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Mad Poster
#12276 Old 9th Oct 2021 at 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amura
Out of topic, I know, but...
Has someone disagreed with each and every post in this page? o_O


yes. someone is having a bad day. Disagreeable day, in fact.

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retired moderator
#12277 Old 10th Oct 2021 at 12:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantomknight
simsample, I don't think you can save in between births in a multiple birth pregnancy. The way to do it, I think, is that you have a single birth, and use cheats to make the sim pregnant/give birth again immediately after. Because the randomizer is broken, the baby from the second birth should be the exact same as the first, if the gender is the same.

I was originally replying to @lientebollemeis in that I don't think their suggestion of using the firstborn syndrome as a 'workaround to get identical twins' will work, because you cannot save between twins.
Unfortunately your idea of making a sim pregnant immediately after would not work to get identical twins, for the same reason that (in the unmodded game) ordinary gameplay twins will never be identical.

As far as the game is concerned, twins are exactly the same as two consecutive pregnancies from the same parents. Once the randomizer is run during gameplay, you are less likely to get the same result again (unless you reboot).

I'm going to quote Mootilda to explain this better- but all of the information is in the threads I linked earlier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
The game has a number of different randomizers for different things, including personality, genetics, sex, etc. There's an bug in the personality randomizer, which Pes documented. After doing some research, I'm convinced that there is also a bug in the genetics randomizer. However, the sex randomizer seems to work correctly.

The problem is that computers are not very good at being random. Instead, they are really great at doing exactly the same thing every time.

Randomizers work as follows: You provide an initial "seed" value. After that, each call to the randomizer runs an algorithm (mathematical formula) on the existing value to produce a new value. If the seed value is the same each time you run the program, then the set of "random" numbers generated will be the same, every single time.

Because of this, you want to use a random number as the seed. But remember, computers are really bad at being random, so where do you get this "random" seed? Often programmers will seed the randomizer with the time, which is likely to be random.

(Note that the time is not always a reasonable "random" seed. For example, I've heard of problems because a gambling program was started automatically at the exact same time every day. Instead of random numbers, the exact same numbers were being generated every time. Someone noticed the pattern and used that bug to win a lot of money.)

Unfortunately, it looks like the genetics seed is always the same value, which means that the "random" numbers will not be random at all. Since we don't have access to the seed, which is inside the EXE, the only other option for getting a random number is to run the randomizer a random number of times. That's why you roll the pacifier a random number of times when you start the game; you are basically running each of the randomizers when you roll the pacifier.

The Batbox does basically the same thing, because it runs the Make New Character primitive, which in turn runs each of the randomizers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootilda
Yes, the batbox creates a "random" number of sims, which it then discards. Unfortunately, it looks like the batbox is using a broken random number generator, so the "random" number of sims is exactly the same every time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantomknight
I do wonder if that could be changed now, with the randomizer fix. Seems like it should be possible anyway.

The randomizer fix will make it less likely to get identical twins through gameplay, as the first sim generated on bootup will be truly random now. The only way to get identical twins would be to clone a sim or use alt sim surgery to make them identical appearance-wise, and copy the recessives over. Of course thee are only a finite number of possible faces that the game can produce so sooner or later you'd get two that look alike enough to be considered identical anyway.

I will choose a path that's clear- I will choose free will
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Theorist
#12278 Old 10th Oct 2021 at 1:46 AM
I think I get it. When I had my identical sets of twins, I did indeed quit and restart the game in between. So my legacy founder's second set of twins had the same faces, though the genders were different--the first set was boy/boy and the second was boy/girl. So, if I'm understanding it correctly, when I shut down my game and then restarted, the genetics numbers were set back to where they were before, when my sim gave birth the first time, so I got the same genetics again. Is that right?

And I didn't mean to imply that the randomizer fix could help simmers get identical twins. Instead I meant that if the randomizer could be fixed, we could also probably change how twins' genetics are rolled. So theoretically, such a mod would insert an extra roll into the multiple births process. If a sim was having a multiple birth, then it would roll for a chance that the babies would be identical. If yes, then it would keep the genetics from the first baby, if no, it'd roll new genetics for every kid. But I'm not sure how plausible that is.

