iCad, I'm amenable to adding upper class families in the early stages of the game, too. I haven't decided yet if this is something I will do, or not. Given that I envisioned the challenge as an attempt to struggle up through an existing system, it makes a lot of sense to do it this way. I wasn't sure how to suggest doing it, and for the sake of ease decided upon the bare minimum as a requirement, hence the necessity for the top of the pyramid and the base--then fill in as you go along. For one thing, I do think that good storylines tend to evolve organically, and I was concerned for myself that if I created too many families straight out the gate that I wouldn't feel committed enough to them to really understand the dynamics of their relationships across class stations and family lines. I wonder if it would make sense, though, to have some sort of system whereby you added a family of rank after a certain plot point or generation is complete, to ensure that the center of the pyramid fills in more seamlessly. This would give playable sims an opportunity to continuously interact with members of their new upwardly mobile stations. I am finding that my new bourgeois sims are having trouble marrying, at least the women, since most of the men in the neighborhood are below their station now. So, more bourgeois men--and not family members(!)--are needed to keep the plot stable.

Cococure, I'm impressed! I haven't had a sim able to produce that many babies before dying yet. Male sims, yes,but this was with multiple marriages after wives died. I am accelerating pregnancies past the first bump (but you knew that already ) . I think if I weren't my highest number would be more like three or four, which is now my average number of births. My RNG keeps rolling low numbers, which makes this really harder than I anticipated. Some sims just can't get lucky at all!

Tizkopde, I too am indebted to some hacked objects that make toddlerhood more bearable. I couldn't live without those wonderful little beds the wee ones can get into and out of themselves. I hate for them to scream in the crib! I've quit using the toddler table for feeding, and the bottles have been piling up I would really love a nursing hack for toddlers, but none so far that I know of. For historicity, I am trying to use the invisible refrigerators to keep them out of the view of the cameras. My main interest in the challenge is the social structure, so realism is occasionally forfeited ....

And for naming, I have several sites bookmarked that I like to use. I roll a random number and voila, new name. Or, baby gets a family member's name. I understand that in the late middle ages, there were much, much fewer names in circulation. Children were generally named after their godparents, usually a member of a higher class to whom their parents were somehow indentured or committed through the hierarchy. There were tons of Johns, Janes, Marys, and Henrys. But, I have to have more names than that. I think I'd go out of mind if every other sim was named John

I know this is a bit late, but if you can use boolprop for this challenge for the clothes it would be great. My sim Gorgina (Remember?) is preg and she is in thoose stupied clothes! If you find a clothing rack on spawn ,i cant remember its name, you will change back into normal clothes (the clothes that you choose).

I use Mary Lou and Numenor's hacked coat rack, available here on MTS: http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=225252 which I find to be indispensable to this challenge.

I don't use boolprop for very many things, since I've heard that it can be dangerous to do so. I think it's a "use at your own risk" kind of operation.

Hello, i was wondering about the term : ECCENTRIC, that you wrote in the knowledge tab. There is no other explain about this term in your rules, can you explain it?

In the family tab, in nurture children category, the point fort ARRANGED MARRIAGE goes to who? parents who maintain a relationship over than 20?

Thank You, Louhema, for being such a close reader! I had quite forgotten about this myself. It was another layer of complexity I was contemplating while writing the challenge which got rather overlooked before posting. My original idea is that people would become branded in certain ways for their behaviors--eccentric, i.e. odd, or quirky; a rake, if they are too free with the ladies; a coquette, if too free with the gentlemen's favors, and so on ... the branding would be a social form of ostracization but each would carry certain benefits as well as deficits, but as I said this idea took a back seat to the larger contours of the project and I rather forgot about it. I think over break I shall revisit the idea .... but for now that is all I can say with certainty. Hope this helps

Looking over the Nurture Children--the points should go to the parents for arranging a marriage, but that is actually covered above, under "Provide for children"--I don't think it supposed to be there under "Nurture Children": that is for maintaining the close relationship. The points go to the parents, each season that the relationship is maintained.

I can definitely see that Warwickshire 1.1 is on the horizon soon! I will get started making these changes as soon I get this semester wrapped up.

