Hi! I'm glad to hear you're enjoying the challenge so far!

-I've never really thought too much about kids born out of wedlock, but that's an interesting idea. I would say that if you want to put restrictions on that, just go with whatever seems right to you.
-I believe you can visit the lot later (once someone moves in) and drag the urn/headstone into your inventory, but I'm not sure. Regardless, you only have to display the graves of Sims who were part of the "main" household when they died. I like to keep my ancestors and the Sims who were integral to the challenge on the lot until they die (sometimes a tragic death that I definitely had nothing to do with... ) so that the graveyard can be really fleshed out. It's worth testing to see if you can grab headstones from other houses you don't own, though.

Thanks, I'll try that out with the headstones. A random NPC actually just died and left a headstone right outside my lot, so he'll make a good guinea pig (though maybe public land is different from another household's lot, not sure). If it doesn't work, do you think it would be acceptable to control another household just long enough to have some sim place the headstone at the community graveyard? Not a big deal if not, it just irks my completionist soul to not have ALL my challenge sims in the graveyard, haha.

I'll give some thought to the kids out of wedlock thing. They always existed so it seems interesting to allow it (and lets some of my young sims embrace their wilder sides...), though it probably makes sense to have some social consequences back in the early eras, like for affairs.

Thanks again!

Controlling another household for that would be fine, it's only restricted because if you play them for too long your challenge household can get jobs, have kids, etc. without your control. I honestly just hadn't thought about kids born out of wedlock. Let me know what rules you put in place (if any) and how it turns out!

The one issue i have is that in prehistoric eras, early humans lived in polyamorous, sexually diverse groups, so the restriction on same-sex relationships is unrealistic. i have a feeling this might be a leftover error from a previous version, but i just wanted to make the correction.

This topic has had a lot of discussion, including in the Prehistoric Era. I think Cloudseeker (and myself) tried to run with the idea of there being polyamory in this Era, but wanted to make the opening up of same-sex relationships later in the challenge feel like a bigger change as you "unlock" more ways to play. This has been so highly requested though, that I am considering changing it for this Era. Enlighten me, though, on what exactly it should be. I understand the polyamory and that perhaps males would take male partners, but I was under the impression that misogyny was also a contributing factor--the dominant males "owned" the women of their tribe, so to speak. This understanding would then mean that males could have as many relationships with any gender they wanted, while women would be bound to only having their one partner as they belonged to only one male. Perhaps they would have relations with other women that male wanted to be with, but those relationships wouldn't be romantic.

Please don't be offended by my breakdown of this--I'm not in any way, shape, or form a history buff. I've done a bit of research on things added since I've taken over the challenge, but mostly left the original rules in place unless they desperately needed changed. I'm sure my experience with numerous adult-themed Skyrim mods is also not helping to foster an accurate understanding of history. If the Prehistoric Era's romance rules are truly that incorrect, I'll take a look into it and see what I can find. However, I would still completely restrict those relationships once more in the Early Civilization Era, as the idea of marriage (enforced by religion) introduced many restrictions and taboos of its own, historically.

The idea of prehistoric societies being misogynistic is primarily due to the researchers projecting their biases. Because there are no written records of that era, researchers rely upon excavated artifacts and cave paintings. However, further investigation pointed to the majority of artists being women. Additionally, women were the ones developing language while the men went out to hunt. Also additionally, the concept of a strict "men hunted, women took care of babies" is also false. Women also hunted and men also took care of babies.

And guess who were the ones who traveled to seek out new partners (and prevent inbreeding)? It was usually the women.

I apologize if my manner of speech is choppy; I'm not very elegant with words.

Ah okay, thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll likely look at revamping the relationship sections in the next patch. Were there any other Eras that seemed wrong to you in the relationship rules or had something you would add?