"May the sunlight find you, thy days be long, thy winters kind, thy roots be strong." -Grand Oak Tree, DAO

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Theorist
#12279 Old 10th Oct 2021 at 2:41 AM
Creation of new sims happens in a primitive that we don't have access to the code for, so no, we can't change that process.
Forum Resident
#12280 Old 10th Oct 2021 at 5:29 AM
I was discussing this with some other sims modders, and Lazy Dutchess thought that the thing to do would be to "roll back" the randomizer when producing the second sim. Basically, instead of copy/pasting the data from the first onto the second, it would create the first, then sorta "undo" the re-randomizing to create a second sim as an identical twin. She said, in theory (the great caveat!), it's feasible to do.

Quote:
Creation of new sims happens in a primitive that we don't have access to the code for, so no, we can't change that process.

I'm told that this isn't exactly the case anymore... the "make new character" primitive has, in fact, been disassembled, and can be modded now.

Oh, and the disagreeable poster, i think, has been going back for a couple days. There's a lot of red marks, and not just on the one page. hahah


-gE
>=)
Be like the 22nd elephant with heated value in space- Bark!
retired moderator
#12281 Old 10th Oct 2021 at 9:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grinevilly
I'm told that this isn't exactly the case anymore... the "make new character" primitive has, in fact, been disassembled, and can be modded now.

I really wish Mootilda was still here, she would have loved this!

I will choose a path that's clear- I will choose free will
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Mad Poster
#12282 Old 10th Oct 2021 at 11:59 AM
Quote:
Oh, and the disagreeable poster, i think, has been going back for a couple days. There's a lot of red marks, and not just on the one page. hahah


Shhhh! Let's not wake them up!

Receptacle Refugee & Resident Polar Bear
"Get out of my way, young'un, I'm a ninja!"
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Alchemist
#12283 Old 10th Oct 2021 at 4:46 PM
@simsample
Here is how I see the advantage of the first born syndrome to have identical twins: https://s2idownloads.blogspot.com/2...yndrom.html?m=1

Indeed the babies are clones from eachother but personalities, lifetime wish, hobby... can easily be changed with insiminator and tons of tools like that.

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Alchemist
#12284 Old 10th Oct 2021 at 6:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simsample
It's everything- it seems that most of the randomizers in-game are broken:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthre...122#post5095122
In this thread are some pictures from when my daughter and I tested the firstborn effect on our computers; Mootilda did some digging into the code and found what I summarised in the above post.
https://modthesims.info/showthread....842#post2251842
Of course LazyDuchess has fixed this now with dll injection, but in an unmodded game if you boot up the game and immediately have two sims give birth to a baby, then reboot the game and repeat, the face and personality and genetics will always be identical (unless something happens to roll the in-game randomizer, such as spawning an NPC).

My post above was just questioning whether it's possible to save in between birthing twins. If it is, then you could (in the unmodded game) save before twin #1, reboot and birth twin #1, save and reboot and then birth twin #2, and have genetically identical twins each time. Their personalities would always be the same but you can change those easily enough in-game.

If you don't save, exit and reload the game in-between birthing each twin (or indeed before having the first one, as normal game play can randomize them), then the game randomizers will be triggered from the first birth, and will give a different result for the second twin.


Let the sim give birth to one baby. Save and close the game. Start the game and go back to that household. Let the sim give birth again with insiminator (she can have a baby literaly instantly) and you have twins like you described.
No you cant save the game while the sim has twins, but you can use that workaround I just described.

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retired moderator
#12285 Old 11th Oct 2021 at 12:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lientebollemeis
Let the sim give birth to one baby. Save and close the game. Start the game and go back to that household. Let the sim give birth again with insiminator (she can have a baby literaly instantly) and you have twins like you described.
No you cant save the game while the sim has twins, but you can use that workaround I just described.

Yes, that's what I mentioned there in my post you quoted- you are using two consecutive pregnancies to simulate a twin birth, which is the only way you could do it I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lientebollemeis
Of course you need to make sure that the babies have the same sex. (Save before birth, go back in the house and if it's not the right gender, leave without saving and go back in the house,...).

