interaction. But it didn't exactly work when I was the only one trying. It was made worse by the fact that I'm a fairly liberal person living in a fairly conservative area, so once they got to know me, a lot of the people I was talking to would just cut off contact suddenly.
Seriously, though, this sounds good. I’d love to read that. Do you have any more stories you want to reinterpret for that series, like the descending-into-hell archetypes, or the Ramayana? |
Thanks. I'm afraid I don't, though it's a very smart idea that I think I'll consider. The sequel idea I mentioned did at one point involve Ragnarok, though, come to think of it. And there was one idea I had that actually could be looked at as a version of the underworld descent archetype, although I'd probably prefer to approach that in an entirely different manner. Basically, toward the end of the series, after intergalactic travel is unlocked (okay, so the Descendants have multiple uses), the protagonists come across a world in a distant galaxy that a long vanished alien race converted into a necromancy engine. While they're waiting for the gateway back to the Milky Way to line up again, the main character heads down to the surface and turns it on, making contact with the spirit of a love interest who died in an earlier book. A long and emotional conversation ensues, in which the protagonist finally comes to terms with her lover's death, and discusses the ramifications of the fact that she's now dating someone else. I don't plan on actually using this idea, though, for a couple of reasons. For one, it addresses the topic of spirituality in a rather more direct manner than I'd like, and for another there's the fact that it's just kind of morbid.
But seriously, I do like the idea of retelling various myths. (Side note: I once read a rather cool sci-fi reinterpretation of Icarus and Daedalus. It involved a black hole.) I'll give it some thought.
One thing I want to note about the Perverters: that sounds pretty plausible. I mean, the organic technology thing is pretty iffy most of the time. Organics tend to be squishy. Even the hardest biological matter is a lot easier to crack than most rocks and metals. Therefore, in most cases, it doesn’t really make sense to create spaceships and the like out of organic material, since by the time someone is capable of manipulating biology like that, they should have the tech to just build metal hulls. (I do use organic tech in sci-fi, but it’s mostly stuff that works with existing biology. For example, the nanotech used in bodies, organic implants, biologically engineering sapient cells that form into troll-like creatures and eat all the meat on a planet – all of those are organic. But not spaceships, unless I’m writing SGA fanfic or something else along those lines.) But in their case, it does. They don’t have rocks and metals, just biology. And with the tech boost from the conquerors, they can do it easily. ‘Course, all this is probably what you were thinking when you designed them, but good job on creating a plausible biopunk society. |
Thanks, and yeah, as I noted, it pretty much was.
I was going to describe more of the plot here, but instead, I think I'll explain one of my more elaborate non-humanoid (well, kind of) sci-fi races, the aforementioned Europans.
As the name suggests, the Europans are a species native to Jupiter's second moon, Europa. They don't really have a name for themselves, which is why they use the human demonym for their homeworld. Humans were the first extraeuropan species they made contact with that didn't try to kill them. (The Jovians got there first, but due to the rather screwed up nature of Europan biology, they decided that they were a menace to life and tried to wipe them out. The two races still don't get along. Each one thinks the other is monstrous and evil.)
The Europans themselves are sapient siphonophore analogues, most closely resembling something like the giant siphonophore, but much shorter (only a few sements as opposed to a ridiculously huge number). Like the Terrestrial clade they most resemble, they are composite creatures made up of multiple individual organisms known as zooids. A couple of these are particularly specialised.
One, of course, is the brain. But the other is rather unique. It produces countless microscopic organisms which are sent out into the water. These organisms are linked to the mind of the Europan by quantum entanglement, allowing for instantaneous control from anywhere. They're highly adaptable and resilient symbiotes, which are capable of parasitising any organism above a certain scale. This allows pretty much total control of the host. Not just mind control, but also the ability to reshape the anatomy, physiology, and genetics. They're pretty much the ultimate puppet masters; while they inhabit only the deepest abysses of their world's oceans, they control practically the entire biosphere.
The whole quantum entanglement things means that they haven't really had the need to evolve psychic abilities, something which is otherwise common in this setting.
Their reproduction is also interesting. It's pretty much the same as you would expect, but they don't have sexes. Rather, they have mating types. The minus type is reproductive, so it's generally considered to be roughly equivalent to female, leaving the plus type as more or less male, but that's just a rough analogy.
In order to interact with humans, the Europans have engineered non-sentient human-shaped organisms to ride around in, called vessels (I was originally going to call them avatars, which would actually make a fair bit of sense, considering that Eastern religions are well-liked by the Europans and the majority of them are Hindu, but I figured I was already pushing it with my blatant Avatar ripoff). These look a lot like humans, but in order to distinguish between the two, vessels are coloured a vaguely greenish yellow-tan colour, with glowing solid eyes of the same colour, hair of the same colour, and bioluminescent tron lines of, you guessed it, the same colour. (This appearance was basically how I always pictured quarians from Mass Effect. Come to think of it, despite people's baffling insistence on drawing them as purple in fanart, I was actually mostly right. Maybe I ought to redesign the Europans…)
The Europans are, along with humans and maybe one or two other groups, founding members of the Solar Union, the main interplanetary government of consequence in the setting.
For a high school writing assignment, I wrote a short story detailing first contact between humans and Europans. It's kind of mediocre and I'm not terribly proud of it, but I did get a good grade, as I recall.
What if the thing that traps them is actually the conversion into energy beings? For instance, they go back in time, but while they’re dematerialized (?) all organic things are lost for some reason. But the energy of their minds still exists for a brief moment, and the computer manages to absorb them before they’re lost. So they’re alive in energy form, but trapped in the computer. Eventually, they figure out how to retune themselves to exist outside, and then they try to go home. But by that time, things have decayed (leaving tech behind for the later djinni to find) and they end up stuck in the previous universe and things continue from there. |
That could work. But the question is how they end up at a time before the Big Bang. I guess they could have gone there deliberately, but that would sort of decrease the impact, I think.
I think the original idea was that they went through an Einstein-Rosen bridge, and the different physics meant that instead of getting smooshed when they entered effectively 1D space, they instead just changed to fit it. But your idea might make more sense. Hmm…
Well, pigs have a pretty similar biology to humans. We’re both mammalian omnivores and eat much the same things. Did you know that wild pigs will hunt down, kill, and eat sheep? Anyway, could be something along the lines of the Christian curse on the sidhe. Abrahamics aren’t supposed to eat pork, because the bible says so (I mean, that is the same passage that says that rabbits chew cud and camels don’t have divided feet), so one of them could have cursed the djinn to make it easier for them to possess their enemies and not themselves. Of course, that would have the major downside of the enemies having the djinn on their side, but it would make it more difficult for the Ifrit to wipe out the Abrahamic communities. Alternatively, someone cursed the pork to make it easier to let the djinn in, to provide a path of lesser resistance and get the djinn on their side, but that backfired when the Ifrit showed up. Reuses the same idea, but eh. Keeps humans relevant and driving the plot. |
I was thinking it was just something inherent and biological. Some unknown nutrient in pork that has some subtle effect on brain chemistry. I was going off of the idea that dybbuks can only get you (or maybe it's just easier; I forget) if it's a part of your diet.
By the way, there's something I'd kind of like advice on, but it's also sort of a spoiler for the Scumthorpe project I'm working on. Want to hear it, or would you prefer not to? It doesn't really matter, I'll figure it out eventually, either way.
EDIT: Did some checking, and it turns out that I wasn't thinking of the giant siphonophore. Not sure what I had in mind. I'm picturing something with globular segments. Sadly, the only siphonophore taxa I can name off the bat are the giant siphonophore (P. dubia) and the Portuguese man-o-war. Huh. Well, anyway.
Posts: 1,807
I had this excellent idea for a prologue which would introduce three of the major characters, set the tone for the series, provide a ton of foreshadowing, and be extremely creepy. The catch is that I have to write it from a small child's perspective. So I wrote it, but I can't write children. Probably because I was never a normal child. So it sucks.
The other day, I had a dumb idea. Picture this: There's this guy, right? Maybe it's a girl. I don't care. Anyway, they're an extremely gifted clairvoyant. The ability is subconscious, so what happens is they just get feelings and intuitions. The problem: they also have severe OCD. And they can't tell the difference. "Drinking orange juice instead of milk this morning could mean the difference between life and death! Or it could be my OCD acting up again. Hmm… better not risk it. I must drink all the orange juice!" |
Like Monk but with literal superpowers?
I could see that being a funny background event in a book, but the OCD would have to be treated with a lot of weight the rest of the time.
No problem. What's the book? Is it out yet? |
It is a children's book for very young children, and yes it is. It's self-published on Amazon, called Ronnie the Rooster - guy's selling it in conjunction with a game of the same name in order to promote both. Don't know if it's gotten any sales yet, though.
But that suggests that they've got some on hand. Unless it's only effective before a certain point (which, to be fair, would make sense), and the challenge is in acquiring it before then. |
And/or the vaccine or cure could require a sample of charybdis. I'm guessing the vaccine wouldn't work like normal vaccines - which use a weakened form of the disease to train the immune system into recognizing it as a threat before it can kill a person - but an altered sample of charybdis could still work. I mean, it sounds like an aggressive retrovirus. If you used cells with those properties and altered them so they're not only harmless to the individual but will change the normal charybdis cells back and kill off any more, then it could effectively work.
(That would also be a good reason to stop using the vaccine once the charybdis is gone. If it malfunctions in one person - or works differently in humans - then they could accidentally cause a new outbreak. For that matter, there are plenty of diseases that have altered to survive in vaccinated people - causing a new outbreak in a body with the vaccine could give it the chance to evolve.)