Oh, that's absolutely true, I agree. Some of the best things that have happened in my game happened through serendipity. One of my Sims I originally envisioned as staying single. Had him all planned out. Then he got abducted by aliens (NOT via cheating, which I do often but not this time!). And had natural twins. Then he autonomously fell head-over-heels with a townie and they ended up marrying and ACR'ing all over the place. The upshot: He currently has seven children, 15 grandchildren, and 4.66666666 great-grandchildren. And I adore his entire family, which all happened "by accident," so to speak. So yeah, organic. That said, with this particular challenge, I would think that it would be hard to world-build AND work on moving up the ranks at the same time. However, I would want "wiggle room" for seredipitous things to happen, too, because I like that.

Soooooo...I'm starting to create my families. I've decided to create more "serfs," actually, but more higher ranks, too. I'm giving myself 6 "noble" families, plus the "king and queen," and I'm giving myself two merchant families. I'm leaving the "lower gentry" ranks open to be (hopefully!) filled as I play. I'll let you know how I do with that, for possible challenge-modification purposes.

I can't wait for the new rules, but i wishe you a merry christmas all!!!

I hope everyone is having a wonderful holiday break. I have been working on the Warwickshire site, and have it up and running. There are still lots of holes to fill in--the site is still under construction--but here is the url. Hope you enjoy. Just poke around and see what you find--lots to see, and more to come.

http://warwickshire.weebly.com/index.html

Definitely will start tommorow, if snow day permits :3. But if not will start next weekend :D

Hello M3g7e and all!
First off, I would like to congratulate you, M3g7e, on such an interesting, well-thought out and inspiring challenge! I have been doing the Victorian Population Challenge by Sebrina01 for about two years, and am continuing, but have also been toying with the idea of a Medieval neighbourhod for quite a while. You have given me a reason to start it with your Renaissance Challenge! I am in the process of building a 'hood for the challenge and reading through your document and all the information and comments on this thread, almost ready to begin. But first, a question:

When I start a new serf family, do they begin with purchasing just a bare 3x3 lot and the remainder of their $20,000 as start-up money; or with a lot and house and the full $20,000 start up money? For example, in the Victorian Population challenge, the poor families start out with a "small" lot and a suitably dreary home in which the number of rooms is strictly defined, although the square footage of the house is not; in addition, at start-up they are allowed only a mere $5 in family funds.

Thanks for answering my question. The answer makes a big difference to how much of a "leg up" a serf family has in the beginning. Can't wait to begin,

Cheers, Vllygrl

In the beginning, start out with whatever funds Maxis gives you from CAS. Get a 3X3 lot, since you will want the extra space for a pond and a big garden. You will need to do all of the landscaping and housebuilding with the Maxis funds. Whatever is left over is for planting the first garden and buying furniture. With a small family size, it isn't usually very much. Also recommended (see above thread)--get the No Humble hack (available at MATY) to prevent the gift of a new computer and the no $20K handout--this will be to limit the moveout money for your sims' future children. I think on the base creation you will need the money to get started. Let me know how it goes

Thank you, M3g7e! That helps! I started last night with my first serf couple, Ambrose and Alice Abelin. Ambrose rolled fortune and Alice rolled family, and they both rolled Virtuous, so we shall see what happens!

Good Luck! Don't forget you'll want a King and Queen, and probably some nobles, etc, too

M3g7e, thanks for posting this challenge. I've recently been playing an amended version of this for a few weeks, but it's taking me a while to get The Realm set up. I have slightly different goals than you put forth here, but some of your game mechanics have improved my game by a lot. I lost my first Sim to childbirth last night, and it was very distressing. It's still really early in my scenario, so it was only the second birth so far. I don't know how I'll be able to handle killing off all of these Sims, but it actually makes for a more intersting game. Thanks again!

