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Original Poster
#1 Old 12th Oct 2010 at 11:50 PM Last edited by M3g7e : 20th Dec 2016 at 7:00 PM.
Default Warwickshire: A Renaissance Challenge, Happy Holidays Gift!
Update: Warwickshire 3.5--Happy Holidays Gift Now Available!

Hi, All,

I come bearing gifts! This holiday season I bring you a mini update to the Royal Appointments system. From the beginning, the Royal Appointments chart has bothered me and been rather a nuisance. So why not overhaul the whole entire thing? Well, last summer I began to do just that! From the way that royal appointments are bestowed right down to what they are in themselves, I started to painstakingly rewrite each one. This process required rethinking the entire social structure of the economy, so that it would fit into the changes designed for the new trading companies, and so forth. As with everything Warwickshire, I may have bitten off more than I can chew, but I have decided to release some of the work so that you may enjoy it this holiday season. I encourage everyone to take a look, playtest it, and share your play experiences with the forums. I sincerely hope you will enjoy this addition to Warwickshire. The royal appointments have been an underused element in Warwickshire, but they should be central to how your sims progress up the social ladder. So, please Enjoy!!

Happy Holidays Gift


Hi, All,

I come bearing yet another, slightly more complete Teaser of 3.0--let's call this Teaser 2.5, shall we?

Why upload another teaser? Why indeed! Well, here's the truth: I have been working on Warwickshire in one form or another for the past 18 months or so. Much of what I've been doing in that time is research and painstaking playtesting of the parts of the challenge you haven't yet seen. Because the wait has been monumental and eternal, I have decided to once again release everything that I have.

So what's new this time?

Chapters 1 through 4 are now finished--what you have here are the final versions of those chapters.

Chapter 3 now includes charts to link moral alignment with Clerical and Royal favor. This completes the character alignment system, making it possible to give rewards and favors to sims with good moral alignments who have high clerical favor, and to sims with evil moral alignments who have high royal favor, which is integral to the overall alignment system in the game.

The behaviors and outcomes charts have been revised yet again to smooth the amounts of RFP and CFP earned for various behaviors, and to make it simpler for sims with neutral moral alignments to earn CFP. It is also easier now for sims with evil alignments to have high RFP since more neutral behaviors earn higher RFP now.

Chapter 4 now includes even more Royal Appointments. The largely redundant and laborious section detailing the definitions of these positions has been excised.

The section on creating and maintaining alliances is included.
The section on Clerical Favor and how to use it is included. In addition to the indulgences from 2.0, there are now new ways to use Clerical Favor, including prayers, confessions, and offerings. Offerings allow sims to convert RFP, CFP, or simoleons into other denominations, as well as allow sims to donate remaining RFP, CFP, or simoleons to the Church upon their decease.

Endless tweaks to make the entire work more readable and internally cohesive. While I am sure that there are still some incorrect page references due to additions in chapters 3 and 4, all page references have been endlessly checked with nauseating frequency and mind-numbing meticulousness. Seriously, I am going to lose my mind on checking page number references.

Still under construction:
Chapter 5, Law and Order:
The second half of the chapter on court cases is next on the docket to be rewritten. Expect the addition of lawyers and judges, along with the process to try the cases that are given in the first part of the chapter. If I finish this chapter by the end of summer, I will be beyond thrilled.

Chapter 5, Economy:
Still under construction. Period.
What's done here (that you don't yet have): charts for the trading companies. There is an entire system for setting up your trading company and expedition to the new world. These charts include:
  • Sailing Chart, for weather and climate conditions
  • Navigation Chart, for knowing where you're going ...
  • Supply Roll Chart: for knowing how much stuff you got
  • Damage Roll Chart: to see if you sunk and what not
What's not done? The chapter needs to be written ....

If anyone wants to playtest the trading companies, PM me and I'll make those charts available to you. But be forewarned, these are still in beta form, and there is really NO explanation for them yet. I'll give you the basic instructions, and I'd appreciate feedback on how the playing went. Please--serious players only, given my time constraints (summer is SOOO short!).

That's it for now.

Here's Teaser 2.5

Update: Warwickshire 3.0--An EVEN MORE COMPLETE Teaser Now Available!: This is Warwickshire 3.3.4, Teaser 2.0!!!

Hi, All!

If you've been reading the thread, you know that I worked on Warwickshire all summer long, and made some serious headway, but what with life and murder mystery party writing, I was not able to get the entire 3.0 finished. Alas, once again learning how not to bite off more than I can chew ...

So, after months of deliberation and general nail-biting, I have finally convinced myself to upload a second, even more complete teaser. Really, I think this version is just going to undergo a slow, torturous release while I slog through the most difficult bits to write. I remain ever indebted to the best simmers on the internet who test-play this challenge for me and let me know how goes it. Your feedback and advice have been invaluable and are the only reason I stay with this monumental undertaking.

Here's a quick rundown of what's new here ...
Chapter 3 has finally been finished. I know, I know ... and that was the one we already thought was done already. But now we have Ethical Alignments in addition to Moral Alignments, and a full system in place for how the two work together, and for how alignment is related to aspiration. The ties to the Law and Order section are still under construction, so bear with me there--but let us just say that there are rewards and consequences in place for every possible combination of alignment and aspiration, giving you an even richer context for story development and world building.