Given how aggressive it is, I can imagine it would require a sacrifice in order to get them. If, like in your scenario, Sanna was infected, then they could probably harvest the cells from her body to alter. Except genetically engineering that would likely take a lot of time. I don't know how long it would take to entirely convert her, but they would likely have to think about a lot of ways to slow down the infection. Let's see... they could constantly transfuse her to prevent the infection from travelling the bloodstream. They would have to use a ton of blood, since getting charybdis in it would make it unusable, but they could probably fix that once the cure has been created. That would slow it to simple cell-to-cell conversion. Still bad, but more manageable. Could also try to freeze her. If that succeeds, it would slow her body's metabolism so that her body can't aid the takeover. Biggest problem is that sufficiently large beings can't survive the dose of chemicals that it would take to prevent the cells from turning into slush. Maybe there's a magical solution to that, or they're going to point-freeze the body.
Or they could cut off areas that are severely infected. That's going to be a major problem with the internal organs, but culling the infected cells would slow the rate of infection.
Or they could build a spaceship with a grappling hook, shrink themselves, and then harpoon the charybdis away.
If they're harvesting them, they'd have to time it right. They aren't exactly long-lived once an outbreak gets going. |
Maybe they actually sit on a planet during an outbreak and take samples away. If they're not very high tech or there aren't a lot of them, I could see them running away once the sidhe win. 'Course, that would mean that they can adapt the charybdis to overcome the defenses the sidhe created, so there's not much to keep them from trying again.
Clearly to keep an eye on those Or maybe it has something to do with those mysterious invisible entities that they always seem to be interacting with. |
And, presumably, demanding that they invade my bath or shower is just for the lulz.
Wait, in your version or the actual myths? Because I don't seem to remember that part. |
Actual myths. Cherubim literally translates to "the living ones". (The -im suffix means it's a plural.) Kind of scary, when the most distinguishing part of them is not the four heads, four wings, eyes all over the place, or being on fire, but they fact that they're alive.
What are the wings like? Are they feathery? |
Yep, and swan-like. That was their base animal and I think it was inspired by reading an adaptation of Swan Lake. The one by Mercedes Lackey, because my mom was a major fan. Seriously, my mom has at least 30 of her books.
You know, I never thought about what would happen if an Adonai were infected by a Nozerau. Since Nozerau lose all their hair (they turn into Orlock, pretty much), the Adonai would probably lose all the feathers on their wings. Maybe they turn bat-like, because that would be cool.
Makes sense to me. That and the intense temptation to make an homage to classic sci-fi can make it hard not to include one or two races of rubber forehead aliens. That's part of why I came up with the Descendants, though when possible, I like to come up with something more original like shapeshifting or humanoid flesh-suits. Actually, though, that reminds me. I've always thought it would be interesting to take that idea to the logical extreme, and have multiple races doing it, so not only are there a bunch of humanoid races running around, but also a bunch of Tau Cetianoid races or whatever. |
It wasn't really an homage to zeerust so much as I wanted to explore alternate biology for humanoids,
Non-humanoids didn't really have much of a presence in the universe, though. There were the Seval races, (Sev being the Sevalfer word for the body shape and -al meaning 'of'. The 'fer' part meant intelligence. They don't use it in the terms for other races.) then the Lyong, who looked more like SE Asian dragons (and they could sort of fly by gliding), and the Uhms. Those were more like a cross between sloths and ungulates, and they bred like angler fish.
Ouch. Do they have some good sublight engines? Because if not, interstellar travel is gonna take a while. |
They can go as close to light speed as is safely possible, so it doesn't take that long. Safe distance is only a day or two outside the furthest planet, depending on the size of the ship and the size of the planet.
I was going to complain about how the term "fold" better described parity reflection than charge reflection, but then I realised that it describes either process pretty well, and I was just being an idiot. Speaking of parity, though, are you familiar with mirror matter? It's a fascinating and underused physics concept. It think it has great potential in spec-fic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_matter |
Yeah, I came across that while browsing TV Tropes. I've seen longer entries on short stories.
For me, it was most a pain in high school. I didn't really have many friends at the time (or now, for that matter), and I was desperate to get social interaction. But it didn't exactly work when I was the only one trying. It was made worse by the fact that I'm a fairly liberal person living in a fairly conservative area, so once they got to know me, a lot of the people I was talking to would just cut off contact suddenly. |
Had a similar problem in my school. While I did meet a couple of people who were fairly liberal, most of the people there were... well...
That guy was a grade ahead of me and constantly talked about how he thought gay people were mentally ill and how his beliefs were more true because he said so. Also, constantly mentioned that his last name was not Hitler, even though it was clear it wasn't. Even the one guy who was also an atheist was kind of a neckbeard and we fell out after he told me that I should just get over my depression and that I clearly couldn't have been locked in my room for a weekend without food because parents just didn't do that. Though there was also a Jewish atheist and we got along well, even if he was a gun nut, but fell out when he went to Austria and the time difference made it difficult to talk.
Hm. I could see that working if it wasn't explicitly necromantic, but more of a hallucination that's ambiguously real. To keep it close to the myth, you could have the character's current love interest stuck there and she has to go through a dangerous path where she can't see anything behind her. Once she gets there, she helps fix the spaceship, which was damaged on the first pass and which they can't leave behind - scientific data? - so the love interest flies behind her. If she looks back, she'll get distracted and likely end up destroying herself and the love interest. But she could be panicking and then the hallucination comes to soothe her.
But seriously, I do like the idea of retelling various myths. (Side note: I once read a rather cool sci-fi reinterpretation of Icarus and Daedalus. It involved a black hole.) I'll give it some thought. |
Lessee... Messiah-journeys are pretty common. Maybe your protagonist could deliberately try and emulate some of those to earn the respect of an alien race? Or if you're making aliens like creatures from mythology, how about bringing up a few critters and making the main characters run from and/or try to defeat some of them?
[sapient jellyfish] In order to interact with humans, the Europans have engineered non-sentient human-shaped organisms to ride around in, called vessels (I was originally going to call them avatars, which would actually make a fair bit of sense, considering that Eastern religions are well-liked by the Europans and the majority of them are Hindu, but I figured I was already pushing it with my blatant Avatar ripoff). |
Hey, as long as you're not writing about souls that take over living people, even after an entire race commits suicide to get away from them, and you consider it a good thing that they destroy the human civilization and mind-rape babies and you add rape and abuse to the main pairing to make it more romantic.
What about using the name in one of the Chinese branches of Hinduism? I think China has the most developed space program of SE Asia, so it's likely they're the ones the Europans would encounter first. Let me see - I can find three translations: 天神下凡 [tiān shén xià fán]; (incarnation, personification, picture, pictures) 化身 [huàshēn];
(materialization, concretization, reification) 具体化 [jùtǐhuà]. Huàshēn might work best, since it's short and seems to mean "human image", or something along those lines. Seems to be attached to Buddhism. There's also 頭像 [tóuxiàng], which refers to the image attached to an online profile.
Does sound like a great concept, though. I really need to start making more non-humanoid people.
They get stuck outside time - though technically time only exists inside the universe as far as we know - so maybe they get stuck in the original tiny ultra-dense ball of stuff that the universe was before everything? I mean, if they're trying to operate the computer from the inside, that would be like trying to program a computer using nothing but binary, and you can't use your hands so you have to peck at the 1 and 0 with your nose. It'd be pretty easy to screw things up.
I was thinking it was just something inherent and biological. Some unknown nutrient in pork that has some subtle effect on brain chemistry. I was going off of the idea that dybbuks can only get you (or maybe it's just easier; I forget) if it's a part of your diet. |
Could work. Or they're abnormally high in an existing thing, or something like that.
By the way, there's something I'd kind of like advice on, but it's also sort of a spoiler for the Scumthorpe project I'm working on. Want to hear it, or would you prefer not to? It doesn't really matter, I'll figure it out eventually, either way. |
I'm fine with it. If you want to send it through PM so our lurker doesn't see it, that'll also work.
EDIT: Did some checking, and it turns out that I wasn't thinking of the giant siphonophore. Not sure what I had in mind. I'm picturing something with globular segments. Sadly, the only siphonophore taxa I can name off the bat are the giant siphonophore (P. dubia) and the Portuguese man-o-war. Huh. Well, anyway. |
Still a good concept. I think I've mentioned a similar thing I've done, though those are sapient cells.
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The catch is that I have to write it from a small child's perspective. |
For some reason, anything written from the perspective of anyone under middle school age creeps me out. I'm not sure why. It's always been like that, even when I was that age myself. Maybe it's just the association with the really bad literature which teachers tend to assign as reading prior to high school. The only things I remember liking that were assigned in middle or elementary school were Holes, a surprisingly complete retelling of The Rape of Persephone, and a really good adult-level sci-fi novel I never got to finish because I was kicked out of the advanced reading program for not finishing my in-class math work quickly enough. (Absolutely no connection between those, by the way. The more I think about it, the more I realise that my elementary school sucked.) Pretty much everything else was garbage. Mostly faux-artistic "coming of age" stories. I will never understand the obsession with those. I mean, real coming of age that aren't trying to be all artsy can be done well. I loved To Kill a Mockingbird (although that may be a bad example of the genre). But then, we read that in high school. High school literature was fine, even good (mostly; I cannot emphasise enough how much I hated "Incident At Owl Creek Bridge", for instance). It's pretty much everything before that that was utter garbage.
Wow, that got off on a tangent quickly.
Like Monk but with literal superpowers? I could see that being a funny background event in a book, but the OCD would have to be treated with a lot of weight the rest of the time. |
*Consults Wikipedia*
I suppose it would be.
Honestly, I wish people could be less sensitive about that sort of thing. I mean, I'm personally of the opinion that no subject should be off-limits in comedy as long as it's handled tastefully. Honestly, OCD is hilarious, and as far as psychological disorders go, it's one of the least serious. I mean, yeah, it can make your life a living hell, but it's treatable, doesn't cause any kind of legal insanity, isn't life-threatening (I think. My latest bout of depression was linked to my OCD, but I can't say with certainty that the link was causal), and even has some benefits. Don't get me wrong; I understand the desire to be careful around serious topics, but sometimes I think we go too far. Honestly, the closest I've ever come to finding any discussion of the topic offensive is my mild annoyance with people's fixation on the hand-washing thing. Now, I am offended when people make comments, serious or otherwise, based on the stereotypes about Tourette's, but notice the common factor in both of these cases: stereotypes. Ignorance.