This bit of your tutorial wouldn't work though- you'd need to reboot and restart the game if you didn't get the correct gender, because the randomizer will be run for a second time if you exit to neighbourhood and reload the lot.

I will choose a path that's clear- I will choose free will
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Theorist
#12286 Old 11th Oct 2021 at 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grinevilly
I'm told that this isn't exactly the case anymore... the "make new character" primitive has, in fact, been disassembled, and can be modded now.


Any source on this?
Alchemist
#12287 Old 11th Oct 2021 at 6:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simsample
Yes, that's what I mentioned there in my post you quoted- you are using two consecutive pregnancies to simulate a twin birth, which is the only way you could do it I think.


This bit of your tutorial wouldn't work though- you'd need to reboot and restart the game if you didn't get the correct gender, because the randomizer will be run for a second time if you exit to neighbourhood and reload the lot.


Okay I'll change that. Thanks!

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Forum Resident
#12288 Old 12th Oct 2021 at 5:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kestrellyn
Any source on this?


Sure! My source was just a group discussion on identical twins, which Lazy Dutchess -- who knows FAR more on this topic than I would ever hope to, added her thoughts:

Quote:
Lazy Duchess — 10/09/2021
the disassembled make new character primitive is messy but probably not too hard to force a baby gender
it's actually surprisingly easy to create a new generic sim call, so one could be added to force the next baby to be born a certain gender or something like that
i did replace the game's random number generator already so that would make it a lot more feasible too
hooking the code to roll the randomizer back to its state before the second baby was created should do the trick
but yeah this is all in theory


I defer to her, because I'm no whiz on modding and she definitely is! Sorry I can't offer any more depth. I'm more like a parrot, squawking what i heard repetitively.


-gE
>=)
Be like the 22nd elephant with heated value in space- Bark!
retired moderator
#12289 Old 12th Oct 2021 at 5:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lientebollemeis
Okay I'll change that. Thanks!

That's a great little guide- I'm saving the link!

I will choose a path that's clear- I will choose free will
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Theorist
#12290 Old 12th Oct 2021 at 9:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grinevilly
Sure! My source was just a group discussion on identical twins, which Lazy Dutchess -- who knows FAR more on this topic than I would ever hope to, added her thoughts:



I defer to her, because I'm no whiz on modding and she definitely is! Sorry I can't offer any more depth. I'm more like a parrot, squawking what i heard repetitively.


-gE
>=)


Yes, that's what I thought, you can mod it if you want to disassemble it yourself and do the kind of hacking the Lazy Duchess is doing, but you can't casually mod it the way you can mod the rest of the game. I'm sure anything is possible if you want to spend enough time disassembling stuff.
Forum Resident
#12291 Old 13th Oct 2021 at 7:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kestrellyn
Yes, that's what I thought, you can mod it if you want to disassemble it yourself and do the kind of hacking the Lazy Duchess is doing, but you can't casually mod it the way you can mod the rest of the game. I'm sure anything is possible if you want to spend enough time disassembling stuff.


Okay.
I guess...

But you stated, unequivocally, it's not possible... then say, you thought all along that it was possible.
To me, i can't "casually" create slots. But i wouldn't say it "can't be" done.


-gE
>=)
Theorist
#12292 Old 13th Oct 2021 at 9:38 PM
Yes, you can create slots within the existing modding framework that we have for modding the game. You can't mod the create new character primitive within that framework.
Forum Resident
#12293 Old 13th Oct 2021 at 9:44 PM
I suppose you could let the parents have twins, when they age up to toddler, kill them off, and delete any bad memories & family ties in SimPE.

Open up Bodyshop and create the identical twins' facial base you want so they'll match. Load up CAS, create them both, and a townie to babysit them for a minute, and move them into a lot. Then either add them to the proper Sims' family, add family ties, or put them into the adoption pool, and adopt them that way. Then marry off the extra adult Sim or put them into townie pool.

While more complicated, and slightly sinister killing toddlers, it's a solution!

I ramble a lot, and get confused easily, so my apologies to you in advance.
Theorist
#12294 Old 14th Oct 2021 at 1:00 AM
Hmm, but why would you do that, rather than sim surgery, to make one twin look like the other? I believe there's a way to make those facial changes you make in sim surgery genetic, too. Isn't there?