Chapter 5 is half-written. The opening half of the chapter details violent crimes and some civil crimes. You now have at your disposal the means to create a band of thieves, or a brutal murderer. Suicides are given here, as well as poisoners, and all manner of manslaughter. This section was heavily researched, though you may not always notice it in the end product. Further, you have here two civil misdemeanors--the family and knowledge crimes.

Numerous fixes have been made all over the entire document to clean up faulty page number references and dead ends. There is also a pretty cool flowchart for the education paths open to sims of every class.

Lots of other places, too numerous to mention here, have undergone smoothing and general revision to clarify original intent and/or to improve game mechanics overall.

So what are we STILL waiting for???

The front matter is woefully blank, because this stuff has to be done last. Sorry.
Chapter 4 is still only half-written: we are waiting on alliance formation and maintenance. This is probably going to work like indentures, but still it hasn't been finished.
Chapter 5 is missing the Romance crimes, and the court cases. On the upside here, you can still use 2.0 for these.
The appendices have not been written. Yep. That's pretty sad, but true.
There is still a need to overhaul some of the royal appointment descriptions, and I think there is at least one of those charts that needs some revisiting ... again use 2.0 for this if it looks incomplete to you.
And the Glossary and Index--in other words the back matter. Both are woefully incomplete. And are going to take serious amounts of time to cross-reference and get this right. It has to be done dead last, even after the front matter.

So there's that--the full disclosure! I am in the final throes of the fall semester, and my grades are due on Dec. 23. After Christmas, guess what I plan to be doing???

And now on to the Download!
Warwickshire 3.3.4 Teaser 2.0!
Finally, after months of revision, I am pleased to give you a Teaser version of Warwickshire 3.0. Seriously, I had no idea what was in store for me when I reopened Warwickshire and began working through the changes I had in mind. Though this is still a teaser version, you will find a nearly complete revision of the entire challenge--practically everything but the last chapter is here.

What's new in Warwickshire 3.0?
For starters, there is a new class station: the freeman, along with new rules for indenture and investiture, to create new opportunities to move up and down the class structure. The rules of indenture offer you an interesting and challenging means to buy your way out of servitude and advance from serf to freeman to peasant.
The new health system allows you to give every sim in your neighborhood a health score, and to incorporate diseases, doctors and more to manage the health of your sims.
Childbirth mortality and morbidity is fully integrated into the new health system, and incorporates the midwife as a healer.
You will also find an entirely new way to determine life paths, with multiple education options for young people of every class station.
Arranging marriages now works as a series of negotiations from betrothal to engagement, and finally to marriage.
There are many new behaviors and outcomes added to increase ways to earn and lose royal favor and clerical favor.
Royal favor points can be collectively amassed by fiefs and by alliances, allowing for the creation of powerful forces which can ally together to reap political benefits, or even to overthrow the monarch.
There are many, many other changes too numerous to list here, which improve the overall playability and flexibility of the challenge as a whole.

Still to come:
"The Self-Sustaining Economy," which is set to appear at the end of Chapter 2 has yet to be written. This section will include suggestions for how to have goods circulate within the neighborhood and to circumvent the get-rich-quick schemes of the silent EAxis corporation that currently runs the game's economy. It is a long standing peeve of mine, and one I have been working to get around.
The character alignment system will receive some further treatment in the full version to allow for a dual axis character profile: to the currently existing moral code, an ethical code will be added that will allow players to complicate their characters further.
"Creating and Maintaining Alliances," in Chapter 4 is still under construction. This was the original reason for me to revise the challenge. Little did I know that it would require so much work to get to the point where I could make this addition possible. This revision has almost gotten the better of me multiple times. I am working on this, and hope to have it out soon. (In the meantime, send some good energy my way that my rebuild of Warwickshire, which is currently underway goes smoothly so I can actually do some playtesting of this section!)
"Waging War," also planned for Chapter 4 is still under construction. This section will complete the plans for allowing fiefs to take over other fiefs and to give fief-holders the ability to increase their titles and landholdings.
Chapter 5, "Law and Order" is not yet written. In this chapter, all of the criminal activities, court cases, and outcomes will be given. Some of this will be a revision of contents from 2.0, but there are numerous additions that will appear, which are designed to make play more flexible and player controlled.
And the Glossary ... which is woefully incomplete ... a major overhaul is planned for it in the full version.

And now ... on to the Download!