Now that I think about it, why haven't I made more of my characters obsessive-compulsive? I mean, they all probably have some degree of it, because from what I can tell from my marvelously scientific sample size of 1, I'm fairly certain that the disease fundamentally affects the way one thinks, but that doesn't really count. Come to think of it, I think I had planned to make both Sanna and her sister Melanie obsessive compulsive, and maybe even Tourette's sufferers. It would definitely be mostly played for drama in that case. Honestly, I'm surprised a tendency toward OCD wasn't listed on either the vampire or the sídhe descriptions I wrote. There's certainly plenty of mythical precedence for either. Hmm. Maybe I should introduce the clairvoyant character I described as a super hero in the Scumthorpe thingy I've been doing.
That reminds me, though. I once read a series with obsessive-compulsive vampires in it, and the best protection against a vampire attack was said to be to keep a can of pencils on your desk. Not to stake them with, but to toss on the floor as a distraction, so you could get away while they were cleaning up the mess. Always liked that bit.
And/or the vaccine or cure could require a sample of charybdis. I'm guessing the vaccine wouldn't work like normal vaccines - which use a weakened form of the disease to train the immune system into recognizing it as a threat before it can kill a person - but an altered sample of charybdis could still work. I mean, it sounds like an aggressive retrovirus. If you used cells with those properties and altered them so they're not only harmless to the individual but will change the normal charybdis cells back and kill off any more, then it could effectively work. (That would also be a good reason to stop using the vaccine once the charybdis is gone. If it malfunctions in one person - or works differently in humans - then they could accidentally cause a new outbreak. For that matter, there are plenty of diseases that have altered to survive in vaccinated people - causing a new outbreak in a body with the vaccine could give it the chance to evolve.) |
Makes sense. I hadn't thought of that. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Or they could build a spaceship with a grappling hook, shrink themselves, and then harpoon the charybdis away. |
Seems legit.
Maybe they actually sit on a planet during an outbreak and take samples away. If they're not very high tech or there aren't a lot of them, I could see them running away once the sidhe win. 'Course, that would mean that they can adapt the charybdis to overcome the defenses the sidhe created, so there's not much to keep them from trying again. |
It's possible. I think they would've been noticed, then, unless they were hiding.
Actual myths. Cherubim literally translates to "the living ones". (The -im suffix means it's a plural.) Kind of scary, when the most distinguishing part of them is not the four heads, four wings, eyes all over the place, or being on fire, but they fact that they're alive. |
That does sound vaguely familiar. Yeah, that's kind of messed-up.
Maybe they turn bat-like, because that would be cool. |
It would. Not sure it would make sense, but it'd be cool. I'm reminded of that quote from Tolkien about demon wings. Actually, you could have them stay as-is, and become giant stabby things of death. I once saw an image satirising outdated pop-culture palaeontology, a reconstruction of a chicken from bones alone. It was this big scaly bipedal monster with giant scythe arms.
…the Uhms. Those were more like a cross between sloths and ungulates, and they bred like angler fish. |
I don't know what's worse, the possibility that the males are sapient, or the possibility that they aren't. Applying nature's weirder bits to people can make for interesting stories. I've always wanted to do a horror thing with giant spaceborne creatures that absorb megafauna as endosymbiotes.
Yeah, I came across that while browsing TV Tropes. I've seen longer entries on short stories. |
Couldn't find it with a search. You sure you weren't thinking of "Mirror chemistry"?
Also, constantly mentioned that his last name was not Hitler, even though it was clear it wasn't. |
Are you absolutely positive he wasn't trolling you? The only way I can imagine someone saying that with sincerity is if they've been repeatedly had their beliefs compared to Nazis… which, to be fair, given what he had to say, he probably did. Nevermind.
You know, it's weird. It was always more or less the same thing, as far as I could tell. They were perfectly willing to listen to me talk about my weird religious beliefs. It's whenever I would mention my interest in queer issues that they'd disappear.
EDIT (Sort of): The sheer length of the sci-fi bit seems to have broken the post. I'll store a copy. Go ahead and respond to this, and then I'll post it. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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For some reason, anything written from the perspective of anyone under middle school age creeps me out. |
Well, the intent of the prologue is to be creepy, so maybe that would work? I wanted it to be subtly creepy, but I think it came off much more overt than I intended.
Honestly, I wish people could be less sensitive about that sort of thing. |
Um, you have a character who can't tell whether his impulses are signs of terrible things happening/about to happen or just his impulses. If he ever tries to get treated for OCD, he'll feel like denying things means dooming the world, on top of the normal anxiety. If it's severe, like you described, he could feel like he has to follow every impulse to keep everyone safe. That kind of pressure could cause a person to snap and take it further. Do you know how dark the human mind is? If he's used to doing things that make no sense in order to ease his mind, he could easily take that much further. He could become a horrifying villain: hurting people en-mass in order to fulfill unsubstantiated feelings. And if people know he's clairvoyant/precognitive, then they could go along with this in order to avert what they think will be a terrifying fate. And the worst part is that he'll likely believe he's doing the right thing, no matter what he does, because that's how he feels.
Using that mainly for comedy is like hanging a nuclear bomb over a city and doing nothing with it but laughing at someone painting a penis on it. Sure, that would be funny, but you still have a nuclear bomb hanging over a city.
It would. Not sure it would make sense, but it'd be cool. I'm reminded of that quote from Tolkien about demon wings. Actually, you could have them stay as-is, and become giant stabby things of death. I once saw an image satirising outdated pop-culture palaeontology, a reconstruction of a chicken from bones alone. It was this big scaly bipedal monster with giant scythe arms. |
The bone structure is a pretty big problem. Birds don't have the 'finger' structure, which is what makes the wings look really cool. It also wouldn't make sense to put the black fur on it, since they're hairless. Too bad, because I really like that idea.
I couldn't find the quote. I was able to find a very long article about whether balrogs have wings, but that's it.
I don't know what's worse, the possibility that the males are sapient, or the possibility that they aren't. Applying nature's weirder bits to people can make for interesting stories. I've always wanted to do a horror thing with giant spaceborne creatures that absorb megafauna as endosymbiotes. |
They aren't sapient. The males are pretty much big, bean-shaped balls of flesh with a penis and a brain programmed for basic regulatory functions.
The females, on the other hand, are ungulate-shaped, but they have claws and tend to climb around a lot. They have seven legs - two walkers and a grasper in front, two graspers in the middle, and two walkers in back. They have six pouches, three on each side, and keep their offspring in that - or let the females crawl over their body - until they're old enough to live on their own. They have another pouch on their back, where they keep one male. To get it in there, another female puts it in with her pair of graspers. Once the male is in there, the female's body attaches it to her digestive system and provides all the nourishment. If the male dies or the female is starving, she can digest it and use it to feed herself and the babies. Other than that, they're mostly herbivores.
They tend to have a herd structure and have a low tech level, but some of them discovered some more advanced tech left behind, taught it their language, and managed to communicate with the closest humanoid races. Since the communicator provided translation and there was no video, both sides were a little shocked to discover what they'd been talking to.
The people who created most of the humanoid races were pretty bad at cleaning up their litter. That was one of the ideas behind a possible sequel series that you might actually like.
Anyway, a Sevalfer girl (around 20 years old, but prepubescent) is also on the planet for reasons - she snuck onto a cargo ship to prove she could and somehow ended up stranded on the same planet nearby. She's able to fake being human for a while, at least until puberty strikes.
For Sevalfer, puberty is condensed into a few days of stretching out the body and making changes. It's extremely painful and extremely noticeable. She's hospitalized and her thrashing about knocks off the device that makes her look human. She manages to escape by using a device to change her appearance. (She knocks out a couple of adults. After that, she changes to look like one of them and lets herself be found knocked out in a closet - they assume that the actual person is her pretending to be him, and capture him, allowing her to escape.) She goes to some nearby ruins and finds that they were built by the people who created the rest of the humanoid races - and there happens to be an interplanetary transporter on it.
After that, she finds that the person who she pretended to be is scheduled to be killed and dissected, so she breaks in to try and rescue him. Except they figured out what she did and set a trap for her, so she tries to escape back to the teleporter. In the end, she's holding hostage the guy she swapped places with when she activates it, so she carries him along with her. The teleporter explodes, so the humans think both of them died.
The concept comes a year later, when she's on trial for her actions. (She's legally an adult, since adulthood is a matter of passing a test for the Sevalfer and they test people who haven't passed when they're accused of crimes, to decide whether they should be charged as an adult or a child. It's a mental thing, so they can't fake the results either way.) As a punishment, she's in charge of keeping the guy safe and teaching him to survive in the galaxy, because he's not allowed to go home - the teleporter threw them onto an Adonai planet and his homeworld thinks he's dead, so mindwiping him and sending him back would be too much of a problem. They're both implanted with devices that track their position (they're not allowed to go too far from each other and they're also banned from travel to planets in a quarter of the galaxy, partly for messing up a sacred Adonai site and partly because Earth humans are travelling around and might recognize him) and their health, and told to come back in a year so they can tell whether she's neglecting her duties.
After they're kicked out into the galaxy, they decide that they'd rather go off and try to find more ruins and tech like what they found on the Canid planet. She wants adventure, and he's an engineer and wants to discover new tech. Plus, they think that if he gains enough prominence in the galaxy, he'll gain sympathy for never being able to go home or see his sister again and it's likely the governing bodies will find some way to send him back home.
So they explore a variety of planets where they think those ruins might be, showing off all my worldbuilding, and generally annoying each other.
There's no romance - he's in his thirties, she's barely pubescent to his mind even though she's sexually active and legally so, and they don't really like each other - but you did mention liking stories with someone from Earth. Though it would be different because it's from a few decades to a century after the real world and Earth has begun to seriously go out into the galaxy.
Couldn't find it with a search. You sure you weren't thinking of "Mirror chemistry"? |
Huh. Can't find it, either, but the Mirror Chemistry entry doesn't look like what I saw.