Everything else seems fine! Thank you for listening

I've been doing some thinking as I play through the prehistoric era, and I decided on some rules I'm going to use for illegitimate children for my own game for Early Civ through Roaring 20s:

If the mother is in the household, she may:

1. Move out with the baby before or immediately following the birth
2. Get married to any male sim before the birth, he'll never know! (mother and baby may remain in the household)
3. Hide inside home from before 2nd trimester until baby is born, then give baby to a children's home (mother may remain in household unless she or baby are seen by any non-household sim before the baby moves out)*

* this would require placing a "children's home" type household in the world with some adult caretaker

If the father is in the household (because he should face consequences too!), he may:

1. Marry the mother before the birth
2. Use cheats to reduce household funds by X for secret maintenance of mother/child*

* X = Early Civ: 2k, Middle Ages: 4k, Old West: 8k, Industrial: 16k, Roaring 20s: 32k (not sure if these are logical amounts, but I'm going to feel it out)

I know this is way more complex than most challenge rules, so probably not everyone's cup of tea. A simpler version would be to just make the mother move out, like for affairs -- but I like the multiple different story options this gives and that it's a bit more fair to female sims, while hopefully still being challenging. I'll let you know how it goes!

(FWIW I agree with the recent suggestion on opening the Prehistoric Era to same sex relationships -- any way to be more inclusive of us queer players would be awesome )

I wasn't ever trying to be exclusive--just trying to find a happy medium between historically accurate and inclusive. The relationships used to be waaaay more restricted before I updated the rules last summer.

Never said you were! Just that it's nice to see new ways to strike that balance Again, I've been enjoying this challenge a lot as it is now.

I may have skipped over this in the challenge rules, but I need some clarification on accurately calculating how much money is made per era. Do we simply count family funds, or do we also include the value of the challenge lot? I've already built quite a bit during the early civ era as money is freed up, so it makes sense to me that the final lot value be included. But I don't want to input the wrong value on the challenge sheet.

Another question: I know we can't sell the fish, but what do we do when they start to rot in our inventories? Just sell them and then subtract the funds with a money cheat?

When calculating the funds for each era, the most important thing is that you take the starting and ending funds from the same moment in time (respective to each era). I usually take, for example, the amount of cash on hand plus the lot value at the end of the Prehistoric Era as the starting point for Early Civ. You would then want to take the cash on hand plus the lot value once you've finished Early Civ, and so on. If you always bulldoze your lots at the end of each era that can make it a bit easier to calculate the family's net worth.

In regards to things you "can't" sell, there aren't any. In the Prehistoric Era, you have a goal to make money from selling rocks, fossils, frogs, and woodworking. This in no way means you can't sell paintings, fish, herbal remedies, and plants during this era--it just means those things don't count toward the goal. I usually save one of each fish (mount them on the wall) so that I can display them in my Early Civ home for the collectibles goal. Everything else I'll sell, except the ones I need for food. Fish don't count toward the goal anymore because it was forcing people to choose between selling or eating the fish, and plants don't count because you can make a ridiculous amount of money from them.

Hope that helps! Let me know if there's anything else you need help with.

This looks like so much fun! One thing I found is that both notebook mods recommended are outdated. Idk if there's any others that will fit, but wanted to let you know. Thanks so much for keeping this challenge updated!

Any update for Get Famous?

I'm actually considering giving this challenge a much more substantial update than just adding rules for Get Famous. However, with what I've played of the pack I think the celebrity system would be really intrusive and forcefully break the immersion for a lot of players with all the paparazzi and Sims pulling out their phones whenever they're near you. That being said, I do like the idea of being a famous family throughout the ages, maybe starting as early as the Middle Ages Era. Most of the rest of the stuff in this pack is very modern, including the acting career--though I would probably allow that one in the Roaring 20's Era since acting in movie productions, etc, was starting to boom in that time Era.

Edit: Also, sorry for the late reply, I have been checking this but didn't get the usual notification that there were unread messages.