Warwickshire 3.0 Teaser

Important Update: Corrections Pending to 2.0
Page Number Corrections for 2.0. I will get a revised version up as soon as possible. Meanwhile, if you've already downloaded the .docx version, you may make the following changes yourself. There are a number of incorrect page number references through the document. Here are the ones I've seen so far:

References to the Success & Failure chart in the Behaviors & Outcomes charts (pp. 47-65) should direct to p. 66, NOT p. 58.
Under Upgrading Existing Townships, p. 23, it should direct you to the Tax Code on pp. 25-27.
Under Rules Governing Adoption/Recognition of Bastard Children, p. 43, it should direct you to "The Adultery Case," p. 59 NOT p. 52.
In the Knowledge Chart, p. 51, it should direct to the Special Rules for Supernaturals on p. 52 NOT p. 44.
On the Fortune chart, for Tax Evasion, use Success & Failure chart, p. 66
On the Fortune chart, for Theft and Embezzlement, use the special formulae given on p. 64
Under The Perquisites for Royal Appointments, p. 71, it should direct to the Tax Code, pp. 25-27.

Notice: After weeks of revision, Version 2.0 is now available! With revisions too numerous to detail here, 2.0 is a fully integrated, complete playstyle designed for use with every expansion pack of The Sims 2, though players of every game configuration will find the challenge open to suit their particular needs. Now released in two file formats, PDF and .docx (MS Word 2010). The .docx file is fully navigable with a navigation pane that allows you to move quickly from one part of the document to another.

Notice: Minor Edit! Somehow ... I don't know how ... I noticed that p. 24 in the original upload is blank ... and it should not be. It is a no more than a very minor irritation since it does not even make the table of contents incorrect, but it is rather foolish anyway. So, I have repaginated the entire document AGAIN and here it is. HUGE Apologies for the inconvenience if you've already downloaded--just redownload. I don't anticipate any other changes.

Download the PDF file .

Download the docx file

Notice: Version 2.0 coming soon. Version 1.2 has been reuploaded in the meantime, since the wait may be a few weeks more ... Meanwhile, check out the 2.0 Teaser HERE .

Please check my profile for my policies before uploading a version of this challenge anywhere on the web.

New Features in 2.0:
  • Adoption now available!
  • A new class: Outlaw/Outcast, level 0
  • A new tax code, with lots of player options to simplify or complicate your accounting ... and your sims' lives
  • More fully integrated roles for women, including an heiress title, along with more options for life paths and education
  • More options for personalizing your game--and to give players the opportunity to decide how much randomization or control is right for them
  • A Glossary of Terms used in the challenge
    and more!

Take me to the Teaser!

The Updated and Revised Rules are now available.

What Has Changed:
  • More specific rules for Class Stations. I have divided the Merchant Class into three echelons to make it slightly easier to establish this class in your neighborhood.
  • A New Knowledge Behavior: Alien Abduction, thanks go to the Almighty Hat for her Awesome Hacks! (Thanks Hat!!!)
  • Education Options now for Males and Females, to give more medieval authenticity to the game
  • A new age roll at the end of childhood, so that sims will need to survive infancy, toddlerhood, and childhood.
  • More Careful Description and discussion of Arranged Marriage, including Bride Price and Dowry
  • Women and Social Standing: a new section, giving property rights rules for women, among other things
  • A Provision for Robust v. Sickly Children to address health and physical ability after an age roll for children and below
  • Eccentricity defined (which I forgot to do the first time round: Thanks Louhema for the Reminder!)
  • More Popularity Behaviors, including consequences for Enemies, Throwing Parties, etc
  • More Fortune Behaviors, including Top Level Business ownership, etc
  • More Knowledge Behaviors, incl. teaching Toddler Skills,etc
  • Major Changes to Natural Chance of Success for getting caught doing evil behaviors. More leniency now to encourage some bad behaviors to emerge. (Yay!))
  • More RFP and CFP to be earned for raising large families--because this is really very hard to do.

Hello, Fellow Simmers,

Over the past few weeks, I've been turning over a question in my mind, one which has led to the writing of this little challenge. The question, simply put, is whether one can ever get ahead in life while following the rules; that is, is it ever possible to change one's lot in life without playing the system? Or must one cheat to get ahead? To get at this question, we shall begin in the Renaissance, a time of new beginnings, when the rise of the individual begins to assert itself with ever greater force against the backdrop of a new secular humanism that permits the question to be posed in the first place.

Here is the Scenario:
The year is 1600. You are a Serf, eking out a hard existence from the soil. Though your life is hard, you love your country and your King, and believe that your place in the Natural Order of things is ordained by God. If He wills it, a Serf who is hard working may be smiled upon by Divine Providence and given a higher place in the Natural Order of life, though it has never occurred to you, until now, to question your place in the system. However, the world is changing. Everywhere, the foundations of feudalism are crumbling. New possibilities are arising for those who are enterprising enough to seize them, but these people, many believe, threaten the Natural Order and create chaos. Still, others maintain that man’s destiny is not written in the stars, that one must seek opportunity and advancement where it presents itself—that a New World is emerging, one which favors free thought and trade and which rewards those who seek to better themselves. These self-made men rationalize that the ends justify the means, and that Nature’s laws reveal that there is a Divine plan for all of creation, but one which rewards those who study her mysteries and who exploit her resources for personal gain. For these new thinkers, Knowledge is Power, and the keys to power are through Intrigue and Cunning. Nature, according to them, is a vast repository of resources, ripe for the taking, and they are not willing to sit contentedly by in their “rightful” place and accept their place in the “Natural Order.” Such antiquated thinking is for them a nuisance, a foolish belief of their elders. For you, you’re not sure about all of this. There have been wild moments, when working the soil or fishing in the Lord’s ponds, that you’ve fancied yourself a Duke, but such nonsense didn’t amount to much of a real concern. Now, as you see the world changing about you, you consider whether you’d like to change your position in society.