Hi All!
Well it has been a while since I last posted, but I have been setting up my neighbourhood and playing as time allows, and here is the update to my attempt at the challenge:
I created my Royal family of King Sirius and Queen Sibyl Simmons and they have moved into the castle -- the Queen is with child.
I have created 3 serf families and they are trying to survive and have children. Ambrose Abelin has a son, but lost his wife Alyce to a lingering postpartum infection caused by the new and inexperienced midwife, Willa Wisely. When the women from the church came to lay out Alyce's body, Ambrose met amongst them Mistress Allyn Thompson, who spent her time cleaning the house and caring for baby Aldo. Ambrose was grateful at first, but soon fell head over heels in love with Allyn and married her as soon as possible. She is now with child and Ambrose is terrified he will lose his second and most beloved wife in childbirth, as he lost his first. The second serf family is the Digby family, who grow a market garden, the third is the Oakwood family, who are wild strawberry and mushroom foragers.
The Millers have moved into the grist mill and are starting to grind flour and bake bread for the town. So far, Maud appears to be infertile. I have also spelled out a few points for myself, just to make the challenge easier for me to grapple with:
1) I want my midwife to be earn her living by what her clients pay her, so serfs and peasants will pay her in produce, fish, etc. but working class and above pay in cash. She also started out with 2 apprentices right away, as I can predict that she may be charged and/or convicted in a short time, judging by the likelihood one of her clients will eventually have a miscarriage, so her apprentices must be prepared to take her place immediately if and when that happens.
2) I have also used the Sims2farm animals for a long time, and like
using them, however, I decided that serfs cannot afford them, and only peasants and higher classes can afford animal husbandry (the one exception being Ambrose Abelin, who keeps bees in order to supply the meadery).
3) In order to distinguish between merchants and shop keepers, I decided that merchants will run a home business, while shop keepers must own businesses on community lots separate from their home (yet another exception here is the shop keeper Inman family, who will live upstairs in their tavern, the Black Badger Pub as it is historically accurate for the inn keeper to live on site).
4) I am going to set up a convent filled with CAS novitiates to provide a bevy of marriageable females to replace wives lost in childbirth.
5) I made a tracking sheet to keep each family in order, tomorrow I will set it up as a google document and post a link here for anyone
interested. There is a lot to keep track of in this challenge, and I
needed something to organize it!
6) Besides my usual potpourri of Pescado's hacks, I am playing with the SimBlender, Autonomous Casual Romance, MATY Nursing Babies Hack, Pescado’s Realistic Sickness, Merola's Mind Control Mirror, Mog's put away leftovers, Mog's potty chair use bin, hacked coat hook, no 20k handouts, Pescado's money order hack and Pinhead's move out teens hack. I will likely add Simlogical School Table and Inteenimator as the game progresses and they are needed.
I am going back to the game now, further updates will be coming, but just wanted to let you all know I am indeed playing the challenge, and what my progress is! Cheers, Vllygrl

Here is my Tracking Record and Midwife's Record if anyone is interested.
Cheers, Vllygrl

***Edited to add Example of Midwife's Record zip file

I'm already doing the translation of the rules in french (i've not much time for it...).

I will post later my records sheets. It's more detailled than yours and i included a txt files with the "stories" of the families (name, sons and daughters, events...)

I like this challenge, and i want to know if you are working on an update of the rules?

Have Fun!

Vllygrl, I like the records you've posted. I think I will definitely use the Midwife's records. I have some records I've been trying to develop, not with much luck. I've attached them below. I only use the "event" page out of the character chart because it is tooo long. Even so, I am debating whether or not to keep meticulous records on individual sims since they die frequently. However, it is rather a must to do so ... So, I've gone back and forth between record sheets and just notetaking in a notebook. The free form notes are better for storytelling, but the records are better for the small details. I really need a good system here!

Louhema, I do have quite a few ideas for shaping up the rules, but I have to admit to not working on them just yet. IRL we're expecting a blizzard, so maybe over the next few days, I'll have some down time to get working on them!

Oh my gad! you're sheets are really really good and complete!! Much more than my in fact!

My documents are in french... i'm not sure you will understand them but my sheets are not so good than yours!