Maybe I've spent so much time on TVTropes that I'm hallucinating pages.
Are you absolutely positive he wasn't trolling you? The only way I can imagine someone saying that with sincerity is if they've been repeatedly had their beliefs compared to Nazis… which, to be fair, given what he had to say, he probably did. Nevermind. |
It was one letter off from Hitler, but it was the first letter so it changed the entire way the name looked, so it was obviously not the same thing.
EDIT (Sort of): The sheer length of the sci-fi bit seems to have broken the post. I'll store a copy. Go ahead and respond to this, and then I'll post it. Sorry for the inconvenience. |
Not a problem.
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[OCD discussion] |
Ah. I assumed you were coming from a politically correct angle rather than a writing one. People getting offended on my behalf at things I don't find offensive is kind of a pet peeve.
I probably couldn't write something like that, to be honest. Not only do I dislike dark psychological stories, but one like that would be especially bad due to the familiarity. It's like I often say when explaining why I dislike The Scarlet Letter. Sure, the book spoke to me on a deep level, but in a bad way.
I really should've known what you meant, given your liking for dark stuff.
The bone structure is a pretty big problem. Birds don't have the 'finger' structure, which is what makes the wings look really cool. It also wouldn't make sense to put the black fur on it, since they're hairless. Too bad, because I really like that idea. |
How do you feel about pterosaur wings? You could give them something like those, but without the other three fingers.
I couldn't find the quote. I was able to find a very long article about whether balrogs have wings, but that's it. |
It's the leading quote here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...dWingsEvilWings
The females, on the other hand, are ungulate-shaped, but they have claws and tend to climb around a lot. They have seven legs - two walkers and a grasper in front, two graspers in the middle, and two walkers in back. They have six pouches, three on each side, and keep their offspring in that - or let the females crawl over their body - until they're old enough to live on their own. They have another pouch on their back, where they keep one male. To get it in there, another female puts it in with her pair of graspers. Once the male is in there, the female's body attaches it to her digestive system and provides all the nourishment. If the male dies or the female is starving, she can digest it and use it to feed herself and the babies. Other than that, they're mostly herbivores. |
The worst part is, it still sounds less disturbing than how anglerfish do it.
[storyconcept] |
Sounds pretty interesting. I'd probably like it. Remind me sometime to ask for more detail on the sevalfer.
Huh. Can't find it, either, but the Mirror Chemistry entry doesn't look like what I saw. Maybe I've spent so much time on TVTropes that I'm hallucinating pages. |
Okay, I'll describe it, since the Wikipedia page seems to have gotten less accessible over time. Basically, it's matter which is charged in such a way that it doesn't interact with regular matter except by gravity (and occasionally by some weird process involving photons that's basically the equivalent of a shimmering cloaking field). Other than that, it's pretty much ordinary matter. Which means that if you did it right, you could have a thing with two different worlds occupying the same place in space. It'd be great for a science fantasy setting.
I still wasn't able to fit the whole part here. That's what I get for trying to discuss two storylines in one post. Here's the first part, anyway:
Hm. I could see that working if it wasn't explicitly necromantic, but more of a hallucination that's ambiguously real. To keep it close to the myth, you could have the character's current love interest stuck there and she has to go through a dangerous path where she can't see anything behind her. Once she gets there, she helps fix the spaceship, which was damaged on the first pass and which they can't leave behind - scientific data? - so the love interest flies behind her. If she looks back, she'll get distracted and likely end up destroying herself and the love interest. But she could be panicking and then the hallucination comes to soothe her. |
You know, that sounds a lot better than I'd anticipated. Maybe I'll think about it.
Lessee... Messiah-journeys are pretty common. Maybe your protagonist could deliberately try and emulate some of those to earn the respect of an alien race? Or if you're making aliens like creatures from mythology, how about bringing up a few critters and making the main characters run from and/or try to defeat some of them? |
That last thing is actually sort of a possibility already. As I'll detail below, there's a spot where centaurs could show up. Maybe writing out some more of what I've got planned could narrow down other specifics.
Hey, as long as you're not writing about souls that take over living people, even after an entire race commits suicide to get away from them, and you consider it a good thing that they destroy the human civilization and mind-rape babies and you add rape and abuse to the main pairing to make it more romantic. |
… ?
I know you can't be talking about Avatar. My best guess is that you're talking about The Host, although if so, your assessment of its contents are… highly dubious. I suppose if you throw Twilight into the mix, it makes a little more sense, but not much. I don't remember sympathetic alien conquerors in it, either.
[Huàshen] |
That works. Thanks.
Haven't got a whole lot of specifics for the initial stories, but things get going once the war with the Perverters starts. It's discovered that the Makemakeans were working on tech that made use of Krasnikov tubes* practical, but for reasons no one knows but everyone presumes to be selfish**, they stuck it in a place where pretty much no one can reach it: the Bimini Rift.
The Bimini Rift is a dangerous region just beyond the edge of the Milky Way. It's a giant, incredibly dense debris field, with systems in place to ensure it stays that way. At its heart, as it turns out, is the one Krasnikov tube that they were unable to destroy. It's orbited by an invisible subregion of the field, so in order to get through safely, you need the navigational data, which the Makemakeans did their best to hide. It's also designed to prevent anyone from just blasting their way through. But all of this isn't the main defense system.
Scattered throughout the galaxy are six interstellar weapons installations, based on the same technology that they were designed to protect, and with their guns trained on the Bimini Rift. These are located:
1. Around an uncharted rogue planet.
2. In the exovulcanoid zone (I.E., really close) of a binary star system (Hephaestus), one a red supergiant, the other a red hypergiant.
3. At Saturn's north pole (this is guarded by a race of genetically engineered orange-skinned oviparous centaurs).
4. In a planetary nebula (it probably wasn't one when they put it there).
5. Cleverly disguised as a radio-quiet neutron star (Amaterasu B) by way of
6. Cleverly disguised as a dwarf planet (Pitah) in a more or less lifeless system, in the same manner as above.
None of this was known before the data was found in the Makemakean computers. The Bimini Rift was basically seen as the Bermuda Triangle in space. With this discovered, however, it's decided that since faster ships would probably aid the war effort, someone should probably look into disabling the Rift's defenses, and it falls to the protagonists to do that.
*(More commonly known as time tunnels. They're a concept I use a lot, but which sadly hasn't seen much use in other works. Basically, they're wormholes in the broad sense of the term, and in a narrower sense, they're things that are like wormholes, but without the stuff that makes wormholes suck. Not to say that they don't have disadvantages—the only known way to make them is temporary and requires prior subluminal relativistic travel, but they're still better than the atom-wide monstrosities requiring entirely theoretical forms of matter to stabilise that are "true" wormholes)
**(In actuality, this was a rare case of them showing compassion toward other cultures; it was put there in order to protect people from it.)
Does sound like a great concept, though. I really need to start making more non-humanoid people. |
I don't have as many as I'd like, but I do have at least one other major one, from SC1b, namely, the fespa.
Now, as far as the question I had goes, I figure that if anyone is really that desperate for spoilers, they can read it if they like:
Basically, regarding Amanda from SC2, there's a character in my Plumbob storyline that's identical in all but age and backstory. It seems like I should rename one, but I don't know which. On one hand, Amanda is a Roman name, and the SC2 character has a significant part of her backstory in ancient Rome. On the other hand, the name fits the other character better in every other way. You see, it's a mind-bogglingly stupid in-joke.
I'm not sure if you're at all familiar with the Tomb Raider series, but I'm a fan. The game Tomb Raider: Legend has a character by the name of Amanda Evert. Now see, the thing is, The Lost Cult, a novel in the same series that predates that particular game quite a bit, has someone by the name of Allison Harfleur who's basically the exact same character. Ever since I noticed that, I've wanted to name a pair of female characters Amanda and Allison. Either sisters, friends, or a couple; I don't really care. Yes, it's a really bad joke that no one on Earth could possibly get, but I'm determined to see it through. So, my options:
-Leave both characters unchanged.
-Rename the Scumthorpe character.
-Rename the SC2 character.
If I do rename one, the probable name is Roshan.
Advice?
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I probably couldn't write something like that, to be honest. Not only do I dislike dark psychological stories, but one like that would be especially bad due to the familiarity. It's like I often say when explaining why I dislike The Scarlet Letter. Sure, the book spoke to me on a deep level, but in a bad way. |
The Scarlet Letter? Huh. I thought that was just boring and a little too full of itself.
I can really only do dark psychology when it comes with getting pulled out, like my first novel. The protagonist was driven to the brink of suicide, but she clawed her way out and kept herself alive. Granted, she did it by screwing herself up even more, but she still managed to heal in the end.
For me, it's mostly the subtle or implied stuff, though, because I find that what my own mind can cook up is much more terrifying than what other people can show me. I'm not sure if that's objective or not, but I'd rather be given the bones of a scenario and have the characters react to the implied meat than, say, one of those modern so-called horror stories that's really a gorefest. I'm sorry, but if you can't try to scare me while keeping the guts inside the body, it ain't horror.
How do you feel about pterosaur wings? You could give them something like those, but without the other three fingers. |
Same problems, though.
Actually, come to think of it, they are a little more like bat wings than bird wings...
Ah, screw it, I'm giving them hang glider wings covered in feathers that look like bat wings when you pluck them.
It's the leading quote here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...dWingsEvilWings |
Oh. You said Tolkien, not C. S. Lewis.
The worst part is, it still sounds less disturbing than how anglerfish do it. |
Anglerfish-inspired, then.
Sounds pretty interesting. I'd probably like it. Remind me sometime to ask for more detail on the sevalfer. |
Or I could give it right now.