This is where the challenge begins. To successfully complete the challenge, you must see a family rise from the level of Serf to Duke within ten generations. To answer the question whether it is possible to succeed without cheating, you will find multiple ways to play the system in order to get ahead more quickly. Death, disease, and general difficulty will be your constant companions, regardless of how virtuous or evil you plan to play the game.

I realize that other challenges exist with historic themes and which address issues of class and hierarchy; however, I think that you will find this challenge to be materially different from the rest here. Both the ultimate goal and the general mode of play differ substantially from currently existing challenges.

I have attached a PDF of the challenge since it is too long to post here. You will find right away that the challenge depends upon your having a large degree of latitude in managing the romantic attachments and general life choices of your simmies, so a few hacks will be necessary to complete the challenge as written. These include, but may not be limited to, the following:

Simlogical School Table
the SimBlender
Autonomous Casual Romance
Inteenimator--or other hack that allows teen pregnancy and miscarriage (optional, but highly recommended)
MATY, Squinge's Nursing Babies Hack (Highly Recommended)
Boiling Oil's Nursemaid Hack (as a nice addition to Squinge's Nursing Babies Hack)
Inge’s Teleporter (Highly Recommended)
Piou Piou’s Realistic Sickness (Highly Recommended)
Merola's Mind Control Mirror (Highly Recommended)

Additionally, you may use any other combination of hacks that give you increased control over your sim's lives, but you must record your use of them according to the Behaviors & Outcomes chart--if you violate the "Natural Order," you have cheated the system and must account for that "evil" behavior somehow.

Please post your pictures and family stories--I am quite interested in how this all turns out. Also, feel free to send a barrage of questions my way--some of the details may conflict, and I am still working this whole thing out, so don't be shy about asking. I look forward to hearing your stories

Version 1.2 Available Here
Version 2.0 PDF Availablehere
Version 2.0 .docx Availablehere
Mad Poster
#2 Old 13th Oct 2010 at 12:08 AM
Could you upload the PDF to a site where you don't have to sign up to download stuff?? I'd really like to have a look, but I don't want to sign up to something I'll never use again.... How about using Mediafire or something?
Original Poster
#3 Old 13th Oct 2010 at 12:53 AM
Let me know if it doesn't work--I'm pretty new to filesharing, so I may not have it just right yet. Thanks for letting me know about KeepandShare
Mad Poster
#4 Old 13th Oct 2010 at 12:56 AM
I managed to download it, I'm reading it now :-) Thanks for putting it on Mediafire! :-D
Field Researcher
#5 Old 13th Oct 2010 at 1:00 AM
I'm worried that InTeen will conflict with some of the other listed hacks (because from what I've heard, it conflicts with next to everything). Also, where can I get the Realistic Sickness hack? I can't find it at MATY.
Mad Poster
#6 Old 13th Oct 2010 at 1:14 AM
I don't have the simblender, the mind control mirror or the sickness hack in my game, but I have all the others (including Inteen) with no conflicts detected so far.
Original Poster
#7 Old 13th Oct 2010 at 1:46 AM
I've been using all listed hacks together for a long while now with no issues--let me know if you have trouble.

Realistic Sickness is available here:
Undead Molten Llama
#8 Old 13th Oct 2010 at 10:04 PM
Quote: Originally posted by potatoehead
I'm worried that InTeen will conflict with some of the other listed hacks (because from what I've heard, it conflicts with next to everything). Also, where can I get the Realistic Sickness hack? I can't find it at MATY.

InTeen will conflict with things if you don't RTFM and don't install it properly, sure, but if you do RTFM and pay attention to what you're doing and possibly get rid of a few hacks that do the same things that InTeen will do, it works just fine, even with other hacks. It's just not one of those little hacks that you can just plop in your Downloads folder and you're done, is all.

That said...I love historical stuff, and I love challenges with long and complex rules, so this looks like something that's right up my alley. And I DO have that user account on my comp that's chock full of medieval/renaissance CC... *sigh, headdesk* Just what I need... Don't know that I'll play it just yet because I'm trying to concentrate on my BACC and am also on something of a creating kick. (My lack of nice tile floors has reached a point where I have to do SOMETHING about it, apparently.) But when I get an itch to start a new hood...yeah. Thanks for putting together this obviously well-thought-out challenge! :D

I'm mostly found on (and mostly upload to) Tumblr these days because, alas, there are only 24 hours in a day.
Muh Simblr! | An index of my downloads on Tumblr.
Mad Poster
#9 Old 13th Oct 2010 at 10:10 PM
I've had a quick read through the challenge - boy it looks complicated!! But interesting! I shall probably give it a go, I expect I'll have questions but right now I'm studying for a statistics exam so I don't have time to read it thoroughly yet. Will let you know if I have questions, and when I start :-)

It looks pretty cool though, you've put a lot of thought into it that's for sure!
Test Subject
#10 Old 14th Nov 2010 at 12:56 PM
This challenge looks amazing - I've been playing TS2 since it was released, and this is exactly the sort of challenge I've been waiting for someone to create. It looks challenging but fun, and has enough structure that the game will always be entertaining (whilst at the same time easily adaptable to your own preferences.) It's really a shame you haven't received more feedback, because it honestly looks like the most enjoyable TS2 challenge ever. I think maybe you'd get more feedback if you uploaded it to something like Googledocs, as it'll let people look at the file without having to download it.

