Crimson: It was a wrench when I had to kill Lydia off. What's more frustrating for me, though, is having my Sims finally find a Subversive career, join it, and get about three levels up before the government finds them. >(

Arabella: Themes are interesting and therefore welcome. I think a WWII one would be particularly cool.

And optional handicaps aren't a half-bad idea. I'll have to think some up.

ETA: Added some to the end of the original post. They can be implemented into gameplay at any time, so if you've already started and you'd like to add one, feel free. They are not required.

Question: are the "hobby" objects allowed -- sewing machine, restorable car, and so on?

Also: my military Sim was just fired for being late to work. Right now I've got him back in the track and am calling it a "suspension", but...will that work?

Yes, except the robot-making station.

I've been debating about firing for a while now. Putting him back in and continuing as usual should be fine, unless you'd like to treat it as him being under closer surveillance and enact a handicap or something.

My heir has just gone to uni, playing her through quickly.

First update is here:
http://www.modthesims.info/article.php?t=412473

Oh I like the idea of using Civilization III to mirror the country's actions during the war!

I have enough pictures for the next entry, but I haven't gotten around to uploading/posting them. Should be forthcoming soon.

Working on my third generation now: two of the careers in my Sims' paths have been successfully navigated, and the second-generation sims are nearing theirs. We've had losses, but not many.

Also updated the story in Sims Creativity, although it will remain behind my actual playing.

I finally got started!

Sadly, the husband died, but it was after the triplets were born, so I didn't loose! Poor Song! (founder wife). She's constantly in aspiration failure! I'd be in aspiration failure to if I had three constantly screaming toddlers...

The husband died before the war had even started, mostly because I decided I wanted Song to raise the kids on her own, and starved him. I simply added it to the story line, saying it was the 'first' attack. I didn't know file clerks were dangerous to a attacking country... XD

This is awesome, I love detailed challenges, and I've wanted to play a military family for forever!

Surrender to the SimCity State disloyal subversives! >:K

Actually, I still can't decide which path I want them to go on... Hmmmmm......

My third generation consists of two sets of twins, all four Sims being cute as a button. I don't know who to pick as heir!

Refox: Oh your poor ladyfounder. =( Triplets all by herself. And with a war on, too!

MSK: I tried to make the two paths as evenly matched as possible in terms of difficulty, so whichever way you swing, hopefully it'll go well. I picked Subversive for my first family because I personally don't like war, so I would probably be a subversive in this situation.

Smellincoffee: I've been lucky and gotten decent-looking Sims on my first go, so I always use the firstborn as the heir. Lydia and Sylvester weren't as obsessed with having babies as Christy and Sylvester were, probably because Lydia had miserable pregnancies.

Here is the next batch of pictures. Please note that thanks to ACR, there's one picture with a Simbutt in it. You can't see anything else and the bum is partially obscured, but I didn't want anyone taken by surprise.

O.O I am SO doing this! Thanks for thinking of it!!

I'm a bit confused by the Killed in Action risk for patriots. Everyone in the military (patriot or subversive) already risks death every other day if their military dice roll = 6. Does this mean that the risk for military Sims in patriot households is doubled on the same roll (2 or 6) or do you roll once for military (6 = death) and then roll again for patriot KIA (2 = death)?

I have encountered a problem. I have a husband and wife, and their 3 children (one kid, one toddler, one baby). I rolled a 6 for the husband in the military career, so he will be killed. But then I rolled a 2 for my wife who is currently in hiding. That would mean both parents must die. But that would also mean the end of the challenge. So I'm thinking I will kill off the father, but keep the wife, because what else could I do? I'm at the end of my second week, and don't want to have to start over. Just thought I'd let you know, and I want your opinion on this.

Mangaroo: No. For Patriot Sims that roll the Risk to be drafted, the Killed in Action risk supplants the Military risk. Like Discovered Subersives, Drafted Patriots will die if you roll a two. Male Sims that joined the military because they never attended college will die if you roll a six. I'll edit the original post to try to clarify this.

Pandadoraa: It's your call. The rules of the challenge dictate that if they roll to die, they have to die--and if that means that you lose, then you lose. =/ If you'd like to fudge it a bit to prevent losing, or fudge until the children grow up, that's your prerogative. From a storytelling perspective you could move a surrogate parent in and say he/she took the children in when their parents died, but it's probably best not to let the surrogate complete a career.

I like clarifying rules. I don't like recommending bending them. I hope this helps.

I guess I'm fudging then. I want to continue my challenge, and with the genetics I currently have. What I've been doing now that my eldest son has become a teen is rolling for everyone, but if both are going to die, I kill the oldest. So if I rolled for both mother and teen son to die , only the mother will die. That way I can keep playing, and by killing the oldest, i am killing the sim with higher skills and farther up in a career, that way i'm still making it difficult.

Okay. Good luck. =)

Alternatively, you could put in a no-welfare hack and force the kids to live by themselves, which would also make for fun storytelling. Babies and toddlers can't die, even if their needs are all in the red. (And children can't die from most things, either, so you can get them happy again once they age up without worrying that they'll keel over from starvation if you had no adult on the lot to feed the toddlers.)