Doc file

Excel File

Hi M3g7e and all,
Great to see your tracking sheets, I really like the detail, although I too, waver back and forth between my notebook and the tracking sheets! I am pretty happy with my tracking sheets at the moment, they seem to be functioning for me quite well although I will probably continue tweaking as we go along. I'm not sure I will keep much more detailed records than these, just due to the shocking number of deaths, so far mostly women and children, and it is only 1606! Because of that, I am really glad I set up the convent right away, so that new brides are summoned immediately -- waiting for a walkby could take years! Oh, and I forgot to mention that I do also use the no Humble hack, hate that computer giveaway! I have also now added the Simlogical School set up. Quick update:
Queen Sibyl bore twins who have survived to toddler hood. King Sirius died on a crusade to the Securom Wars, and the Queen is battling to save the kingdom from nasty Lord Alcinius FitzSimmons, bastard son of the King. Martin Miller is doing a brisk business selling flour and bread at the mill, and his first wife Maud did finally bear a daughter, though died in childbirth. He soon remarried. Serf Ambrose is madly in love with second wife Allyn, who has borne a daughter, Alys, and is expecting again. Sales of honey are steady, what with farmgate sales and supplying the Honeycomb Meadery, owned by Irwin Inman. Serf David Digby has married Drusilla, wife #3, buried 2 wives and lost 3 children, only two have survived so far. This has been disastrously hard on David, whose aspiration plummets with every death. Serf Ollie, the mushroom and wild strawberry forager, is doing pretty well. After his first wife Olyffe died, he chose a good sturdy wife in Linda, who bore him 3 children before she also died in childbirth. He has lost no children so far, and has remarried. Three new families: Gentleman Yves Yates, the Sherriff and wife Yvonne; Sir Richard Raleigh, the Queen's Tax Collector, and Lady Rena his wife; and Lord Ferdinand Fiennes, Baron Blackburn, Lord Chamberlain and the closest advisor to the Queen, and Lady Fleur, his wife.
It is great to hear how it is going in the challenge for you, M3g7e and louhema! I am certainly enjoying it, although I do not have as much time as I'd like to play, of course!
Cheers, Vllygrl

I'm Still here!!!

I took a break from simming, I was so sad from all my wives dying.

I'm going to try and start up my Warwickshire hood from scratch (again). It always takes me a few attempts to really get settled into a challenge.

Vllygrl THANK YOU for your tracking record! I've been trying to keep track in a notebook, and it always gets messy. You're idea of a convent with marriage ready women is PERFECT! One of the reasons I stopped playing is because I was afraid a favourite sim was going to die in childbirth, and her babies were going to starve to death.

Happy Simming Everyone!!

You're welcome, Cococure! Glad they are useful! I too have had to restart the neighbourhood set-up once because I didn't like the 'hood terrain I initially used -- too hilly and cramped. And like you, I also became discouraged by the number of deaths, a little hard to take! However, I realized that I could reduce it somewhat -- first of all, I was slightly misreading the odds when I rolled, so a few sims died perhaps "unneccesarily" (I called it plague), so I paid more attention to my rolls and that helped. Then I made darn sure that I got the midwife in quicker (tricky when pregnancies are accelerated -- you have to be on the ball!!!) and that has also increased my survival rate slightly, it all helps. And yes, the convent has been extremely useful! I figure once all the marriageable maidens are married off and I'm down to just Mother Superior, I will add a new batch of CAS maidens. Good to hear you are restarting, though, looking forward to hearing news from your new 'hood!
Vllygrl

Hi- I'm sort of a latecomer here, and I've never posted anything on this forum before, but this challenge looks interesting, so I'm considering giving it a go. I just need to know a couple of things. Is it possible to do this challenge in a non-historical, non-modern setting, and if it is and I do it, will I be chased off the board for not being medieval?

You see, I am A Simming Anomaly. The reason I Sim is to escape from Earth, not to recreate it, so I have personal rules against the use of Earth-settings (past or present) and human-looking Sims. (Vllygrl, if you are the same Simmer who played the Victorian Population challenge last year, you might already know that- I'm VT- remember me? Hi!) But I do like the idea of this challenge, and I certainly have the dice for it- over 100, to be exact, including a giant gold d20 named King Shiny. (yes... weird girl names her dice.)

If it is possible to play this challenge in a VT Original Setting, please let me know so I can try it. I'd also like to know if VT Original Settings are welcome here or not. If they are, I'll gladly share my stories here, if not I'll keep it to myself.

- VT (yes I know my username doesn't have a T in it, but that's the name I've been using online for four years now)

I'm still setting mine up because I keep getting distracted and I have pretty full professional calendar at the moment, but I'm doing a non-Earth, non-historical, and rather industrial (in part) version of this challenge, and no-one's run me off yet. It requires a bit of tweaking here and there, but I do think it's very doable. If you scan up the thread a bit, you'll see something of what I'm doing, and if you decide to go ahead with this, maybe you and I can compare notes and share modification ideas.

I hope you decide to give it a go! :D

OK, this challenge is now Priority 3 of 4 on my Sim Project List. Hopefully by the time I get the Priority 1 and 2 projects finished, I'll have some clue about exactly what I want to do with it. Just so you know, that might take a while- I get distracted too. A lot.

Good to know there's someone else out there with similar ideas to mine. The more challenges I do, the less I feel like the weird Simmer nobody likes.

- VT