Haven't had a chance to play yet, so the only feedback I have is that I think it'd be helpful to add an explanation about how your presenting the rolls. At first I was very confused, although I eventually figured out that you probably ment.. um.. eg. 9/20 would mean roll 1d20 and numbers 1 - 9 is a success, and any other number is a failure?

I don't have access to my own computer at the moment, but I look forward to playing this in the future.
Test Subject
#11 Old 16th Nov 2010 at 2:45 AM
Just downloaded the 39 (!) page document, and what I've read looks pretty good so far. Sounds a lot like the RKC challenge but with a lot more structure. I'm really looking forward to reading all your hard work and trying it out!

Good Job and Thank you!
Test Subject
#12 Old 16th Nov 2010 at 4:16 AM
I've read through the document, and I've got a couple of questions, I'm sure I'll have more as time goes on

1. Can you explain the rolling system? Is it rolling with a 20s die/using a random number generator, and if your number is within the guidelines, you meet that requirement? (eg: Natural chance of survival for a male going from todlerhood to childhood, and did not have a midwife present, would mean any number from 1-13 means he survives, and 14-20 means he dies?)

2. Plot size
According to the table, a serf can have a plot size up to 9 squares, meaning he can live on a 3x3 plot (total 9) but not the 5x2 (total 10) Is this correct?
For the Nobility, the family them self must own a plot at least 20 units large (5x4), but they also preside over the lands of the families that live in their subhood? (eg, a knight can have up to 10 serfs under him, and a baron can have up to 2 knights under him?)

3. Net Worth
According to your chart, Peasant, and an esquire can have the same/similar net worth, but this doesn't seem right, can you clarify?

4. Moving up/Earning income
I'm not sure if this was covered, but how do Serfs and Peasants earn income? Once they've earned income, can they buy their way into a higher class, and how do they do about this?

5. Tithes and Taxes
Who pays/gets paid, and how is the money distributed?

That's it for now, but I'm sure more will come along!
Original Poster
#13 Old 17th Nov 2010 at 2:07 AM
Thanks for the interest--and the questions! Let me see if I can answer everything here. **Rolling up Sleeves, taking a sip of tea**

First, the rolls. I do recommend either a 20s die or a random number generator--I prefer the RNG since I tend to cheat with a die, especially where precarious sim lives are involved (did that roll really count? it sorta rolled off the table ... or, how could I get the same crappy number three times in a row??) At any rate, the numbers indicate the chance of success in this way: 13/20 means that you have to roll above a 7 for a successful roll, so little toddler tyke will die if he rolls a 5, but will survive if he rolls an 8 since 20-13= 7; hence 13/20 survivals, 7/20 failures. All of the numbers work this way, high numbers are good numbers, low numbers=bad outcomes.

Second, Plot Size. Sounds like you got that spot on--no changes. I was rather thinking that each subhood would be a fief in its own right--Dukes are the highest vassals of the King so they can have more lesser vassals under them. For this reason, a Duchy could have several barons, even an earl living in it--provided that there were the appropriate number of occupied lots to satisfy the requirements for those lesser vassals. Each fief would be tiered and hold any configuration of lesser fiefs that fit neatly inside it. However, a Barony would not have a Duke living it, and so on. All of this would mean that it would take a while to build a neighborhood up to the point that it would contain Duchies, since peerage titles must be purchased in order. The first subneighborhood would be a Baronetcy, but would become a Barony when the landholder purchased that title.

So, in thinking about neighborhood configuration: Let's say we have a a neighborhood with ten serfs, five peasants, six merchants, and 2 gentlemen living there. We would then have:
  • 5 Serfs: 3X3 = 9 X 5 = 45 Plot Squares
  • 5 Peasants (4X4 = 16 X 5 = 80 plot squres)
  • 5 Merchants (ave lot size) 12 X 5 =60 plot sqaures
  • 2 Gentlemen (ave lot size) 16 X2 = 32 plot squares
This all adds up to 217 Occupied Plot Squares for a Subneighborhood. This subneighborhood would then support up to four Knights, or two Knights and one Baronet. Now, if that Baronet eventually became a Baron, he would leave open a Baronetcy that one of those Gentlemen could purchase. The neighborhood thus grows from the ground up, rather than from the top down. This ensures that you won't have more nobles than peasants. Gradually, however, as neighborhoods mature, more titles will be earned and the neighborhoods will become gradually richer with time. What this means is that new titles only become available once a) the aspirant has the money/stature to purchase the title and b) the neighborhood is large enough to support the title. On another note, which I don't think I've specifically mentioned: owned community lots count toward the total number of occupied squares for a subneighborhood--but do NOT count toward the merchant's plot size--so a rich merchant can easily own up to five businesses or more and have a huge summer mansion.

