Nice! And deservedly!

Growing up playing Sims 2 and realizing as an adult that my body type is the 'fat' adult female and how ridiculous 2000s beauty standards were. For context, I'm a size M, tall and often called slim or athletic, but I look exactly like the 'fat' adult when I'm relaxed after lunch. As a kid I though it was genuinely fat and the thumbnail showed an obese person. I'm happy that I wasn't a teen in the 2000s cause that kind of mentality would've destroyed me.

Edit: teen female 'fat' is even chubby, it's literally a size small/medium and the majority of my teen girl sims are 'fat' while only the skinny model sims are 'nomal'. I also use new meshes for both ages with wider hips and thicker legs which are closer to the fat shape.

I don't think I ever thought the TS2 "fat" sims were fat, but I agree that the 2000s body standards were absolutely insane! It all seemed to get worse and worse and reach a peak and then someone was like no, no more of this.

I think this was more to do with the restrictions of the game- Maxis couldn't afford the extra animations that would have been neccessitated by adding larger bodies, so chose to keep the 'fat' model quite slim. You can see the problems they would have had if you play with some of the custom large bodyshapes. For a similar reason they just have one height for each age stage. Even in 2004 I thought the 'fat' body wasn't fat (and that seemed to be the consensus amongst players on the forums I frequented) - so I don't think beauty standards then were any more ridiculous than they are now.

Yeah 'fat shaming' is unfortunately still just as much of a thing. DX

I wonder how TS3 onwards managed animations with their greater body varieties.

I'm fully aware of that and I actually have "fat suits" for every age except toddlers. GTA San Adreas did a good job for CJ but there are less animations in that game. Sims 3 sims move a bit unnaturally and stand way too far from stuff which is probably the price of making it obese and body builder friendly. As for Sims 2, it was unnecessary to have an obese thumbnail and more appropriate to name it chubby or thin and average. Although you had common sense not to consider it fat, it does perfectly intertwine with the mentality in early 2000s pop culture of calling everyone who is above size small fat.

That's not a 2000s thing lol. Look at 'plus size' models nowadays, who aren't plus size at all; they just aren't anorexic.

The male fat morph is definitely fat. Beer belly lol.

I wouldn't assign it to malice, in this case. I think it's worth considering that at the time agendas/ideals weren't the primary focus of games. The goal was to make a good and fun game that people would buy. It is a modern thing to look at everything as "Oh look, they're doing this on purpose to exclude XYZ", where as back then that wasn't the thought process of the developers. They just wanted to make a good, fun and fictional game.

It's one of the many reasons I prefer older games: It's not about pushing politics/agendas/ideals, it's about making a fun game to play.

Nobody thinks they were deliberately excluding or vilifying anyone, dear.

The problem is that we live in a world of systematized 'isms and when we don't stop to consciously examine our assumptions, look at the real world (instead of at our presumptions about it), and act to include what is excluded by the systems we live in, we exclude almost everybody when we only intend to make a fun game to play. It's not being nitpicky, mean, or judgemental to say: "I am not reflected by this game, which makes it less fun for me, so how do we get my reflection in there?"

People don't choose their prejudices; but they can choose to overcome them. And corporations, by and large, won't choose to overcome them without a financial incentive.

I think we'd all like the base game to come with a couple of more body types, skins, and a few more hairstyles. Just for gameplay, if the Sims 2 had that, it would be almost perfect.

In addition to Superstar and Making Magic expansions.

I'd have no issues if it was included. That'd be fine by me.


Personally, I play games to escape the real world and all its problems, even if momentarily and only in game. So, focusing purely on real world issues without a bit of 'tongue in cheek' to it kind of breaks that. Because now, you can't escape the real world in the game, because it's there too. I am obese, but I would not want to play a character who is that way. My best friend who is wheelchair bound (has been her whole life) often jokes about how they want to add wheelchair characters to games, she simply says "Why would I want to play a character that's in a wheelchair? I don't want to be in a wheelchair!"

I think it's just a different mentality overall.

^ People's playstyles are as different as each person. Some people want to see a more accurate representation of themselves when making characters (body type, skintones, disability aides, etc.), while others prefer escapism and make characters very unlike themselves (switching up some or all parameters - gender, body type, skin, hair color, playing as an animalistic or fantasy inspired character, or what have you). And some people want a bit of everything.

Yeah, everyone should get to pick and choose which bits of reality they want in their game and which bits they'd rather ignore for it. And on the flip side, having something in your game doesn't mean you'd approve of it in real life.

What reality? The reality of fat people?

I'm not telling people how to play their game. I'm pointing out that dismissing discontent about things like bodyshape, whitewashing, etc. because the developers weren't thinking about being discriminatory but about making a fun game is confirming the point and being rude to those who object to being left unrepresented. Nobody's trying to be a killjoy or make you feel guilty - we just don't want our feeling of rejection laughed off by people who've never looked anywhere and not seen their self and their own reflection.

You can have a fun game with obese people in it! Nothing about fatness detracts from the fun! If the developers had thought about it for five seconds they'd have realized that! But the company had no financial incentive to make them consider it, and the systemic fatphobia was baked into the game, with fears of getting fat (I have a fear of losing weight, myself, and if you'd ever seen someone go through a period of wasting, so would you!) and a "fit" shape that is too skinny to support the muscular structure necessary for strength, and painted-on abs - if you can see someone's abs, they're not doing well, get 'em a drink. Since then nutritionists and fat people of the world have raised awareness of the issue and demand has risen for more body diversity in sims, so we're getting it in the later ones. With inferior gameplay, alas, but that's not related to the bodyshapes.

If we don't talk about it, we don't get improvement. If you feel like you're being blamed, scolded, or talked at - think about why that might be, when someone is clearly talking generally and not about you. Dismantling systemic oppressions starts in our own heads. And it's a lifelong job.

Both the fit and fat states are just so half-done that I sometimes wonder if Maxis forgot about them until after most of the animation work was done.