This is the one with the most backstory of the sci-fi series. The Sevalfer - or Selvs, as they hate to be called - are the elves of the setting. Which is probably pretty obvious if you look at the latter half of the word. The nickname is sort of a warped portmanteau of Sev and -al. They dislike it because seval is an adjective meaning, more or less, 'of the humanoid body' (Sev being the word for their version of Cro-Magnons), and the 'fer' part - mind - is what really sets it off from the rest. Their names for the other races start with Seval, if they're not using the chosen names, and their names tend to be insulting. Humans are 'castrated bodies' (because they don't have ear points, which are fairly sexual), Aquavians are 'humanoid fishsticks' (or the name for a popular fish dish), Canids are 'dog-bred bodies', and the Adonai are special so they're the 'graceful bodies'.
This would be why everyone but the Adonai calls them Selvs. Most of them can dismiss insults as coming from lesser species, but the nickname really annoys them, because it completely screws with their grammar system. Their main language is designed to be extremely complicated - so much so that the native speakers are barely fluent - though most people either get it translated or speak a streamlined version of the language that was designed to be user-friendly.
Biologically, they're humanoid. Their home planet was extremely rough, and the weather patterns chaotic, so they have the points on the backs of their ears. They're extremely sensitive to changes in temperature and air pressure (also, tongues), so Sevalfer are pretty good at predicting sudden changes.
Their home planet also has some pretty nasty predators, which is one reason for their rapid puberty. Before they became Space Nazi Elves, they only had about 10 years before becoming adults. Periods of extreme stress can also trigger it early. And, while they go through puberty, they can scream at a pitch that will cause pain in listeners, so they're not entirely helpless during that time.
Then there's the way they breed. The females have heat cycles. Post SNE, it's about ten years apart. Before that, every two years. Once they go through heat, the female seeks out two males and mates with both.
They have 48 chromosomes. The child gets 24 from the mother and 12 from each father. The order they mate in determines which half of the genetic information they pass on, though both can have a Y chromosome. Once one father fertilizes the egg, it releases chemicals that reject any other sperm from him. And that's totally why that happens and not because MMF threesomes sounded hot. Because of the way they breed, there's a much better chance at having a son than a daughter. With humans, it's about 50/50 because half a man's sperm are male and half are female. In this case, both sperms have a 50/50 chance at carrying a Y chromosome, so there's about a 1 in 4 chance of having a girl. If the first sperm has a Y, then the egg will release chemicals preventing a sperm with another Y from coming in. Still, there are cases where that happens.
I should probably explain something here: most humanoids in the galaxy have 48 chromosomes, including humans. The exception is Earth humans, because one of our pairs fused together. Because of that, Earth humans are sort of a different species, but they're still genetically similar enough to be lumped under humans. Of course, most of the 'races' are technically other species. The MMF format is found in about half the races (because twosomes are very popular porn), and this means that the males of the MMF species cannot breed with the females of MF species. Eggs in MF species will commonly reject any more sperm after the first, and if the zygote doesn't have enough genetic information, then it typically gets flushed out or turns into a horrible mutation. However, males from MF species can still mate with MMF species because the egg will accept a sperm with 24 chromosomes.
Of course, this is still the universe where hybrids nearly always turn out horribly, so even if they can breed it's usually a terrible idea.
Culturally, they're a matriarchy. Their primal state was one female guarding a territory and mating with the males there and giving them the babies once she gave birth. They cared for the children while she hunted to care for the accepted parts of the territory. When a daughter got older, she would go to another territory and challenge the matriarch there. Whoever lost died and the winner got to keep the territory.
So, how did they develop civilization in a state like that?
Lesbianism.
No, seriously. Though it's technically more like bisexuality.
In some cases during a territory challenge, the winner would allow the loser to live as long as she acted like a male - rearing children, sexual favors, acting submissive to the leader. The loser would still hunt and help care for the males, but she was not in charge. Over time, a few territories that acted this way slowly grew and took over neighboring territories, forming the first cities.
So, civilization nowadays typically has a sort of noble structure. Land is divided into territories and the more important females take chunks based on their rank. Everyone living on it technically belongs to them, to the point where it's okay for nobility to kill commoners on the streets for no reason at all, or for them to castrate males as they please.
Family units are a little different. Husbands are taken two at a time, and a female can have as many as she can support, provided her rank allows.
As for the males, they typically form a quasi-romantic bond with another. It tends to happen automatically if they spend enough time together, though the Westermarck Effect seems to negate it from happening. Once the bond is established, they form a pair until it's broken, and anyone who wants to marry them has to take both. It's possible to break a bond or form one temporarily. The protagonist in the first part of the series has a brother who's kind of homoflexible - he likes men, but when it comes to women, he's demisexual or grey-A. He does the temporary bonding, since he's not interested in marriage and doesn't want to lock himself in with someone who may want to start a family later on.
It's also possible for a Sevalfer to form a bond with another kind of humanoid. That rarely goes well, and it's why the brother forms temporary bonds in the first place: he often works with members of other species and doesn't want to get attached to someone and creep them out.
So, I did mention that they changed when becoming Space Nazi Elves. Basically, a fascist group took over a few hundred thousand years ago and slowed most progress. They killed off a lot of ethnic groups and destroyed a lot of culture.
Now, while they did practice old-fashioned eugenics, they did advance science to the point where they could genetically engineer themselves. The result of that is that they expanded their lifespan to over a thousand years, and it's not unheard of to find a 1,500 year old. Female Sevalfer were altered to not only get rid of the expiration date on their eggs, but in their lifetime, they use every single one, or as close to that as possible. Granted, not all of them are completely viable or 100% genetically okay, but they still use them. As they get older, their chances of having multiples increase, to the point where their wombs start getting way too crowded. The spacing was also changed: females start their first heat cycle at around 100, and puberty is at around 20, so they have 80 years of adulthood before they become a mom, and they have ten years between children, so the last batch will likely be able to help out with the new brood.
Also, one thing that I came up with before hearing about That Terrible Series: bio-luminescence. The higher-class members, upon having themselves certified as Pure Sevalfer for a pretty price, gave themselves genes to make their skin glow, to show off that they're so pure that they shine sunlight out their asses.
And the bio-luminescence is roundly mocked by most other races, to the point where a lot of them had the gene removed or disabled. Funnily enough, the only ones that still have them are the hybrids hiding in the imperial and noble families.
Speaking of which, I alluded to this a few times before, but the Sevalfer empire is pretty much crumbling. During the beginnings of the first galactic war, a new empress took over the Sevalfer. From there, she deliberately and gleefully ran it into the ground, similar to the God-Emperor of Dune. Basically, she made a ton of new laws that promoted savagery among the nobility, oppressed the people, and just didn't make a lot of sense. A millennium later, the government is still trying to clean up the mess, but now there's a separatist movement growing that's gaining in power, and they're threatening the empire from both the inside and the outside.
*checks over the information*
Ah. Couple more things to talk about. First, the religion. The major religion is related to the one the Adonai have. In fact, that's why they get along so well: the religions are close enough that the Sevalfer can pretend they have near-identical beliefs.
Then there's another group of Sevalfer - technically several groups - that's in a fairly minor role. They're the Klingons of the galaxy: the proud warrior race. Mostly based on Vikings. They're also fairly friendly to other races. But the one thing I did have them for is something that struck me and I wanted to put in, but it's really a kind of touchy subject. Like Vikings, they believe that the only way to get into their version of heaven is to die in battle. So one thing they have is the Pyre Ships. Basically, they're meant for one thing: ramming enemy ships in order to destroy both. The ships are staffed with the dying, giving them the chance to go out in a battle. Each clan is constantly in a friendly war with the others, playfully fighting without destruction most of the time in order to keep their skills sharp, though they do have to send some important tributes if they lose. Sometimes, accidents do happen, but it's acknowledged that they did at least get to go to the good afterlife, and the military is mainly made up of people who are willing to die but don't want to make it absolutely certain yet. But the Pyre Ships are where the main losses in battle happen. They aren't built to stand up to a real ship, so it's a diversionary tactic, or they simply ram into each other to keep the other side from doing the same.
The part where it comes into play is in the possible second galactic war. Some of the clans' ships show up - including a Pyre Ships, which is well-built to do some damage - and ask to join a battle. The protagonist freaks out. She knows that while she's about to ask people to fight and possibly die, she knows for sure that if the Pyre Ship joined, then the people onboard will definitely die. Eventually, she figures that they're probably going to do it anyway and she might as well coordinate their efforts in order to save as much of her forces as possible, but she's still really uneasy about it and blames herself for their deaths. The rest of the fleet pulls through, though whether it's because of the sacrifice is unknowable.
So the reason I bring this up is because I don't know whether to include it. I mean, on the one hand, the concept of killing people off like that is pretty terrible, but they actually do believe that that's the only way to get everyone into the good afterlife. And the government is taking steps to ensure everyone has a chance at that, unless they do something terrible, and it's strictly voluntary. In fact, they have more volunteers than space on the ships.
If I do put them in there, then I'm definitely putting some of the mixed feelings in there. Probably a good thing that I don't feel strongly one way or the other and can present both sides. Still, this might be an interesting take on morality. Or it could be a terrible thing that drives fans away. Don't know.
Oh, and there's one thing I took out. Again, before Those Vile Books. All members of the species could originally form mating bonds that would permanently tie them together, even happening with members of other species. That was because I was trying to write an ill-conceived romance and it was going horribly, so I decided to forcibly strangle them together with a red string. I took it out because putting it in caused the characters to crash the universe to stop it from happening. So that, plus the fact that it was pretty Sueish, meant that it only existed for a few chapters in the first draft of book 3.
[mirror matter] |
I've seen something similar in fiction before. Can't remember what the name of the story was, but there was a shadow-Earth about to pass through normal Earth.
I know you can't be talking about Avatar. My best guess is that you're talking about The Host, although if so, your assessment of its contents are… highly dubious. I suppose if you throw Twilight into the mix, it makes a little more sense, but not much. I don't remember sympathetic alien conquerors in it, either. |
The Host. Though the James Cameron film has its own problems.