Net Worth: Sorry for the confusion here: I meant that these titles Esquire and Gentleman need to purchased. The value indicated is the purchase price for entry into the class--the Lower Gentry. It does not indicate total net worth, which is likely to be quite a lot more. The same is true of the other numbers above--so the amount of $100K is paid to the crown to purchase a Barony, and so on. Now for the lower classes--a peasant is one whose net worth is less than $50K--once his total net worth is greater than $50K, he may start a home business or purchase a community lot, hence becoming a member of the bourgeoisie.

Earning Money: Serfs and Peasants primarily earn money through fishing and gardening. Both of these earning activities are considered taxable income. They may also Dig for Treasure (not taxed), marry for love--move in money from spouse not taxed, inherit money from a loved one--not taxed, or (my personal fave) they may even use the Gypsy lamp to wish for money--also, not taxed (they have a choice to either earn Royal Favor by giving it to the Crown OR keeping it for themselves). As stated above, once the family has earned a total net worth of $50K or more (incl. worth of the house and family funds), then they may start a home business or purchase a community lot. Though $50K sounds like a lot of money, it isn't actually hard to do if you have some sims die of old age or move in since these are not taxable events. The hardest part is not having the elder sims actually reach the natural end of their life since killing them with the Death Creator means no inheritance

So taxes and tithes: fun stuff. The taxes go to the Crown. Just deduct the funds from the taxpayer and add them to the King/Queen. What to do with the money: the King and Queen should use the money to pay their bills (the cost of running the kingdom), furnish their (many) mansions, palaces, resorts, castles, etc--whatever works, and generally look and be Rich. Hard Life, but someone's gotta do it. If you want to have socially responsible monarchs, they could do good things for their citizens like build Universities (build every lot needed with the Crown funds), Community Lots, etc. It is up to you. I've thought about creating some rules for Good Kingship and what happens if the people rise up (Les Mis anyone?)--but that's for another time, for now the King and Queen are essentially above the law and can do what they wish with the Crown Money. Let me know how it goes with your neighborhood--I'm interested in what they do with all the money, and how insanely rich they become.

Tithes go to the Church. Each subneighborhood will need at least one Monastery and/or one Convent. You will also likely need a community lot Cathedral to hold weddings, etc. Tithes are not required but they do increase your clerical favor points and can be beneficial in nontangible ways. As with Taxes, deduct tithes from paying family and add to either the Monastery or the Convent--or if you earn one, a powerful church figure, like an Archbishop, etc. Then, have the Church use the money however you think they would likely do so--either responsibly: maybe they help the poor? or start an orphanage, or a hospital ... or maybe they use it irresponsibly (use your imagination--and let me know!).

Looking forward to hearing how it all goes
Original Poster
#14 Old 17th Nov 2010 at 2:25 AM
Tizkopde: thanks for the good idea! I think I clarified the roll process in the earlier post--let me know.

Just added the PDF to Google Docs: here is the link:
Test Subject
#15 Old 17th Nov 2010 at 4:20 AM
Moar Questions!! I have them!

I think I've FINALLY got it, after mulling over it for hours and hours.

For some reason I kept thinking that this should be played as a legacy from the top down (Start with King/Queen, then move down), but now I understand that it should be played from the bottom up! I'm still a bit iffy on what separates a Serf from Peasant, and a peasant from the Bougoise.

1) According to your original table:
Serfs live on 3x3 lots, work the land, and have a family net worth LESS THAN 50k
Peasants live on 3x3, or 4x4 lots, also work the land , and have a family net worth MORE THAN 50k but LESS THAN 100k?
Bourgeois are sims who used to be peasants, but worked hard and gained a family net worth of MORE THAN 100k(?) and now own a business(?)
Your original table conflicts with your explanation in your last post, can you please clarify this (again, so sorry!) What is the difference between a Serf and a Peasant? All sims must start on a 3x3 lot, do they need to make enough money to move the family to a larger lot? How does a Serf become a Peasant?

2) You keep mentioning maintaining subhoods to allow for the Lower Gentry, Gentry, and Nobility to be landowners, but I'm not sure how to set this up, do you mean adding places like downtown and shopping districts, or having completely separate hoods. If you have your royal family in a completely separate hood from everyone else, then no one will ever me able to meet the Royal Family and marry into it.

So just to clarify (for the 11ty millionth time)
Start playing with your starter Sim (a Serf), on a 3x3 lot, net worth 20 - 50k.
Once the net worth is >50k you are upgraded to a peasant, and may move to a larger lot to eventually support a business.
First born son will carry on the family legacy and build up the family business, and eventually family net worth will be >100k.
Any other children of your starter sim will move onto their own lots and be Serfs and work the land (repeating process 1).
Your mainline/legacy family will continue to advance until family net worth >200k, at which point they can sell their businesses, move to a bigger house/lot, and purchase the 'Gentleman' title. At this point, your main/legacy sim can work outside the home.
Once family net worth is >200k again (since he gave 25k to the crown) he can purchase the 'Esquire' title.
Once family net worth >300k, he can purchase the 'Knight' title, move to a 5x5 lot, collect taxes on behalf of the crown, (keep 15% and pay the rest to the crown)

The purchase of higher titles depends on wither or not your main/legacy family has the funds and if there are enough serfs/peasants/merchants (technically relatives) available to be tenants.