"May the sunlight find you, thy days be long, thy winters kind, thy roots be strong." -Grand Oak Tree, DAO

XPTL Mod Archive | Change a Mod's Mesh into a CC Object | Increasing the Game Difficulty | Editing ACR 4 Your Age Mod
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Mad Poster
#12295 Old 14th Oct 2021 at 2:06 AM
Or if you just want to skip Sim Surgery and go for the twin thing, here's a hack by Christianlov:
https://modthesims.info/d/284572/si...e-selector.html

Far faster and easier.

Receptacle Refugee & Resident Polar Bear
"Get out of my way, young'un, I'm a ninja!"
My downloads of various stuff: https://www.mediafire.com/#myfiles (including funerals!)
Alchemist
#12296 Old 14th Oct 2021 at 6:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FranH
Or if you just want to skip Sim Surgery and go for the twin thing, here's a hack by Christianlov:
https://modthesims.info/d/284572/si...e-selector.html

Far faster and easier.


But then there's no memory of the second baby being born.

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Forum Resident
#12297 Old 14th Oct 2021 at 2:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lientebollemeis
But then there's no memory of the second baby being born.


Pretty sure you can ADD memories with SimPE as well? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, for the bed boost thing, maybe just an object that detects all bed objects on the lot and lets you select the energy and comfort levels for all? Rather than trying to create invisible mattresses and seperate beds. Considering there's options for individual rooms for lights (I think, I could be thinking of TS3 lol), perhaps like a similar detection, it could go by per room basis as well? Like "set level for lot" and if you place the modded object in a certain room, "set level for this room" kinda thing. I don't even know if any of that's really possible, just throwing an idea out there, lol.

edit: just realized Phantom already mentioned something similar!

I do wonder if that would be possible though, I mean if there's similar coding for detecting things in certain rooms already like the lights and fire alarms?

I ramble a lot, and get confused easily, so my apologies to you in advance.
Mad Poster
#12298 Old 14th Oct 2021 at 3:35 PM
I read a comment from back in the 2009 topic, and I wonder if the issue with haircuts being the same is only a problem when you play without CC (or just with defaults that don't have extra ages attached), because I've never had that issue while using CC (I've never cared much about rolling the pacifier), or at least not after one of the EPs (I think some things changed after either Pets or Seasons).

I used to have the issue with identical haircuts back in my early days of simming, but only when I played without CC. I think that's because of how the default hairs are put together. When the game has more toddler hairs to pick from, you get more randomized hairs.

My sims used to get more or less identical haircuts, but there were very few to pick from and if there's only 3-5 toddler hairs to pick from (not counting the hats, I don't think all of those are randomly assigned), and those again are linked to spesific styles for kids and then teens, there aren't too many hairs you can get.
Alchemist
#12299 Old 15th Oct 2021 at 7:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpal425
Pretty sure you can ADD memories with SimPE as well? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, for the bed boost thing, maybe just an object that detects all bed objects on the lot and lets you select the energy and comfort levels for all? Rather than trying to create invisible mattresses and seperate beds. Considering there's options for individual rooms for lights (I think, I could be thinking of TS3 lol), perhaps like a similar detection, it could go by per room basis as well? Like "set level for lot" and if you place the modded object in a certain room, "set level for this room" kinda thing. I don't even know if any of that's really possible, just throwing an idea out there, lol.

edit: just realized Phantom already mentioned something similar!

I do wonder if that would be possible though, I mean if there's similar coding for detecting things in certain rooms already like the lights and fire alarms?


Adding memories in SimPE is not what every simmer knows or dares to do. I know people who run The Sims 2 smoothly, but can't get SimPE to run.
I didn't say it's not possible to add a memory. It's just not really user friendly that way.

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Lab Assistant
#12300 Old 15th Oct 2021 at 7:54 PM Last edited by Lena88 : 15th Oct 2021 at 9:44 PM.
Remember KNOWLEDGE aspiration perk that allowes you to TRANSFER skills/knowledge? I wish (at least as option) that sims who are being given lectures/knowledge transfer sit on chairs or sofas.
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