I am not going back into that thing to pull out the relevant quotes, but one of the "love interests" says that the aliens were justified in taking over the human race - and that the human race's latent desires are responsible for their worst instincts. Then, of course, there's using someone else's body to have a romance while she's battering at the back of your skull for you to stop, which is rape. Or how about when the protagonist gets used as a punching bag and she makes excuses for him? Oh, and there's the lovely time near the end of the book where crap-Yeerk realizes that the equally insufferable one's body doesn't belong to her - it belongs to a man, so they stick her in a twelve-year-old's kewpie doll body so she can carry on a romance. At least she wasn't put in a body that's two years old or newborn, unlike some characters.
Now, maybe I'm not remembering things correctly, because that thing and Meyer's prose (she can stick her undulating anemones where the sun don't shine) was so disgusting that I barely made it through one read. But this is the same woman who identifies most with her misogynistic, genocidal, murderous hero/love interest specifically because he's so black and white (MTV Interview); thinks it's terrible to keep vampires from eating babies or enslaving the human race (Breaking Dawn); and thinks it's okay for vampires to eat people because people are short-lived, it's not terrible for people not to be vegetarians, and also feeling remorse doesn't help the families of the victims, so why bother? (Correspondence 12) Oh, and apparently vampires feel a burning hunger that is so bad that it's like literally being on fire, so it's okay to kill people. Not that that's actually in the books.
She's also gone on record as saying that she hates humans. Because apparently that's more acceptable than being anti-feminist, which she also is.
[Krasnikov tubes] |
So those are the things the Perverters are using?
[Amanda] |
That depends on your ability to keep then separate. I mean, names are pretty attached to characters, in my experience. I recently renamed a character, and it was a major pain because I associated her with that name. One of my clients cannot detach his mental image of characters from their original conception. He had no problem when the name was changed, but when the name was the same, he kept trying to write them as their original conceptions, even when it made no sense. For example, he was trying to make a character - who was A. a police officer, B. pretty smart, and C. really intolerant of bullshit to the point where he threw his own brother out of his apartment - too naive to realize that he was being manipulated into staying in a conversation he really didn't want to have. It was partly railroading, but it was partly the original conception of the character.
So if you have two characters named the same, it could cause them to be mixed up in your mind, but it might not. And it also depends on what you're going to do with your stories. The Scumthorpe stories probably aren't going to be published. If you publish the sci-fi story, then it won't be that connected with your published works unless you choose to make it that way. If you're only going to release it online under the same handle, then it probably is a good idea to change one.
My MTS writing group, The Story Board
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The Scarlet Letter? Huh. I thought that was just boring and a little too full of itself. |
Think about it. It's a book about a bunch of morons sitting around worrying about stupid things (yes, it was in a culture where those things were treated as meaningful, but they're still stupid). Seriously, that was the whole point. As I understand it, it was Hawthorne's way of making peace with the awful stupidity of his ancestors. So yeah, I kind of identified with it. I still never want to touch the blasted thing again.
Same problems, though. |
How so? They only had the one finger attached to the wing, like birds do.
Oh. You said Tolkien, not C. S. Lewis. |
In my defense, I was exhausted when I wrote that. I caught, like, over five typos.
Still not sure why I didn't catch it in editing the later post, though. Or looking back.
…but the nickname really annoys them, because it completely screws with their grammar system. |
That is frigging amazing. I mean, it makes sense, but that hardly makes it less funny.
Biologically, they're humanoid. Their home planet was extremely rough, and the weather patterns chaotic, so they have the points on the backs of their ears. They're extremely sensitive to changes in temperature and air pressure (also, tongues), so Sevalfer are pretty good at predicting sudden changes. |
Got a reason why? I think there are a number of planet types that could have that feature. What's theirs like?
Their home planet also has some pretty nasty predators… |
Any specifics on those?
Because of that, Earth humans are sort of a different species, but they're still genetically similar enough to be lumped under humans. |
So, am I right to understand that the sevalfer were the first humans? Any idea on where their home system is, galactically speaking?
Speaking of which, I alluded to this a few times before, but the Sevalfer empire is pretty much crumbling. During the beginnings of the first galactic war, a new empress took over the Sevalfer. From there, she deliberately and gleefully ran it into the ground, similar to the God-Emperor of Dune. Basically, she made a ton of new laws that promoted savagery among the nobility, oppressed the people, and just didn't make a lot of sense. A millennium later, the government is still trying to clean up the mess, but now there's a separatist movement growing that's gaining in power, and they're threatening the empire from both the inside and the outside. |
Not having read Dune, much as I hate to admit it, that analogy doesn't do much for me. On a related note, are you saying she was just irresponsible and corrupt, or was she actively trying to wreck things?
So the reason I bring this up is because I don't know whether to include it. I mean, on the one hand, the concept of killing people off like that is pretty terrible, but they actually do believe that that's the only way to get everyone into the good afterlife. And the government is taking steps to ensure everyone has a chance at that, unless they do something terrible, and it's strictly voluntary. In fact, they have more volunteers than space on the ships. If I do put them in there, then I'm definitely putting some of the mixed feelings in there. Probably a good thing that I don't feel strongly one way or the other and can present both sides. Still, this might be an interesting take on morality. Or it could be a terrible thing that drives fans away. Don't know. |
Doesn't bother me, anyway. It makes sense from the perspective of the culture, and it's interesting.
…but one of the "love interests" says that the aliens were justified in taking over the human race… |
I remember no such thing, and I've read it quite a few times. I'll keep an eye out for it on the next readthrough, but I'm skeptical.
Overall, the book paints a pretty negative picture of the Souls. Yes, it's mostly subtextual, but it's there. Mind you, that's as a society. It's much easier on individuals, and I think that's reasonable. But it's repeatedly stated that what they do is akin to murder. It just doesn't stop at "these people are evil, end of story".
Honestly, the implied psychological evaluation of the ecological niche they occupy is one of the things I enjoy about the book. No other work I've seen paints such a complex and interesting picture of such a creature, though Animorphs is an extremely strong contender. The image I consistently get is that the Souls' basic nature drills two conflicting messages into them. On one hand, the fact that they interface directly with the minds of other beings gives them a strong sense of empathy. On the other hand, they also basically have to do it to survive, and that normally means taking a life, something they're generally vehemently opposed to. The result is that evolution has left them with the burden of this massive cognitive dissonance, which has led to them constructing a supremacist, quasi-religious, holier-than-thou philosophical system to justify it. The genetic memory of the species and their terrible, terrible committal to cultural stasis helps perpetuate it. Wanderer's character arc largely involves her reacting as the lies she and all the other Souls have told themselves crumble before her when exposed to a wider cultural perspective.
…and that the human race's latent desires are responsible for their worst instincts. |
I actually do seem to recall that line, but as dubious an idea as it is, it doesn't exactly ruin the book.
Then, of course, there's using someone else's body to have a romance while she's battering at the back of your skull for you to stop, which is rape. |
More like sexual assault, really, which is terrible, but isn't rape. In Melanie's body, it never goes further than kissing. And it's not exactly portrayed as a good thing. Wanderer is actively resistant (admittedly, that reflects poorly on Ian, but it's not exactly hard to believe that most of the very few remaining humans in the U.S. have a bad grasp of sexual ethics, given the current situation in the country), and apologises profusely to Melanie afterward. Upon reflection, Ian apologises, as well, though his is more of an afterthought and less satisfying. Really, it's not even remotely good, but it's not as terrible as you're suggesting. I certainly wouldn't say it's romanticised.
That said, it's a lot sketchier in Pet's body. That is a bit creepier. On one hand, there's the strong probability that the original mind is essentially irretrievable. On the other hand, they have no way of knowing for sure, and even if it is, you could make quite a strong argument that a sexual use of the body would be akin to necrophilia. Still, though, one moment of dubious but highly convoluted ethics is hardly enough to put me off the book, when it's got so much stuff to like.
Or how about when the protagonist gets used as a punching bag and she makes excuses for him? |
Yeah, there are a couple problems with that example, assuming you're referring to Kyle. Firstly, none of the context that would make a moment like that really abominable is there. It's not trying to justify abuse in any way. Wanderer knows that telling the truth about the situation would basically be a death sentence for not just Kyle, but potentially the rest of the colony. She doesn't want to be responsible for anyone's death.
Secondly, her refusal to defend herself, and to a lesser degree, her subsequent defense of him, is pretty clearly portrayed as stupid and irrational.
Or are you referring to Jared hitting her when she first arrived? Firstly, it was Melanie making excuses for him, as I recall. Despite her clinging to her infatuation with him, Wanderer was a lot more rational. She didn't strictly blame him, but that comes to the other point: as far as Jared was concerned, his girlfriend was dead. He punched out the thing that killed her, stole her body, and brought it back to gloat in his face. Well-thought-out? No. Domestic abuse? I'd be extremely hesitant to call it that.
Oh, and there's the lovely time near the end of the book where crap-Yeerk realizes that the equally insufferable one's body doesn't belong to her - it belongs to a man… |
It's possible she may have made some stupid comment to that effect, but I remember her quite heavily emphasising Melanie's right to her own body.
so they stick her in a twelve-year-old's kewpie doll body so she can carry on a romance. |
Pet was sixteen, going on seventeen. Admittedly, that's below the age of consent in Arizona, but not in most of the developed world, including most of the U.S. And really, given that Wanderer is fully mature, the body's age is only really relevant so far as it pertains to the original mind, which, as noted above, is a concern, but given that said body was, again, almost seventeen, the bigger issue at hand is the unauthorised use.
She's also gone on record as saying that she hates humans. Because apparently that's more acceptable than being anti-feminist, which she also is. |
Even if the author isn't a great person, that doesn't necessarily make the work bad. Example: Orson Scott Card and Ender's Game, which was, interestingly enough, implied by Meyer to be an inspiration. Yes, there may be some bad ethics within the text of the book itself, but again, even if that's the case, the work as a whole is good enough that it doesn't really matter, at least to me.