Please let me know if I've got it right! It sounds so straight forward, but when you add in mortality and character alignment, all kids of hijinx can ensue!

REEEEEALLY lookinh forward to getting started with this this legacy!
Test Subject
#16 Old 17th Nov 2010 at 4:32 AM Last edited by Cococure : 17th Nov 2010 at 3:27 PM. Reason: Added a question
Question about midwives:

They are supposed to be summoned to all royal and Noble births. How do you get them to cuddle and talk to the newborn/ do crowd control if they are visitors. I know this is a technical question, is it enough for them simply to be present during the birth? Does the expectant mother need to know her personally and invite her over as a guest before she gives birth? If so, how do you facilitate the midwife knowing every noble/royal woman of childbearing age?

Question about Miscarriage

It's mentioned, but there is no rules governing when a miscarriage occurs, and how/when someone can obtain an abortion (Morbid I know, but ACR can cause some crazy things to happen)
Original Poster
#17 Old 17th Nov 2010 at 3:41 PM
I'm beginning to think my subpar math skills have sunk me again--(do I have my greater than/equal sign backwards?--it wouldn't be the first time!): I meant to indicate that Serfs are folks who have up to $20K and Peasants are folks who have up to $50K. The only difference between them is the monetary value of their total worth. Upgrading to Peasant means you could have a slightly larger lot, grow a bigger garden, and you have slightly improved chances for survival, so in all it's a better thing than to be a serf, but not much better--who aspires to be a Peasant?

And so, yes--Bourgeois sims are those who've amassed enough wealth, in excess of $50K, to start a home business or purchase a community lot--so everything you say is quite right, only the amounts are all lower.

So to recap: Total Worth:
Serfs: $0-20K
Peasants: $21K-$50K
Bourgeoisie: over $50K
For all ranks above this, the monetary amount denotes the fee for the title, not total family worth--since even a merchant can amass a great deal of wealth, but never become a Lord.

What I do about Midwives--I use a combination of Inge's Teleporter to summon her to the household where birth is imminent, and then control her with Merola's Mind Control Mirror. There is also the hack that you can use to tell her to clean/repair/garden by pookie51 (here at MTS: http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=420609). Since her main job is to attend to the needs of mother and infant, she should interact primarily with them--she can talk to the infant in mom's arms, or have mom put baby down and let midwife cuddle, etc baby. As long as she shows some sort of relationship with both, consider the birth attended. Then, let her stay for a while and do some doula care--i.e. cook and clean and whatever else. I had one midwife stay for two days--boy was she tired! She didn't even bother to say goodbye, just left in the middle of what she was doing one night.

Let me know if it doesn't make sense--brain's still a bit fuzzy this morning, only half way through my first cup of coffee, and maybe I should try to get back to work! :D
Test Subject
#18 Old 17th Nov 2010 at 3:48 PM Last edited by Cococure : 17th Nov 2010 at 4:07 PM.
Other useful Objects to download

Produce Packing Station - Packs produce in boxes of 12
Fish Packing Station - Packs fish in boxes of 12
Checkbook - Send Money to a sim

All are available from Sim Logical. The Packing stations make owning a business much easier, sims don't Humm and Haa over buying a single cucumber. It takes away any quality associated price changes, but you can adjust the price accordingly when you put it up for sale.

No20kHandouts from MATY - Sims moving out get a portion of the family funds, not 20k from the PTB

NoHumble from MATY (if you're like me and don't already have it) - Prevents Rod Humble from dropping off a computer.
Test Subject
#19 Old 17th Nov 2010 at 4:34 PM
Quote: Originally posted by M3g7e
I'm beginning to think my subpar math skills have sunk me again--(do I have my greater than/equal sign backwards?--it wouldn't be the first time!): I meant to indicate that Serfs are folks who have up to $20K and Peasants are folks who have up to $50K. The only difference between them is the monetary value of their total worth. Upgrading to Peasant means you could have a slightly larger lot, grow a bigger garden, and you have slightly improved chances for survival, so in all it's a better thing than to be a serf, but not much better--who aspires to be a Peasant?

And so, yes--Bourgeois sims are those who've amassed enough wealth, in excess of $50K, to start a home business or purchase a community lot--so everything you say is quite right, only the amounts are all lower.

So to recap: Total Worth:
Serfs: $0-20K
Peasants: $21K-$50K
Bourgeoisie: over $50K
For all ranks above this, the monetary amount denotes the fee for the title, not total family worth--since even a merchant can amass a great deal of wealth, but never become a Lord.

Yes, I do believe your signs are backwards. But now that we've cleared it up it makes sense!