I just started the challenge and have turned off Celebrity for this save. I looked around Del Sol Valley after I bulldozed it, and I can't even see allowing my sims just to visit there, let alone live there until the 20s or so. It's just too cluttered with modern stuff.

I know it's taken me forever, but I've updated the challenge for Get Famous, along with some other general updates.

Change Log (1/7/19)
Update for Get Famous and game version 1.48

• I am reverting the rule added in the last update that disallowed the use of crafted toilets and bathtubs in the Prehistoric Era.
  -While this will be less realistic, messing with pools and toddler pools all the time is far more frustrating than Prehistoric Sims having some kind of plumbing system. Toddler pools will still be allowed in this Era, so you can choose not to use bathtubs if you wish.
  -This means that the Challenge-Wide rule that your Sims may use anything they craft is once again in effect.
  -This effects toilets/toilet bushes too, as I know the toilet bushes can be a pain to deal with if you have your pet getting sick all the time from them. Now you’ll have the option to use real toilets instead, once your handiness skill is high enough.
• Challenge-Wide Rule: Your Sims may visit a community lot as needed to purchase wellness treats to keep your pets healthy. Only the wellness treat may be bought here.
  -Pet health was always kinda iffy with how it would work in this challenge, so I’ve decided to let you visit a community lot (probably a vet clinic, but the lot type really doesn’t matter) where you can buy treats for your pets.
  -The wellness treat you can buy here is a preventative measure--as far as I know, it won’t cure your pets if they’re already sick.
• Challenge-Wide Rule: Your Sims may not participate in the random “Lottery” holiday or buy lottery tickets.
• Challenge-Wide Rule: Holidays can’t ever have the “Holiday Gnomes” tradition.
  -This includes Harvestfest, which you will have to edit to remove the tradition.
  -These Gnomes would be fine if you had to buy them first, or if they didn’t spawn around 100 seed packets when you successfully appease them...
• Challenge-Wide Rule: Money Trees may never be purchased, grown, or harvested.
• Your Sims may join the Style Influencer career in the Roaring 20’s and onward.
• Challenge-Wide Rule: You may not enable the Fame system until the Old West.
  -I would love to let your Sims be famous throughout the challenge, but the paparazzi following them around in addition to their fans constantly pulling out their phones to take pictures are just too intrusive for an immersive playstyle.
• Your Sims may have the World-Famous Celebrity aspiration in the Old West and onward.
• Your Sims may join the acting career and follow the acting aspiration in the Roaring 20s and onward.
• The music/video editing stations added in Get Famous will be restricted until Modern day, for obvious reasons.

So I've been doing some testing with gardening (finally, I know) and have found gardening since they overhauled it back when seasons came out to be rather unfun if you're trying to grow and splice plants. I tested this with a single Sim, two of each required plant for grafting (one indoors, one outdoors), until my Sim had aged from a young adult to an elder. I chose this time frame because I think that's a reasonable amount of time to give for the Prehistoric Era of this challenge. My goal, of course, was to grow and harvest a death flower. I'll go into details on what I did and what I learned below, but if you don't feel like reading then here's the conclusion; it's unreasonable to expect the average player of this challenge to successfully complete the goal of growing and harvesting a death flower through grafting.

I was playing with seasons, hence the outdoor plants for testing. In the 48 Sim days I tested (boy, was that fun...) only ONE of my six spliced plants ever produced the grafted plant that I was looking for. And even then, it only produced it once. Evolution level didn't seem to make a difference, as it was one of my indoor plants which take at least twice as long to evolve than they do if they're growing outdoors. For the first 24 days I didn't use any fertilizer, and the last 24 days I used normal quality apples as fertilizer for all of my plants. I got my pomegranate while I was fertilizing the plants, so I think fertilizing does make spliced plants more likely to grow as has been said by the community. Maybe if you used a high quality fertilizer the whole time you *could* feasibly get a death flower through grafting, but I was also testing this with a (cheated) level 10 gardener. Fertilizing isn't even available until gardening level 3, and grafting isn't available until level 5. In addition, I'm not sure if it's quality (normal vs excellent) or rarity (common vs rare) of fertilizer that actually determines the fertilizer quality. You would think it would be the quality level, but with fishing the bait quality is actually determined by rarity.