So those are the things the Perverters are using? |
Maybe? I don't remember what I had in mind. Probably not, actually. The idea was that the tech was alien to both sides of the war. They probably either use a modified form of the Alcubierre drive or tachyon condensation fields. But I suppose they could be using them. Gaining the technology would be advantageous to the SU whether the enemy had it or not. Still, if they did, I think Union scientists might have been able to reverse engineer it from starship corpses (that's a phrase you don't hear every day.)
So if you have two characters named the same, it could cause them to be mixed up in your mind, but it might not. And it also depends on what you're going to do with your stories. The Scumthorpe stories probably aren't going to be published. If you publish the sci-fi story, then it won't be that connected with your published works unless you choose to make it that way. If you're only going to release it online under the same handle, then it probably is a good idea to change one. |
Possible, but doubtful. Hmm. I suppose, now that I think about it, I should put artistic quality over stupid jokes. The Rome backstory is kind of important. Amanda Al-Phosphor shall now be Roshan Al-Phosphor.
I finally fit it all in (!):
It's after [the unlocking of the Bimini Rift] is successful that I move on to one of the arcs that I feel most uncomfortable with. It's thoroughly entrenched in the story by this point, but at the same time, it's exactly the sort of crap I hate to see in a story. It messes with the readers' understanding of events in a thoroughly unpleasant way, and it's really sort of trippy. It also has the potential to come across as a cop-out, and in a way, that's true; if I recall correctly, I came up with it by plotting normally and then realising that the way things had turned was really dark. But to be honest, I'm most worried about the mind screw elements.
Okay, so basically, as the ship is just about to enter the central part of the debris field, a weird feeling comes across the protagonist (Saira Ericson, so-named because I named her on Leif Erikson day), almost like deja vu. But nothing else seems out of the ordinary, so she brushes it off, and they enter the tube.
The next parts of the story focus on the initial exploration of what's on the other side. You see, the particular method that the Makemakeans discovered involved anchoring the tubes to the spacetime of a subspatial enclave of our own dimension, paraspace. The Union is able to implement the drive into their ships, but weird things start happening pretty quickly. It seems that paraspace is inhabited. In fact, you might even call it haunted. People are having constant, paranoid feelings of being watched, they're spotting UFOs, and sometimes they even spot strange creatures. The more time one spends in paraspace, it seems, the more things start turning into something out of a creepy urban legend.
Eventually, it's discovered what's going on. You see, there's some kind of door in spacetime located somewhere in paraspace, and for some unknown reason, the Descendants were really determined to ensure that no one should see what's on the other side. As such, they created a genetically-engineered race of… basically driders, to be honest, called the Watchers. They were entrusted with the task of making sure that absolutely no one caught even a glimpse of what was on the other side of that doorway (they themselves were permitted, however). As such, they've been creating illusions to scare off intruders.
It occurs to me at this point that I should probably describe my main characters.
Saira Ericson. Human. Gay, Iranian, Muslim, female. The rich daughter of an important politician, who has settled on the questionably intelligent hobby/career of interstellar exploration. Part of a crew of three. Flies around in a ship called Ithaca's Champion.
Alex. Surname as-of-yet undetermined. Human. Nationality undetermined. Straight, irreligious, male. Saira's best friend and crewmate. Believes strongly in the importance of science and learning, as well as the freedom of information. (Was a ripoff of several characters of the same name from varying sources until he grew a personality; like I say, I'm not great with male characters.)
Parvati, or Parve for short. Surname as-of-yet undetermined. Europan. Minus type, all
Anyway, so the Watchers agree to help with the war effort, so long as the Union forces agree not to approach the spacetime rift they're guarding. (This is probably a much easier sell for the fact that the Perverters have entered paraspace and are tearing up the place.) Anyway, my plans kind of get vague here, but basically, the war takes a long time but is eventually won, Alex and Parvati get married, and Saira ends up in a very serious relationship with one of the Watchers, Emigrant, or Emma, for short. (The Watchers get their names in a manner not dissimilar to the sídhe; the difference is that their names actually have significance, though they're sometimes misleading.)
Then things start sucking. Alex gets fed up with the secrecy and decides that the Descendants have no right to boss us around. He decides he's going to personally go to the door and check it out. Saira tries to dissuade him, but he's not budging, they get into a big fight, things escalate, and Saira ends up shooting him dead just as he gazes through the portal. She's so dazed with shock and guilt that she doesn't even bother to resist as Parvati, furious, heartbroken, and mad with grief, arrives on the scene and kills her.
Suddenly, she's back on her ship on the edge of the Bimini Rift, just before they enter the heart of the debris field. Everything's silent and strangely still. Emma is there, though, and she explains. Basically, the Watchers have far more power than they had let on—not omniscience, but much closer than anyone else had imagined. This includes precognition. Pretty much every scenario they looked at where Union forces entered paraspace ended in tragedy. The one Saira just experienced was one of the milder ones. As such, they decided to project her mind into an alternate universe to show her what they were seeing. Emigrant underwent the same process, to ensure that Saira wouldn't alone… and also due to romantic curiosity. Mostly the latter, really. She then says that as much as she doesn't want to lose her, Saira is going to have to delete the navigational data. Emma promises that another way to win the war will soon present itself. Saira is then returned to real time, where she sadly complies, much to the bafflement of her crewmates.
So, again, I have two problems with this storyline:
First, it's trippy in a bad way. It screws with the reader's understanding of the story on a fundamental level. I know it's an accepted practice which is considered artsy and fashionable or whatever, but I've always hated it. It feels like a cheap shot. It's taking the story and messing it up for shock value, basically. That said, I think this plot might work if it were condensed into a single novel.
Second, I'm worried that it could be interpreted as a cop-out. "Whoops, guess I just turned evil. To the reset button!" I don't see it that way, because it wasn't an illusion. She murdered a real person, her best friend no less. It happened in another universe, but it was no less real.
And on that note, is that taking moral edginess too far? I mean, while, my obsessive-compulsive obsession with rules aside, I don't personally believe in irredeemability, but that's a minority view in this culture. I often hear about people losing the ability to sympathise with a character if they do something repugnant. I mean, I guess I could rework it so that the tragedy doesn't come at Saira's hands. But to me, that does feel like a cop-out.
Anyway, I'll continue on to discussing the next storylines at a later time. This is all I wrote.
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Think about it. It's a book about a bunch of morons sitting around worrying about stupid things (yes, it was in a culture where those things were treated as meaningful, but they're still stupid). Seriously, that was the whole point. As I understand it, it was Hawthorne's way of making peace with the awful stupidity of his ancestors. So yeah, I kind of identified with it. I still never want to touch the blasted thing again. |
Ah. I did dislike it for the same reasons, but I didn't really identify with it.
How so? They only had the one finger attached to the wing, like birds do. |
Pterosaur wings are not like birds'. They were quadrupeds. They used their wings as legs.
That is frigging amazing. I mean, it makes sense, but that hardly makes it less funny. |
(It's probably terrible when you consider that I based them on Nazis and then made them Grammar Nazis, to the point where they invented an extremely complicated language just so they could snob at everyone else.)
Got a reason why? I think there are a number of planet types that could have that feature. What's theirs like? So, am I right to understand that the sevalfer were the first humans? Any idea on where their home system is, galactically speaking? |
The idea I had was that their planet didn't have an entirely stable rotation. The orbit is fine, but the planet tends to spin in random directions. One day, it could be doing a perfectly normal westward 24-hour rotation, and the next, the poles are pointing at the sun for a week straight. The planet is close to the galactic core (in the root of the Orion arm), so I was thinking that could make things wonky.
Anyway, weather is influenced by heat from the sun. The heat increases air pressure, which causes it to flow to areas with less pressure in the form of wind, and it evaporates water to make it fly up into the sky and become clouds. If the sun vanished one day, we'd probably lose all weather - not even getting snow. So if the rotation is completely random, then the sun will be heating up random spots. Could mean that one area gets 10 days of pure sunlight, which would mean they have pretty bad sunburns, while the twilight region would be getting a lot of wind - and possibly storms - while the other side could possibly get hurricanes or tornadoes.
The unstable rotation would also mean that they have to be pretty tough. The things on the planet are experiencing both centripetal force (inward) and centrifugal (outward). The rotation provides centrifugal while gravity is centripetal. Get rid of the rotation and gravity will probably have a little more of an effect.
Of course, that's entirely speculative.
That would be why pretty much nobody lives on the homeworld anymore. Once they found planets with nice, stable rotations, they all left for those. The homeworld is a protected planet, sort of a site for pilgrimages, but it's fairly deserted except for tourist sites.
And to answer your question, first humanoids in the galaxy. I wouldn't call them human, since they're so biologically different from humans, and I'm not sure if they're actually the same species or not. I mean, the current working definition is whether they can have fertile offspring. Female Sevalfer can with male humans, but not the other way around. And while humans tend to be more compatible with the other species,* the offspring is still going to have a lot of genetic problems.
And they don't have a common base; all the races are different animals evolved to become more like Sevalfer.
*The other races are specialized for specific environments, and those are what cause a lot of incompatibilities. For example, Adonai have torsos filled with muscle, while Aquavians have a second set of lungs for the water - put them together, and you get muscles growing through lungs, the lower half of the body having too many organs and not enough room to breathe properly, muscular or bone deformation, incomplete wings or lungs, lungs that will explode or impode at the wrong pressures, etc.
Humans, though, are built to endure in as many environments as possible - though in air and underwater are still problems for obvious reasons. Since there aren't many specializations, there's less chance of theirs interfering with others. Sevalfer are also very compatible, since they're the base race.
In Five Races format, it would look sort of like this:
Mundane: Sevalfer
Stout: Canids (they're physically the toughest and tend to rely on brute force)
High Men: Aquavian (because they're the ones constantly trying to improve, and that's my ideal)
Fairy: Adonai (because they're "angels", at the edge of humanoid limits and can be as nasty as the fae)
Cute (though Crafty would fit better): Humans
Could also put Aquavians as the Stout, because they're the techy ones, and Canids as Mundane as they're the least technologically-inclined. That would put Sevalfer as High Men, but Sevalfer suck at being High Men and I don't want to put them in the traditional elf roles.