I think the No20kHandouts should be a highly recommended hack then, because otherwise you'll never have a sim/family whose net worth is less than 20k. With this hack, sims who move out will be given money from the family funds (hopefully enough to buy the smallest lot) otherwise they'll live in the SimBin forever (which is not allowed!) So basically, make sure your family has more than 3k on hand when your sons move out!
Original Poster
#20 Old 17th Nov 2010 at 8:54 PM
Now, that is such a good point, and I one hadn't truly thought about ... but yes, I shall add it to the first major update, whenever that shall be. It definitely will make it more difficult for those second sons to get out of the house--lucky first borns who get to hang on!
Test Subject
#21 Old 19th Nov 2010 at 3:19 AM
Default I've started playing Warwicksire!

Just thought I'd pop in and share what I've done so far. Hopefully more people will want to jump on this bandwagon! I've included photos.

My Sim (Aiden Shaw) is my founder. He is a good fortune sim. The game started on the first day of fall. Before the end of the season he managed to start a kitchen fire and go into aspirational failure.

My first crop of tomato plants was alright. 16 of 20 plants survived. I harvested 10 and sold 6 (paid the money to the King).

When winter came along, I decided to find my sim a wife. Ida came along, and thanks to ACR they woohoo'd on the first date. I managed to get her to marry me on the second date. Winter went well, they had a daughter named Bonnie.

Then things just fell apart.

I planted the new crop on the first day of spring, but it snowed over night, and 3 of my plants died. 5 never produced fruit, which left 12 plants. 5 were sold, and the money sent to the King. I didn't get to harvest the rest because Ida and Bonnie were about to starve to death.

Neither of them had slept well over night, and both were in Hunger failure. I had Ida put Bonnie in the high chair for mush (because there are no fridges, and no bottles), but Ida was so hungry, every time she grabbed a bowl of mush, she immediately dropped it to complain about being hungry. Before I knew it, there were 5 bowls of mush strewn about and the fridge was empty. Ida finally gave up and went to bed (with both hunger and energy in total red) when the Social Worker walked in.

I quit without saving, (horrible I know), but I've learned some valuable lessons!

I don't know how far I've set myself back, but regardless, there's no going back now!
Test Subject
#22 Old 19th Nov 2010 at 12:33 PM Last edited by tizkopde : 19th Nov 2010 at 2:41 PM.
I've just started setting up this challenge I'm planning to have five couples: the royals, one noble couple, and three serf couples.

Storywise the world is in chaos - for many years the the world has had "peace" - a unifaction of many nations under one rule. With the leader and his line dead, the kingdom has shattered. Borders are redefined, land taken and retaken, changing rulers many times over. Not many turn their attention to the Coral Archipelago, but it would be foolish to presume that such would remain the case. Whilst the people of the Coral Archipelago keep their heads down and hope, the queen Honu Alcair and her husband [I can't remember his name] make preparations to ensure their little nation survives.

In terms of gameplay I don't plan to have religion, so certain things will be changed a tiny bit. Additionally I plan to have scenarios for the rulers that concern the welfare of the nation, rolling a dice for results, with every result having consequences for the kingdom. At the moment I only have fuzzy ideas, and they really are just for the sake of story. I'm mostly planning to do this because whilst the challenge has great rules that will create a really nice story, the rulers are sort of excluded! So this will just add a nice extra element if gameplay is going slowly.

Will give an update once gameplay gets underway. I still have to create two couples and build houses, both of which I tire of really really quickly, so it might be a little while.
Original Poster
#23 Old 19th Nov 2010 at 8:58 PM
Tizkopde, your story scenario sounds great--I'm really interested in the scenarios you write for the rulers, and the rules you follow. Can you post here, or create a challenge for them? I was thinking it would be good for this to have certain scenarios regarding the right to rule/legitimate authority, etc, but I didn't want to blur the focus, so haven't actually done any real thinking in that direction. I think, though, that there should be court intrigue and the possibility for coups, etc. to arise.

Cocure--Love, love, love the pics! I am working on a site for Warwickshire, my hood, when I get it up and running, I will post a link to it in my signature. Too overwhelmed right now with end of semester stuff to get much done sim-wise, so it will likely be after Xmas break starts before I get around to it. I have certainly had my share of simmies miserable thanks to this challenge! I think your story is probably pretty typical Just curious, what is the root cellar looking thingy inside? What does it do?
Test Subject
#24 Old 19th Nov 2010 at 10:32 PM
Update: Round two went much better, the whold crop survived, my sims have food, Bonnie is a child, and Ida is pregnant a second time. I don't accelerate pregnancies because I have the trips and quads hack (I like the element of surprise along with the added challenge).

The cellar is available HERE from MTS. You will NEED a nurse baby hack since you cannot get bottles from it (bottles require refrigeration, and there is no refrigeration in the 1600s). One is available from InSimenator. You will also have to make sure there's enough space for a high chair, since you will only be able to feed toddlers Mush.
Test Subject
#25 Old 20th Nov 2010 at 4:47 AM
Aw, you made me want proper rules for it! It's just a thought for now, I'm not sure exactly how I'd make it work.. if I do figure anything out I'll definetly post here. And I really look forward to your website!
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