Once I was done testing the plants normally, I decided to buy a bunch of rare seed packets ($1000 each, unlocked at level 10 I think) and see how much money I would have to spend before I got a death flower. I think it took me about 20 packets to get my first death flower, and I had 5 by the time I was done opening all 60 of them. This means that death flowers are about an 8% chance, at least from my testing. While this could work for the Prehistoric Era goal, it would change the goal from something you achieve through growing and caring for your garden to something you literally just sink money into until it's done.

So in light of all this, I'm considering changing the "Grow and harvest a death flower" goal in the Prehistoric Era once again. The goal I have in mind right now is completing a collection--either the rocks, fossils, frogs, fishing, or gardening ones would count for this. I think fishing would probably be easiest, but it would really vary based on playstyle. My question to you is, as you've been playing in the Prehistoric Era since Seasons came out (even if you don't have seasons), have you had any luck with grafting or completing this goal? If the general consensus lines up with my conclusion, then I think I'll change it. Please do let me know what you guys have found and what you think, so that I can update the goal if I need to.

I know there hasn't been a reply in a month, but given this is a new challenge and people still seemed to be talking here, I'm guessing it's still active? I'm sorry if it's not.

What I wanted to ask was if I could use vampires in this challenge? That way it can add the factor of immortality throughout the ages. I guess this would be like the founder, or perhaps someone to watch over the family? Maybe this could limit the way the game is played i.e not marrying or having kids until a certain point? Or maybe just play with one person but having lots of kids and/or siring other vampires out of the household, never interacting with them or their children unless you encounter them randomly?

Sorry if I'm rambling, I don't always articulate myself the best.

Due to the way the Prehistoric Era is set up, I restricted vampires until the middle ages. The issue of time and succession with vampires will always be a problem with this challenge, since you have a hard "time limit" per era before you simply HAVE to start having kids or risk not continuing the challenge. The idea of an immortal founder that is omnipresent throughout all the eras is interesting though, but might make some of the goals difficult to achieve. Since this is something largely untested, I'd say that you should just go with your gut on what feels "right" to you. I know that's not exactly the answer you were looking for, but let me know what you decide to do and how it turns out! If it's interesting and challenging enough, I might add a separate section for playing as an immortal through the eras.

Also, I apologize for not replying for so long! I usually check this at least once a day, but have been busy with school and work the last few days.

I suppose if I were to make a vampire as a helper, instead of the founder- like some kind of guardian that won't be having kids of their own but will protect the family and preserve their memory; sort of like helpers in the legacy challenges? Maybe that would work.

Also, I don't play the Sims 4 that much anymore, but I'm getting back into the Sims 3, so maybe I could figure out a way to do this there. I mean, I don't know if this is a contest or not, all I know is I like to do things my own way; if there IS a contest, I definitely wouldn't be entering, just playing alongside. It doesn't hurt that there are a lot of clothes for the Sims 3 that come from different time periods. Also, I could easily make a separate world for this challenge and keep it separate from my other saves that I play casually.

The original creator of this challenge said that it was inspired by the "Through History Legacy Challenge", so that might be worth taking a look at if you're planning to do it in TS3. Otherwise, you should be able to roughly apply all the rules and goals to TS3 from this challenge anyway.

Hello again! I've rebuilt this challenge from the ground up, and the changes are now live! As always, let me know if you have any comments, suggestions, or questions!
Change Log 6/17/19

Sounds like a cool challenge, but there's a pretty big problem. I get it, fancy fonts to represent each era, but I think most people prefer their challenges to have readable rules.