Any specifics on those? |
The area they started off in is sort of a jungle, with all those lovely hazards. You know, armies of devouring insects, poisonous reptiles, and such. Basically, things are either small and can kill you or big and can kill you.
Then there would be the megafauna. A lot of life on the planet is pretty big. The jungles are an exception, since smaller, faster things survive easier, like the Sev.
Also, dragons. Not the flying kind, but they're still reptiles that can sort of breathe fire. The Adonai actually do have flying reptiles similar to dragon legends, but they're smaller than the average housecat. They're pets.
Not having read Dune, much as I hate to admit it, that analogy doesn't do much for me. On a related note, are you saying she was just irresponsible and corrupt, or was she actively trying to wreck things? |
The god-emperor, Leto II, knew that humanity needed a reason to spread out and become less centralized, because they weren't doing that much of it and he was worried that they would all get wiped out. Plus, the people with superpowers (the spice-users) were running conspiracies and orchestrating far too much. So he made himself immortal and then began severely restricting the people. After a while, the rebels managed to breed a woman who couldn't be seen by spice abilities, and she killed him. After that, humanity burst outward and began expansion - and the conspiracies lost a lot of power.
She was actively trying to wreck things. A few posts back, I said that the current empress was a hybrid pretending to be full Sevalfer. This one would be her mother.
Basically, near the beginning of the first galactic war, a group found a half-Sevalfer, half-Canid woman. Extremely deformed, but she had strong telepathic abilities. The Sevalfer had been trying to create genetic information for that, and one of the people with those genes got captured by the Canids and a baby resulted. Anyway, they took her and studied her to figure out how to duplicate it. Turns out she was missing a Sevalfer gene that was inhibiting the telepathic gene, but a few Canid ones were also giving it a boost. However, some of her birth defects were killing her, so they decided to breed her back to get more stable individuals to study. They managed to get some genes for telepathy, and one that gave healing abilities (or, the ability to hack into the body's electricity and tell the cells to reproduce faster).
After the genes were lifted off of the offspring and put into volunteers, they didn't have much of a use for the kids, so instead they used them as test subjects.
You can probably guess where this is going. Test subject breaks free and vows to destroy its creators. This one - the healer - decided to gain a following and take over an empire. Once she was in charge, she immediately began trying to break it. All she had to do, really, was make the existing problems worse: giving the nobility whatever they wanted in order to maintain a power base, oppressing the people thoroughly until they were pissed, encouraging the existing xenophobia, allying with the extreme zealots instead of the people with rapidly advancing technology so that they'd do worse in the war, etc.
The final part of the plan had been to reveal that the family were all hybrids, which would cause a massive outrage, and probably get everyone related to them ousted from power. Most of the higher-ranking nobility were related to the empress in some way, because of nepotism. It also wouldn't have helped that some of them had kids out of wedlock, meaning that there could be a witch hunt for any remaining family members.
That would leave a massive power vacuum, so the lesser nobles would all be making a power grabs, dividing into groups, and probably ending up with a lot of smaller warring nations. That would have been a success, except it didn't happen.
Unfortunately for her, one of her younger daughters* also figured how to run things. There was an uprising, but the daughter was at the head of it, making herself the new empress. The old empress hid on an uninhabited planet and died** when it got blown up. The empire was brought back from the brink of destruction, but it's still feeling the effects of what happened, and it's crumbling. There are separatist groups rapidly gaining power and giving the empire a brain drain, the nobility is refusing to take down some of the laws that are wrecking things because they think it's a power grab, and the empress herself is really trying to keep her power more than help the people.
Not to mention that, like I mentioned in an earlier post, the current empress has a very shaky power base. Not only is she the kid of the person who screwed things up that badly - meaning that she's blamed for a lot of problems that began - but she's a hybrid running an empire that's fanatic about racial purity. And she's not 7/8ths Sevalfer, either, because her mother figured that having kids with members of other races would get the kids to be more obviously non-pure-Sevalfer. She can pass, but examining her genetics in any way will probably tip everyone off.
Basically, poking things the wrong way will pretty much destroy everything. And my characters tend to be fond of poking at things.
*Forgot to mention something in the last post. Sevalfer give their estates to the youngest adult daughter, not the oldest. Since they live around 1,000 years and start having kids at 100, the oldest children are usually pretty old by the time their parents die of old age. Instead, the youngest children get the bulk of it, since they're the ones that aren't established in life. The current empress shouldn't technically have inherited - she had younger sisters - but she had an army on her side.
**OR DID SHE? *dramatic sting*
Technically, she's dead. Her body, at least, was destroyed. But I do have plans for her to show up again. Before hiding on the planet, she uploaded her brain to a pod designed to clone her a new body and left her old body behind on the planet to be controlled by a computer - she was old enough to go senile, so that probably wouldn't have seemed too strange. It was programmed to have a heart attack if anyone tried to take it too far from the controlling computer, but that didn't matter, since they just blew up the entire thing. So she's still out there, and... well, I did say that the theme of the series was about my main character suffering in unusual ways.
I'm not going to continue the discussion on The Host, because that book, its sisters, and its hack author all disgust me and I don't want to have to go back into it for this. I'll go into Twilight and rip that thing apart, but I'm staying away from The Host.
Maybe? I don't remember what I had in mind. Probably not, actually. The idea was that the tech was alien to both sides of the war. They probably either use a modified form of the Alcubierre drive or tachyon condensation fields. But I suppose they could be using them. Gaining the technology would be advantageous to the SU whether the enemy had it or not. Still, if they did, I think Union scientists might have been able to reverse engineer it from starship corpses (that's a phrase you don't hear every day.) |
Ah. I didn't really see the connection between that and the war, and I figured the beings that took the Makemake technology would have access to that, so that was why I asked.
Tachyon condensation fields as a means of propulsion?
Parvati, or Parve for short. Surname as-of-yet undetermined. Europan. Minus type, all |
If I understand correctly, the Europans are essentially jellyfish colonies. Do they have a single mind to work with, is Parvati a single one, or are they hoping for a two-body orgy?
First, it's trippy in a bad way. It screws with the reader's understanding of the story on a fundamental level. I know it's an accepted practice which is considered artsy and fashionable or whatever, but I've always hated it. It feels like a cheap shot. It's taking the story and messing it up for shock value, basically. That said, I think this plot might work if it were condensed into a single novel. |
Yes. The All a Dream trope is pretty terrible.
Wait, you were going to do that more than one book afterwards? That would be bad.
That being said, it could work if it has more meaning than just shock value. I'm thinking of a few episodes that work from sci-fi. They can be grouped in three categories: breakouts, emotional distress, and plot advancement. Breakouts are when the cause - like time loops or illusions - has the characters trapped. Emotional distress - when they see the horrible things happening and it affects them badly. Plot advancement is usually when they get valuable information from what they see and use it later.
Suppose this was a Breakout novel. The crew meets the Watchers, ends the war, and Alex looks in. The Watchers beam over Saira and Parvati and destroy the ship, but not before something comes through, and then it starts using Alex's body to wreak havoc. Time reset. Saira then tries to shoot Alex before he looks in. Also fails, and Parvati shoots her, but Saira still gets a front-row seat to the destruction. Time reset. Saira manages to stop the ship from going near the rift, but someone else goes over there. Time reset. This the Watchers declare war on the SU and wipe them out - leaving the protagonists alive to watch everything get destroyed. Time reset. And so on. Over and over again until one of two things happens: 1. Saira finally realizes that the only way to stop this from happening is to just fly away. 2. Saira realizes that Emma is also reliving events. Cue the reveal, except the Watchers were trying to see if giving Saira their knowledge of events and forcing her to live through them would give them a way to avert disaster.
Second, I'm worried that it could be interpreted as a cop-out. "Whoops, guess I just turned evil. To the reset button!" I don't see it that way, because it wasn't an illusion. She murdered a real person, her best friend no less. It happened in another universe, but it was no less real. |
As long as you show the consequences of what happened, then it's not really the reset button. I mean, does she feel so guilty about what happened that it interferes with her ability to do her job or look at her friend? Is she now afraid of Parvati, with some PTSD from her alternate self's death?
Though you did say that you don't like dark psychology, so maybe not.
And on that note, is that taking moral edginess too far? I mean, while, my obsessive-compulsive obsession with rules aside, I don't personally believe in irredeemability, but that's a minority view in this culture. I often hear about people losing the ability to sympathise with a character if they do something repugnant. I mean, I guess I could rework it so that the tragedy doesn't come at Saira's hands. But to me, that does feel like a cop-out. |
I wouldn't consider that necessarily a terrible thing. I mean, what would have happened if Alex had looked in and gotten away with that? Would the Watchers have destroyed him to ensure knowledge didn't get out - maybe leading to a war between the Watchers and the SU, and one that could destroy a weakened SU? If the Watchers help end the war within a single novel and a short amount of time, then that would be a big threat. Or maybe the rift itself is a threat, and looking in or using it will cause a lot of harm.
If the possible consequences are terrible enough, then Saira killing her best friend would be horrible, but protecting everyone else would be a bigger priority.
If you did go with it, I would suggest that she doesn't immediately get killed, but watches the consequences of Alex's brief peek. War, destruction of space-time, eldritch abomination finding its way into our universe, or whatever the problem with the rift is.
'Course, that would be even more horrible. Not only does she have to kill her best friend to save everyone, but she fails at protecting the universe.
But as-is, the 'tragedy' is mostly two people dying. I mean, that's bad, but why would the Watchers prevent the SU from helping them keep the Perverters from tearing up paraspace just because of two people? I don't know what the Perverters are doing - messing with the fabric of space-time? Killing off species? - but that really doesn't sound good.
And yes, I know that's one of the mild ones and maybe the one that would hit Saira the hardest, but if they know the factors that lead to a mild one, then why not influence those into happening? And maybe zap Alex's brain into staying away from the rift.
Maybe I'm being a little ruthless here, but the situation does sound serious enough to warrant some mild brainwashing.
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