I see how that makes sense, but I feels like cheating Normally a starving child would die, but using that hack I could just leave my toddler and ignore it. Plus I don't really like using hacks...I'm thinking of just expanding my family, so that in the next generation, I won't have this problem.

well, you can always use the buyable toddler sippy cup. I don't let them starve, but I discovered when playing another challenge that they can't. (I forget which one, but it is some sort of apocalypse where you have two teens, a child and a toddler alone in a house and they can only have one meal per day.) It's actually quite difficult to keep kids alive and functioning with no adult or source of income!

I am having a serious love affair with this challenge. I hope HaunterMooneyes won't mind if I talk about my modifications and ask for a little help (see third bullet point).

* I'm playing two families: one Subversive, one Patriot. The goal is to see which family can bring the war to an end first. Therefore, I had to add a Uni career to the Patriot track so Subversives wouldn't be at a disadvantage. I added Show Business for Patriots (gotta sell those war bonds!) and then evened out the number of careers by adding Entertainment for Subversives.

* I want to see the war affect the whole neighborhood. So, instead of disallowing visits to community lots, I added community lots to the weekly Wednesday bombing raids. If I roll a 3, the home is destroyed. If I roll a 5, a community lot is destroyed and cannot be rebuilt. I'm using Phaenoh's West Weasels as my neighborhood, and I've assigned the most functional (grocery store, clothing store, restaurants) and fun (pool, skating rink) community lots the numbers 1-6. If a community lot is bombed, I roll the die again to see which lot gets bulldozed. I'm also incorporating part of the bombing raid handicap: if a home or a community lot was bombed, I have to roll the die for every Sim teen or older. If the residence was destroyed and the individual's roll = 3, that Sim dies. If a community lot was destroyed and the individual's roll = 5, that Sim dies. (Even if they were home at the time. War is not logical.)

* I'm in the process of matching up the careers with some Apocalypse Challenge style restrictions. For instance, once the war begins, no one can go to Uni until a Subversive reaches the top of the Education career. (Because higher education diverts resources from the war effort and is a subversive breeding ground fostered by the intelligentsia, dontcha know.) Patriots can't own TVs until one of them tops the Show Business career; Subversives can't own TVs until one of them tops the Entertainment career. I still have a little time before the war begins to flesh out what each of the other careers will unlock, so if anyone has any suggestions for what reaching the top of the following careers would unlock, I would love to hear them: Business, Intelligence, Journalism, Law, and Medicine.

Mangaroo - You're so clever adding in the Apocalypse Challenge career rules. I suggest for Medicine, before you finish that career, you kill off any sim who gets sick immediately, instead of letting them heal.

*flails a little* I love watching this thing mutate. It's so cool seeing how people adapt it while still staying within the rule parameters (lots of you have even made it harder!). That's one of the best parts of making challenges: watching people change them and make them awesome! (And also watching the stories unfold. I like stories.)

Mangaroo: Ideas, ideas...um...maybe Discovered Subversive Sims can't return to a normal career until one of the other Sims has completed the Law track? They still have to reach the top of the career, but once they become a Criminal Mastermind, there's no one high up enough to absolve them of their "crimes" until one of the family is The Law--they have to stay in the Criminal career until someone completes the Law track.

And perhaps ditto for Drafted Patriots--they can't return to a normal career until someone completes the Intelligence track and pulls some strings to get them out of serving, even if they become a General before that happens.

pandadoraa, that's a great suggestion. I want to limit my cheat-deaths to war events (killed in action, executed subversives), so I think I might just tie medicine to witchcraft. Witches have a remedis simae spell that I use to cure sickness in my prosperity hood. I would call these home remedies/pharmaceuticals rather than witchcraft, because the supernatural has no place in this hood.

HaunterMooneyes, yes! I love it. It adds just the right amount of additional challenge and gives a great benefit to whichever family can top their respective unlocking career first.

Reading what you said about spares in the original post, it sounds as if they just go to the bin. I have an obsession with keeping generations synced, so I'll be sending my spares to communal homes and playing them in sync: all spare males go to military barracks where they'll never skill sufficiently to reach the top of the career, spare patriot females go to a Red Cross/USO-type lot where they'll grow produce for the military barracks and run the draft risk, and spare subversive females to...an art commune, I guess. They will, of course, run the discovery/death risk. In the event of the death of an heir with no offspring, a spare sibling can return home. However, a successful bomb strike on a communal living lot automatically results in the death of everyone on that lot, so spares run a higher risk of bombing death.

I'm playing my spares, although with slightly relaxed rules: I only roll for them if they're in an appropriate career (which they don't have to be), gay, or on Wednesdays for the bombing risk. I also let them have TVs and shop for clothing instead of sewing it themselves.

The one spare that I have, Felicia, is whiling away her time at University. I may just have to dump her onto a lot (say she came back from the safety of the neighboring country, or something) and do what you're doing, mangaroo, because it's such a cool idea. For sake of ease I usually try to avoid spares as much as possible, but I may just have to arrange to get some. >>